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Jul - Projects and Creations - For those critiquing others work New poll - New thread - New reply
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Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 03-11-08 04:45:59 AM Link | Quote
It is easy to be critical of other people’s work. Particularly on the Internet, where we don’t meet those people whose work we criticise, it can be very easy to be harsh with critique.

Those that debunk others work don’t do any of the hard work that is involved in creating the work—but they are more than happy to tear it down, hardly lifting a finger.

Remember—even if you think that a piece is very flawed—the person who created it put a lot of time and effort into it and deserves better than a short, caustic remark about that work. This doesn’t help anybody to get better. In fact, it will usually simply make people defensive about their work rather than inspired to work on things.

So, remember:
  • to focus on something positive that the person did well;
  • to tell them why you like it / why it was done well;
  • to focus on one thing negative that is done wrong;
  • to explain why you don’t like it / why it was done poorly;
  • to provide some advice on what to do to correct what was done poorly.

This helps the original person to recognise both their strengths and weaknesses, and provides them with starting points to improve.


____________________
"...and, in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make"
Hiryuu

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Posted on 03-20-08 09:19:25 PM Link | Quote
Good luck there.

If I actual got good solid criticism on any artform or object I got then it was either because it was from one of two things:

1) It was something really simple of an object or concept to go 'oh you do this' or 'hey that was great' or something. That's easy to comment on from people overall.
2) It was something that someone did that was of expert level or they were really good and another expert was willing to help out that was interested or knew lots about said field. This is not an easy thing to comment on overall.

Fact of the matter is that, unless interest in it and technical knowledge about it is there, they won't be able to give decent criticism WHATSOEVER, let alone good.

Whether it's sims or writing (pretty much my only two) I only get a solid critique once in a blue moon. I'm usually the opposite though (ask BMS...).

____________________
Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 03-24-08 06:06:15 AM Link | Quote
I still think this information is worth having around.

Most of the stuff on this forum doesn't qualify as "critique" though, merely comment. However, there have been critiques on this forum and they tend to err towards being too negative. Ideally I would like to see this thread stickied so that people can consider these points before posting an unnecessarily harsh or counterproductive critique.

____________________
"...and, in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make"
Xkeeper

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Posted on 03-24-08 05:02:39 PM Link | Quote
The "be a bit nicer" comments would work better if it was more balanced overall. As it is, "critiquing"/commenting in general can be summed up with this handy chart I made in Paint in about 3 minutes:




I would be more open to making this an important thread (stickied, whatever) if it was becoming a problem. As it is, no more than one or two people actually give any negative feedback.

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Hiryuu

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Posted on 03-24-08 05:54:22 PM Link | Quote
You need to make a font of your Paint penciling, X.

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Sine
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Posted on 03-24-08 09:39:43 PM Link | Quote

Somewhat old wintery layout!
----------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Xkeeper
The "be a bit nicer" comments would work better if it was more balanced overall. As it is, "critiquing"/commenting in general can be summed up with this handy chart I made in Paint in about 3 minutes:

I dont particularly like the range of color used in that picture, and the graphical proportions do not do justice to the piece.

One thing people fail to realize is that a constructive negative comment does not mean the work itself is bad, nor that you are a terrible artist. Nobody is perfect, and in that sense fixing flaws only makes the piece better

NEGATIVE COMMENTS (when constructive) ARE ACTUALLY GOOD IN THE LONG RUN

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FOE! FOE! FOE! FOE!
Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
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RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 03-24-08 09:59:04 PM (last edited by Tarale at 03-24-08 08:16 PM) Link | Quote
The problem is, not many people here are constructive in their negative commenting either.

Okay, I'll be honest, I'm put off posting art here, because as far as this forum is concerned, I do everything wrong, and it's too demoralising. I'd rather post my art somewhere that provides a balanced critique, because I'm one of those people that needs things to be constructive, and I need to know what I'm doing right. Otherwise I won't know.

An example would be my HTML and CSS work. I've never done any study on it, I'm entirely self-taught, and from various sources on the internet. I truly do not know for sure what it is that I am doing right or wrong. I need to be told both! I don't have any study or "concrete" knowledge to fall back on, I need to be told.

Same goes for art, again I'm entirely self-taught. I think there are some things I do well, but I'm not sure exactly what those are; likewise I don't want to have the things I do wrong glossed over. Instead though, I only seem to get the things I do wrong picked up and then that tends to make me wonder what else I'm screwing up, and to be honest, lately, I think that's really just about all of it.

____________________
"...and, in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make"
Rena
I had one (1) message in Discord deleted and proceeded to make a huge, huge mess about how it was a violation of free speech and how moderators are supposed to be spam janitors and nobody should have the right to tell me not to talk about school shootings
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Posted on 03-25-08 06:25:40 AM Link | Quote
Jul - Post #2478 - 03-25-08 01:25:40am
I like your work, but I'm not generally the kind to reply just to say I like it. As for others, most of the comments I've seen about your posts were either positive or pointing out specific problems and how to solve them (i.e. font colour too close to background colour). I don't browse this forum a lot so I'm probably missing a lot of them...

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Xkeeper

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Posted on 03-25-08 07:05:23 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Tarale
as far as this forum is concerned, I do everything wrong, and it's too demoralising.

I am not so sure we are reading the same forum, Tarale.

I don't know where you get this "demoralizing"/"everybody hates me" attitude from, but I am very quickly getting sick of it.

You are imagining problems and faults where they simply do not exist. You are turning one or two negative comments into something that overshadows the 500 good comments you get.

That is all I am going to say on the matter. I did not bother to read any of the rest of your post; the first line said it all.

____________________
Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 03-25-08 09:55:08 AM (last edited by Tarale at 03-25-08 06:56 AM) Link | Quote
The comments that people have posted that have been positive haven't been positive in a helpful way though either. I mean, it's not that I don't appreciate them, I do it's just... they're not.... constructive.

And some of the negative comments have come from people who I'd hoped had more constructive input to offer. Because those people do have knowledge but tend to be overtly negative it does cause me to cast further doubt on my work.

*sigh* It's evident that you don't understand. You think it's all some thing where I hate myself. Things can be demoralising without causing a person to think that everyone hates them, or cause them to hate themselves.

I'm just frustrated because I'm not getting anything that helps me grow. My work has stagnated and I feel that I'm at a point where I need outside perspectives to move forward. But fine, dig your heels in about my request for better critique, I'll just stop posting my work here.

____________________
"...and, in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make"
Xkeeper

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Posted on 03-26-08 06:58:55 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Tarale
*sigh* It's evident that you don't understand. You think it's all some thing where I hate myself. Things can be demoralising without causing a person to think that everyone hates them, or cause them to hate themselves.

That was derived from your attitude in general and not just this thread.

I have seen you consistantly and predictably view anything slightly negative from another person get blown into a huge deal.

I haven't seen any "overly negative" comments here, either. Unless by some chance you were referring to mine, where (heaven forbid) I say what I didn't like about it and why I disliked them, as well as possible ways to fix them.

But whatever, really. I don't care if you decide to stop posting your stuff here; as of this thread, there have been a total of three (3) threads by you over well over half a year (9 months).

As I said before: you get one or two negative pieces of commentary and every single person who enjoyed your work instantly vanishes. The only thing you focus on is the single person who decided to actually post something other than "this art is great, I like it".

I think the problems you are imagining are your own and not this forum's. If you want specific critiquing, it's a better idea to ask specific people anyway, especially seeing how anybody who bothers to post something negative usually gets yelled at about it anyway.

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Posted on 03-28-08 06:11:08 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Tarale
The comments that people have posted that have been positive haven't been positive in a helpful way though either. I mean, it's not that I don't appreciate them, I do it's just... they're not.... constructive.

That's happened to me too, though with SMW hacks instead of art. Sometimes I'll post something and I'll either get "OMG WOW" or "do this, that, this, that, this, that, and this".

That gets annoying, but you can still make something out of it. If one or two people give a negative comment, then it doesn't mean at all that everyone hates it...it just means that it could use a bit of work. In this case, being told what is wrong and how to fix it would be useful, but if they do not say things like that, then just ask them about it.

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Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

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line 530 column 968 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 542 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 542 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 542 column 245 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 551 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 556 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 149 column 50 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 536 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 539 column 50 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 212 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 214 column 1739 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 214 column 1834 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 223 column 3112 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 247 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 275 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 306 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 308 column 1739 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 308 column 1834 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 308 column 2280 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 332 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 335 column 264 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 368 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 400 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 426 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 459 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 491 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 528 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 265 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md