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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Obscure DOS game D/Generation New poll - New thread - New reply
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almipopp
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Posted on 01-11-18 02:08:19 AM Link | Quote
Hey all
Have a small mystery here. I grew up with this game called D/generation it's an excellent isometric puzzle action game. Anyway, my faint childhood memories recalled some rooms which I could never find in the game when I replayed it recently. After much research I came across this: https://archive.org/details/msdos_D-Generation_1991#reviews
This seems to be an early version of D/Generation; specifically v 0.62, whereas whats typically available is v 1.0
This early version of the game contained all the missing rooms from my memories but there is still a small mystery.
At the end of the game there is a terminal where a password must be input but there is no place in the game that will tell you the password. Can someone hack both versions and find any missing content?
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Posted on 01-11-18 04:38:45 AM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 01-11-18 04:44:33 AM) Link | Quote
I know an Apple II prototype of the game was found recently. I also saw a comparison between the two versions online, but it wasn't in-depth. Really would be nice to see if someone can open up the game, though I suspect there could be compression in the way. On the plus size, it seems the executable is easy to decompress, as it uses PKLITE. Download UNP 4.12 here to do so. That works in DOSBox well, for the most part.

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almipopp
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Posted on 01-11-18 06:55:24 PM (last edited by almipopp at 01-11-18 06:58:00 PM) Link | Quote
That's news to me. Any info, footage or links for that apple II proto? All I can find is Robert Cooks twitter with 4 screenshots
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Posted on 01-12-18 04:36:55 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by almipopp
That's news to me. Any info, footage or links for that apple II proto? All I can find is Robert Cooks twitter with 4 screenshots


You can find the disk images for all four sides (A, B, C, and D) here

Judging by the 1989 date, it was likely scrapped due to the dwindling Apple II software sales. Do note that many of us aren't familiar with the Apple II at all, but we'll try our best to answer any questions.

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almipopp
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Posted on 01-12-18 04:46:48 AM Link | Quote
Hey thanks so much!!! This is awesome!
It works great in the applewin emulator although I am running into a consistent issue (3 times in a row so far) right near the end where the game either crashes or bugs out in such a way as to render finishing the game impossible. Ill update if i find a fix.
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Posted on 01-12-18 05:01:49 AM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 01-12-18 05:18:30 AM) Link | Quote
Neato. CiderPress is what I use to look into Apple II Disk images. As for the DOS version, it doesn't seem to use compression on many of the main game's files (like the player graphics), not even the backgrounds are compressed. The next step is to see if I can match the palettes and the graphics files.

CGA, EGA, and VGA files are graphics used by the game for the various graphics modes. CIM, EIM, and VIM are similar, but are used for static images rather than constantly updating ones. There's also TIM, which would probably be for Tandy machines.

SCN is probably where all the level data is.

Oh, and the keywords? The ones I found were war, death, pestilence, and famine.

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Posted on 01-12-18 01:51:17 PM (last edited by almipopp at 01-12-18 03:00:33 PM) Link | Quote
I've never used a program like ciderpress but ill give it a try thanks for the summary. Were those keywords for the regular ms dos one? The passwords were changed from v 0.62 to v 1.0. I gotta see if theres a way to pull the image off of that archive.org page i found. What program do you use to look into DOS games?

EDIT: Also been trying to look into the apple II disk images. I might be doing something wrong. all I se eis a bunch of hex. I don't know what to do with that.
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Posted on 01-12-18 03:09:19 PM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 01-12-18 06:10:22 PM) Link | Quote
I usually look at text through a hex editor (my choice is HxD), but you can also use an online one at hexed.it.

For graphics, if they're uncompressed, I can use pixeldbg, TiledGGD, or some equally suitable tool that view data visually. For compressed data, you dump the memory of the program first (you can do this with Task Manager) and view the data then.

For sounds and music, it depends on the file formats. If it's an uncompressed piece of audio though, I can usually grab Audacity and see if I can hear anything raw. As with compressed graphics, I try to see compressed data by dumping the program while it's running in DOSBox.

Speaking of which, DOSBox has its own debugger, but it's not very stable.

EDIT: How you are trying to open the images in Ciderpress? Because you should be able to open the disks as ProDOS disks and look at the contents there. It does seem to have a primitive disassembler too, though it's more useful to disassemble games for the Apple II on an actual machine.

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almipopp
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Posted on 01-12-18 07:49:27 PM Link | Quote
I just hit disk sector viewer, pick the .nib file and i tried picking a couple different option, proDOS among them. Again, not sure if im doing this right never done this before and it's what the tutorial said to do. I just get hex code though.
On a side note, I've been trying to look through the HTML on this page https://archive.org/embed/msdos_D-Generation_1991 which has DGEN V 0.62. to find the game file and save it. I'm finding a couple references to "D-Generation_1991.zip" but have not been able to save it. Archive.org seems to be using a DOSBOX loader I wonder if it's even possible to extract the file just by looking at the source...
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Posted on 01-13-18 02:35:33 AM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 01-13-18 03:18:22 AM) Link | Quote
Oh crud, I forgot, this is a .nib file. They are pains in the butts to work with precisely because there aren't many programs that can do anything useful with these files. In that case, you'll have to see if you get in the Apple II code monitor and do something from there. Assuming it can, considering games would sometimes abort if you attempted to view that. Some help can be found here.

The most useful advice I found regarding nib files was this and it's honestly a doozy. I got a hold of the prototype stored on there, btw. Will be updating this topic soon on anything interesting.

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Posted on 01-13-18 03:35:08 AM Link | Quote
You da man!!!!
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Posted on 01-13-18 05:39:43 AM Link | Quote
Some differences in the prototype...

The titular D/Generation has a different look, making him look more human and less like a bioweapon. Not sure if he is in the game itself without hacking, but...

Final version...



Proto version...



The intro graphics, plus the backgrounds for many of the levels, are missing.

For the passcode...

the final has

user name: .seth
passcode: .ostrich

but the prototype has
user name: .freeman
passcode: .ascats

There's also these warnings, which aren't in the final game...

Contamination Seal Broken!
Thermonuclear Self-Destruct Engaged.
%d minute%s until thermonuclear detonation
Blammo!

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Posted on 01-13-18 03:04:14 PM (last edited by almipopp at 01-13-18 04:10:44 PM) Link | Quote
Nice! yes Freeman and ASCATS is explicitly given to you ingame. D/Generation is in the game but it's a bit tricky to get to him. The devs tried to cutoff access to one of the top floors with a locked door that has no key but if you happen to have a bomb item you can just blow it up and continue. You need to lead him into an ionization chamber, lock him in, then put a password into a nearby terminal to kill him. That's the password that's never given to you and if it's not in the game files I guess it's not been implemented yet.
I did beat the Apple II version. Just got it to not crash somehow it had a similar ending sans the terminal. Then it takes you up a floor to a landing pad that says "end".
Incidentally with the proto I am remembering that the D/gen is affected by any items you carry, shields and freezers. Might be able to play with him and figure out what is behind him where the exit is in the final.
Also, may I ask how you got your hands on the proto? I'd love to play it without having to do it on archive.org.
If I figure out how to look at tiles like that I'd love to make a proper page on tcrf for D/generation.

EDIT: I found a teleport dev command in the proto. Hit alt C and it will ask for a scene. put in a number and press enter. it will ask side? type left or right. Scene 114 will take you right to the end.

EDIT 2: Some things might be stored in memory because if you just keep warping to a bunch of different rooms you can occasionally get some weird messed up ones. Fun! Also, scenes 102 through 106 seem to be unused rooms that crash the game!
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Posted on 01-13-18 03:31:51 PM Link | Quote
Here's the prototype in question. It shouldn't be too hard to view the tiles, as most of them are uncompressed and can be viewed easily if you have the proper tools.

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Posted on 01-13-18 03:43:49 PM Link | Quote
Thanks so much! Really appreciate all your help!
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Posted on 01-13-18 04:59:04 PM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 01-13-18 05:41:06 PM) Link | Quote
No problem. Some more things in the prototype...

Ctrl + A refreshes the screen of debug prints and restarts the level. Ctrl + O seems to do the same thing.
Ctrl + B shows some random bytes, presumably that of the level layout.
Ctrl + C allows one to change the color of the player's avatar.
Ctrl + D runs a random demo.
Ctrl + W allows one to record a demo, though this glitches the graphics redrawing routines, making it hard to play.

Alt + C allows the player to jump to scenes. (You've already found this one) Don't use any of the other debug controls before using this or else the game will crash. Interestingly, the text for this is still in the final game, but unused.
Alt + O restores a saved game.
Alt + S saves the game.
Alt + T shows the player's coordinates.
Alt + Z prints how much base DOS memory is left.

In the intro level, rather than using a jetpack to enter, they use a rope ala Elevator Action.

This demo has no AdLib support. PC speaker is all you get.

The SAV.DAT file is three bytes shorter than the final version.

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Posted on 01-13-18 06:28:12 PM Link | Quote
Awesome those are some great finds!
Any chance yo can point me to some tutorials for pxeldbg and/or TiledGGD?
I don't seem to be opening the files properly I'm getting a bunch of jumbled pixels and I'm not sure what I might be doing wrong.
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Posted on 01-13-18 06:39:27 PM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 01-13-18 06:57:41 PM) Link | Quote
To open the graphics files in PixelDbg...

1) Open the VIM or VGA file in question in PixelDbg
2) Load the appropriate palette file, which are PAL files in the game's data.
3) The RGBA bits should be set to 6, 6, 6, and 6 respectively. Toggle the R,G, and B bits on, while the A bit is off.
4) The ordering of the RGBA bits should be R - 1, G - 2, B - 3, and A - 4.
5) Tweak the width of the pixel data, as it's usually 320px wide for the static pics and 8-32 px for the sprites. Keep in mind sprites of varying widths are stored inside.

A similar procedure can be done with TiledGGD.

1) For the image, set the bits per pixel to 8, 3 bytes per color, and . For the palette, the skip size is set to 1 colour, the endianness is big endian, and the colour order is set to RGB.
2) Load the appropriate graphic (VIM or VGA file) in TiledGGD, with appropriate palette file also loaded (PAL file).
3) Use the arrow keys to resize the image appropriately.

Keep in mind PixelDbg has no zoom-in function. And either way you do it, you will have to manually tweak the brightness with something like GIMP's Normalize function, as it's way too dark normally. Here's what it should look like if done correctly.



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Posted on 01-13-18 07:30:39 PM (last edited by almipopp at 01-13-18 07:49:12 PM) Link | Quote
That's very helpful thanks.
Was only able to do partial constructions until I saw what you did there. So you just have to guess what pallet goes to which file?

EDIT: I see many file name matches never mind. Im getting backdrops to work correctly still having trouble with sizing some character sprites and stuff. ill figure it out
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Posted on 01-13-18 07:50:34 PM Link | Quote
Usually not. Most, if not all, of the sprites use DGEN.PAL, as does BACK1.DAT. Most of the static screens use PAL files of the same name (i.e. CRED.VIM uses CRED.PAL as its palette).

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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Obscure DOS game D/Generation New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
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line 332 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 332 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 332 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 332 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 343 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 359 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 360 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 360 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 360 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 360 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 361 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 371 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 386 column 1157 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 394 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 394 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 394 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 394 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 405 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 420 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 421 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 421 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 421 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 421 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 422 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 432 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 441 column 847 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 449 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 449 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 449 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 449 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 460 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 474 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 475 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 475 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 475 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 475 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 476 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 486 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 499 column 311 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 503 column 418 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 523 column 982 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 531 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 531 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 531 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 531 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 542 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 564 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 566 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 576 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 583 column 332 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 591 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 591 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 591 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 591 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 602 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 616 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 617 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 617 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 617 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 617 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 618 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 628 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 653 column 1201 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 661 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 661 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 661 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 661 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 672 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 688 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 689 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 689 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 689 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 689 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 690 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 700 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 723 column 1323 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 723 column 2042 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 731 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 731 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 731 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 731 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 742 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 759 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 760 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 760 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 760 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 760 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 761 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 771 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 778 column 288 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 787 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 787 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 787 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 796 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 801 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 781 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 207 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 233 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 259 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 289 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 316 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 348 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 376 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 410 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 437 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 465 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 491 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 547 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 581 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 607 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 633 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 677 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 705 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 747 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 776 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 288 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md