Register - Login
Views: 99384430
 Main - Memberlist - Active users - Calendar - Wiki - IRC Chat - Online users
Ranks - Rules/FAQ - Stats - Latest Posts - Color Chart - Smilies		 04-24-22 03:04:19 AM
Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Any Taiketsu Columns leftovers in Columns III? New poll - New thread - New reply
Next newer thread | Next older thread
Sik

Level: 23


Posts: 105/107
EXP: 64768
For next: 2955

Since: 12-07-12


Since last post: 3.3 years
Last activity: 1.2 years
Posted on 12-29-18 08:37:03 PM Link | Quote
So, the other day some Japanese user uploaded a lot of Sega Game Toshokan videos, including footage of some games that still don't have any version dumped (of which ironically I first heard of a few days earlier, by looking at the Game Toshokan master list).

One of those games is 対決！こらむす /Taiketsu! Columns/ (skip to 7:18 to skip the download screen):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lhULpLL9Yw&t=7m18s

OK, we only have footage of this one… but I swear, wherever you look, it reeks of being a Columns 3 prototype (although it seems this person didn't know how to attack because they let the counter reach 30 and stay there…). It doesn't just share several graphics, it even has one of the tracks from that game (specifically "First Year of Genroku").

Anyway, I wonder if there are any leftovers from Taiketsu Columns in Columns III? Because it clearly seems to be based on the same code. The TCRF page only mentions an unused copyright notice and regional differences, but there could be more I suppose.


Also for the sake of comparison:

* Only mode seems to be 1 vs 1 (2P only). You can tell when they're switching controllers because one player will suddenly stop moving pieces :​P
* The above implies the AI didn't exist yet. Somebody suggested that maybe it didn't fit in RAM, but I pointed out that Columns I didn't have AI players (it didn't have a competitive mode) and Columns III wasn't out yet.
* Game seems to be best of 3 matches.
* There's still the large number counting up to 30 when you break jewels, implying attacks are present in this game… but the player here never uses them. Whoops.
* The special jewels from Columns III are here too.
* The interface is completely different (being themed after feudal Japan… and Sega's obsession with monkeys in tetris games), but the jewels and large numbers (the attack strength font) are the same from Columns III.
* As I said, one of the tracks from Columns III (First Year of Genroku) is here. The rest all seem new tho.

Basically it looks as if they took Taiketsu Columns and expanded it to get Columns III (which probably explains why it's Mega Drive exclusive, while II was skipped on Mega Drive…).
rabidabid
Member
Level: 27


Posts: 125/135
EXP: 102367
For next: 13792

Since: 08-25-10


Since last post: 24 days
Last activity: 6 days
Posted on 01-05-19 08:04:45 PM Link | Quote
It's definitely 2P only. It says next to the title in the menu a second controller is required. I suppose it's possible there could be leftovers in Columns III, though I dunno what considering it seems so limited. The file size (40714) is close-ish to the one for Putter Golf (39824), which is a 256KB ROM, so I'm guessing Columns is about the same size.



This is a great channel though, thanks for sharing! Lots of rare stuff in here for Sega Game Library and Satellaview.

This one goes through some Sega News Network stuff. The first group of stuff seems to be scripts for a "mail RPG" called Rasper Saga(?). Maybe like a collective choose-your-own-adventure for subscribers? I dunno.

The second group is general news. Includes listing of upcoming games with prices and release dates, a report on Shining Force, a report on that year's AOU Show, etc.

The third has more of that mail RPG stuff... I think one explains what it actually is. It also has stuff focusing on Sunsoft... including some small Lemmings and Gimmick art!
Sik

Level: 23


Posts: 106/107
EXP: 64768
For next: 2955

Since: 12-07-12


Since last post: 3.3 years
Last activity: 1.2 years
Posted on 01-08-19 03:13:03 AM Link | Quote
I think the mail RPG may have been straight up roleplay (it seems each user was assigned one character), though other than quickly looking at a glance I didn't really translate anything. Also sucks that act 3-1 was recorded but not 3-2…

Anyway, by 256KB you mean the ROM that's floating around? Those ROMs are misleading: the first 128KB are Game Toshokan itself (modified to boot directly into the game), the later 128KB contain the game data (and possibly extra code to make up for the lack of modem?). Also for some reason the Game Toshokan side is sometimes slightly different depending on the game, I guess they kept tweaking it until every game booted. Another weird side effect is that the ROM header for every of those games claims the modem is supported (because it's taken straight from Game Toshokan).
einstein95
Member
Level: 37


Posts: 318/318
EXP: 325757
For next: 12496

Since: 04-11-13


Since last post: 3.3 years
Last activity: 3.3 years
Posted on 01-16-19 03:40:55 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Sik
Anyway, by 256KB you mean the ROM that's floating around? Those ROMs are misleading: the first 128KB are Game Toshokan itself (modified to boot directly into the game), the later 128KB contain the game data (and possibly extra code to make up for the lack of modem?). Also for some reason the Game Toshokan side is sometimes slightly different depending on the game, I guess they kept tweaking it until every game booted. Another weird side effect is that the ROM header for every of those games claims the modem is supported (because it's taken straight from Game Toshokan).

I've had a look into these games in the past and what I know is that the first 128kb is Game Toshokan, like what you said, with the 2nd 128KB being the game data (null padded). The only difference for the Game Tosokan side between each game (didn't compare to the cart) is the checksum in the header

____________________
Sometimes I English very well but sometimes no.
Sik

Level: 23


Posts: 107/107
EXP: 64768
For next: 2955

Since: 12-07-12


Since last post: 3.3 years
Last activity: 1.2 years
Posted on 01-16-19 07:44:50 PM Link | Quote
The initialization code is different (although I don't remember the details), it pretty much has to be in order to run straight from the appended game rather than going to the modem detection then title screen. Also I imagine the EEPROM code is dummied out (Game Toshokan will crash with a red screen after about a second if the EEPROM doesn't work, which clearly doesn't happen here). Also I recall that a couple of the games had a different vblank vector, albeit I don't remember which ones.

I probably should look into these ROMs again some day (and Columns III while we're at it…).
Next newer thread | Next older thread
Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Any Taiketsu Columns leftovers in Columns III? New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

30 database queries.
Query execution time:  0.087725 seconds
Script execution time:  0.008205 seconds
Total render time:  0.095931 seconds


TidyHTML vomit below
line 1 column 1 - Warning: missing <!DOCTYPE> declaration
line 2 column 301 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 119 column 11 - Warning: <form> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 118 column 10 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 120 column 11 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 120 column 119 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 124 column 16 - Warning: plain text isn't allowed in <tr> elements
line 120 column 11 - Info: <tr> previously mentioned
line 125 column 68 - Warning: missing </nobr> before </td>
line 141 column 68 - Warning: missing </nobr> before <tr>
line 147 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 147 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 148 column 37 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&id"
line 147 column 217 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 149 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 149 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 149 column 91 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 156 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 158 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 176 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 177 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 182 column 488 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&t"
line 182 column 540 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&t"
line 202 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 204 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 222 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 223 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 231 column 621 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&index"
line 231 column 629 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&list"
line 238 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 240 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 258 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 259 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 266 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 268 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 286 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 287 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 293 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 295 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 313 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 314 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 321 column 17 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 321 column 17 - Warning: discarding unexpected <table>
line 324 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 324 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 324 column 91 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 326 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 326 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 327 column 37 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&id"
line 326 column 217 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 328 column 17 - Warning: discarding unexpected </textarea>
line 328 column 28 - Warning: discarding unexpected </form>
line 328 column 35 - Warning: discarding unexpected </embed>
line 328 column 43 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noembed>
line 328 column 53 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noscript>
line 328 column 64 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noembed>
line 328 column 74 - Warning: discarding unexpected </embed>
line 328 column 82 - Warning: discarding unexpected </table>
line 328 column 90 - Warning: discarding unexpected </table>
line 330 column 9 - Warning: missing </font> before <table>
line 342 column 25 - Warning: discarding unexpected </font>
line 351 column 37 - Warning: discarding unexpected </font>
line 329 column 1 - Warning: missing </center>
line 120 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 125 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 125 column 93 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 141 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 141 column 98 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 148 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 161 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 172 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 207 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 207 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 207 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 207 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 208 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 218 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 243 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 243 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 243 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 243 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 254 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 271 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 271 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 271 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 271 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 282 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 298 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 298 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 298 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 298 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 309 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 327 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 327 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 327 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 336 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 341 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 149 column 50 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 321 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 324 column 50 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 223 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 259 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 287 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 314 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 110 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md