Register - Login
Views: 99328910
Main - Memberlist - Active users - Calendar - Wiki - IRC Chat - Online users
Ranks - Rules/FAQ - Stats - Latest Posts - Color Chart - Smilies
04-21-22 10:09:15 AM
Jul - General Chat - I wrote a lot of words about stuff, including this place New poll - New thread - New reply
Pages: 1 2 3 4Next newer thread | Next older thread
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21844/25343
EXP: 296639743
For next: 2320710

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 7 hours

Posted on 09-19-16 09:04:20 AM Link | Quote
I think the fundamental issue at the heart of my thoughts is a loss of a space like "LiveJournal".

LiveJournal in its heyday had individual journals and "communities". You could set privacy levels for posts on both, from either "only self", "everyone", or "friends", or "members of the community" — only those people would be able to view and comment. Communities, too, could either be public or invite-only.

Later on, you actually could create "groups" too, which would allow visibility only to friends in a group you made.

I feel like this is the nostalgic sharing method I have been wanting. Rather than the "all visible", or "only super visible" type, stuff controllable at a community level. So you could have, say, a public all-joinable TCRF group, a private invite-only "vent station", and individual allowances for who could see your own threads (if you wanted).


Today's social media is very different to this, usually either "all visible always", or "nothing but friends visible". Twitter is especially egregious because if someone public replies to a private account, anyone can still see the replies; in this case only people who could see the original post could reply or view other replies... (Maybe even comments could have subset limiters, e.g. "mutual friends only"?)


Hmm :/

____________________
(Testing: 21844 posts, level 230, 187309271 EXP)
Sanqui
2060
💛🤍💜🖤🦉
Level: 87


Posts: 1466/2066
EXP: 6302963
For next: 89811

Since: 12-20-09

Pronouns: any ✨
From: Czechia | Estonia

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 hour

Posted on 09-19-16 09:10:34 AM Link | Quote


*Sanky flops.

level 69

exp 2786822

exppct 41.2%

numposts 1466

 
You know, I'm not entirely sold on that. I like having a solid, larger but trusted community where I can share private thoughts, and not have to cherry pick people who I want to see something... but I suppose there are situations when you'd want that, too.

It's complicated.

____________________
In our brief lives,  •  we've managed to meet.  •  Treasure this gift,  •  this precious time that we have.        
Arisotura
Member
Level: 49


Posts: 357/614
EXP: 879616
For next: 4267

Since: 02-24-13

From: your dreams

Since last post: 90 days
Last activity: 48 days

Posted on 09-19-16 09:10:50 AM Link | Quote
This is a tricky situation.


If I were to do something, I would make it all-public. The issue is that the private ranting space would be lost, though, but the place would feel truly open and fair.

There's always shit like the Officer's Club forum. You can easily keep trolls and such out of these forums. But outside attacks are the issue, where a member posts in that forum and someone uses their posts to attack them outside, in a place you don't control.


I always liked the feel the old boards had-- Acmlm's, or this back in 2008. When I read the archives, it really looks like it was a nice active group of friends, you could say/post something and have people react and all. Much of this is gone today. The IRC channels I'm into are mostly inactive all day long.


Dunno.

____________________
Kuribo64 -- NSMB2 hacking and other crap
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21846/25343
EXP: 296639743
For next: 2320710

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 7 hours

Posted on 09-19-16 09:44:24 AM Link | Quote
The activity-in-private-only issue isn't as important as it might seem at first glance, because the private areas are actually even more dead than the public ones. Trust me when I say you are not missing much from them right now.

People just grew up, got jobs, moved on.

____________________
(Testing: 21846 posts, level 230, 187335771 EXP)
dotUser
From the Grave
Level: 91


Posts: 2183/2357
EXP: 7417139
For next: 51773

Since: 10-20-10

Pronouns: she/her
From: a particularly peculiar tiny store's back shelf

Since last post: 22 days
Last activity: 6 days

Posted on 09-19-16 12:53:26 PM Link | Quote
GNU dotUser 2.1.2-git        File: ~/.user/makepost.py
Or are just too lazy to do or say anything! (hi from the person who can post anywhere, and do anything from mobile..!)

____________________
^W Web^B Tumblr^^^^
^T Twitter^P ~town^^^^
zerojay
Member
Level: 12


Posts: 19/25
EXP: 7729
For next: 192

Since: 11-01-11


Since last post: 3.6 years
Last activity: 2.0 years

Posted on 09-19-16 02:55:08 PM Link | Quote
Is there some requirement that you code it (a new community) up yourself instead of using something off the shelf?
Arisotura
Member
Level: 49


Posts: 360/614
EXP: 879616
For next: 4267

Since: 02-24-13

From: your dreams

Since last post: 90 days
Last activity: 48 days

Posted on 09-19-16 03:26:07 PM Link | Quote
You don't 'code' a community. The medium used doesn't matter much as long as the community is there and the medium used fits the community's desires.

____________________
Kuribo64 -- NSMB2 hacking and other crap
zerojay
Member
Level: 12


Posts: 20/25
EXP: 7729
For next: 192

Since: 11-01-11


Since last post: 3.6 years
Last activity: 2.0 years

Posted on 09-19-16 04:22:05 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by StapleButter
You don't 'code' a community.


Yeah, thanks.
Arisotura
Member
Level: 49


Posts: 361/614
EXP: 879616
For next: 4267

Since: 02-24-13

From: your dreams

Since last post: 90 days
Last activity: 48 days

Posted on 09-19-16 04:27:44 PM Link | Quote
... maybe explain what you were referring to, instead of a reply that just implies "you're an idiot lol"?

____________________
Kuribo64 -- NSMB2 hacking and other crap
zerojay
Member
Level: 12


Posts: 21/25
EXP: 7729
For next: 192

Since: 11-01-11


Since last post: 3.6 years
Last activity: 2.0 years

Posted on 09-19-16 04:30:25 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by StapleButter
... maybe explain what you were referring to, instead of a reply that just implies "you're an idiot lol"?


It's pretty explicit. Maybe try reading it without the brackets.
FPzero
9590



Post 9591/9597
Active
5.4 years ago
Posted on 09-19-16 10:57:43 PM Link | Quote
He's asking if there's a requirement that Xk actually writes the forum software instead of using a pre-made bit of forum software (like what we're using now) were he to establish a new community.



I don't think large forums have ever been really good for maintaining a "private" space. Forums, by their nature, are generally intended to house more than a dozen users. In order to keep things private, you have a couple private subforums, usually devoted to staff matters. The issue at hand here is that the super subforums on this board stopped really being private subforums for <12 individuals and more like a "cool kids club" for people we liked or trusted more than the rest. Suddenly the private subforums became slightly less private. Even though the people in them knew each other and for the most part fully trusted each other, the thought still comes up that there's stuff you don't want to share even to the hand-picked super users. At that point, you're just repeating everything again, except now you have "regular users" "super users" and "extra special users" in a third, even more secretive subforum.

There's a very hard balance to strike between openness and privacy in regards to forums. That's why so many people had personal blogs even during the age of forums. Now blogs have been replaced with Twitter and Tumblr except in the case of Tumblr you can really choose who to let in, leading to its own source of issues like hugboxing. Will we see forums become more popular again as people slowly start looking for the privacy of smaller forums in lieu of "always on, always sharing" social media platforms? Who knows, but you might see a small uptick.

____________________
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21850/25343
EXP: 296639743
For next: 2320710

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 7 hours

Posted on 09-19-16 11:37:06 PM (last edited by Xkeeper at 09-19-16 11:37:50 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by FPzero
Now blogs have been replaced with Twitter and Tumblr except in the case of Tumblr you can really choose who to let in, leading to its own source of issues like hugboxing.

I'm going to just stop you there and say that I think "hugboxing" is a made-up issue by the likes of SA and related "satire" communities. Supportive groups serve a very useful purpose, especially in the modern age of the internet with as toxic as everything has gotten.

I wasn't really aware Tumblr had private blogs, though, everything seems mostly open. If there are, it isn't really easily discoverable.


Originally posted by zerojay
Is there some requirement that you code it (a new community) up yourself instead of using something off the shelf?


Not really, but there's also not really a precedent (edit: "existing version?") for this sort of thing, I guess.




I was thinking about it a little more and maybe there just isn't a solution for this at all; there are always going to be needs better suited by another, smaller community, which is one of the various reasons there are so many fragmented groups out there.

Even now, I'm actually in a handful of sub-communities in IRC, all of which had different needs that wouldn't be adequately satisfied by a forum like this.

____________________
(Testing: 21850 posts, level 231, 187403320 EXP)
dotUser
From the Grave
Level: 91


Posts: 2184/2357
EXP: 7417139
For next: 51773

Since: 10-20-10

Pronouns: she/her
From: a particularly peculiar tiny store's back shelf

Since last post: 22 days
Last activity: 6 days

Posted on 09-19-16 11:49:51 PM (last edited by dotUser at 09-19-16 11:50:55 PM) Link | Quote
GNU dotUser 2.1.2-git        File: ~/.user/makepost.py
AcmlmBoard is pretty flexible in capabilities; it could fulfil all things at once, it just would start to look like a forum*chan though probably. w



____________________
^W Web^B Tumblr^^^^
^T Twitter^P ~town^^^^
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21852/25343
EXP: 296639743
For next: 2320710

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 7 hours

Posted on 09-19-16 11:54:26 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by dotUser
Also 'hugboxing' is just a really bad way of saying putting themselves in an echo chamber. And that is a problem, especially if they suddenly include someone who knows nothing of it, and then teach them ('so and so is a shithead').
Just think of the kids who hate you Xk, they don't even all know why they hate you! Some are just told to, or do so from false accusations.

Fortunately, I don't see a lot of echo-chamber shit going on here (or in super, anyway), so I don't think this is a concern outside of certain hateful groups and their counter-groups.

You confused the two. Hugboxes are a derogatory term for the "safe space" ideal (somewhere that is literally only supportive about certain topics, usually), while an echo chamber is a place that simply allows no dissent. There's a very large difference between the two.

In reality, echo chambers can exist even without the requirement of being able to mute people; if you create a toxic enough environment that drives away people, any place can quickly degenerate into one. The ability to ban people just makes the process faster.

____________________
(Testing: 21852 posts, level 231, 187429386 EXP)
Nicole

Disk-kun
Level: 146


Posts: 6376/6469
EXP: 38242781
For next: 270513

Since: 07-07-07

Pronouns: she/her
From: Boston, MA

Since last post: 66 days
Last activity: 8 days

Posted on 09-19-16 11:59:30 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Even now, I'm actually in a handful of sub-communities in IRC, all of which had different needs that wouldn't be adequately satisfied by a forum like this.

The nice thing about how I use IRC (on small community networks), is that though I'm in a bunch of channels with different purposes there's a lot of overlap-- there is benefit in having a "larger community" and subsets of it, and when anyone can make a subset it helps reduce the "elitism" perception.

The downside is that it's completely ephemeral. Like two ships crossing in the middle of the ocean

____________________
Nicole - LV 136 - EP 29524665
FPzero
9590



Post 9593/9597
Active
5.4 years ago
Posted on 09-20-16 12:01:41 AM Link | Quote
I think I was looking for the term echo chamber. I've probably been on SA too long.

Having supportive friends is not a bad thing, believe me I know. in my opinion it can become an issue when some people take it too far and create a space where absolutely no conflicting opinions are allowed in for whatever reason. It doesn't seem healthy to seclude yourself to that point for a long period of time. I've never been in that situation though so I'm not exactly the best authority on the matter.

____________________
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21853/25343
EXP: 296639743
For next: 2320710

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 7 hours

Posted on 09-20-16 12:02:04 AM Link | Quote
Yeah, that is one of the things I was talking about w/r/t the Livejournal community concept, too. You had a large community, but at the same time an ability to make smaller communities with their own users.

Honestly, almost something like Discord. Let a user create their own forum, add users to a group that could read and post in it... I wonder if such a thing would work.

____________________
(Lv 231 with 187442399 EXP)
Octangula

Level: 10


Posts: 10/17
EXP: 3219
For next: 1195

Since: 07-12-16

Pronouns: they/them

Since last post: 4.2 years
Last activity: 3.5 years

Posted on 09-21-16 04:30:03 PM Link | Quote
Obligatory mention that Livejournal isn't dead (although large numbers of English-speaking people have moved away from it... still as popular as ever in Russia, though), and that forks of LJ's codebase exist (and some of those aren't entirely dead either).

As much as I struggle with the LJ way (mostly with the whole posting thing), one thing it was (and still is, for people who use it there or elsewhere) was a place to get to know people, in a way that you had some control over (the "friends list" is a broad-headed hammer that gets used for two divergent purposes, but it's a mostly sound idea). And that's something that I kinda miss.

Facebook and Twitter both induced large amounts of mental unpleasantness in me while I was using them; initially along the lines of "I (used to) have friends in a few different social groups, none of which would really understand any of the other social groups, so putting them all in one melting pot sounds like a really fucking bad idea", but I think that the "forced openness" thing is also present in that. Tumblr is... I like the idea of being able to "low effort post", but the whole "workflow" doesn't make sense to me. And Discord feels... almost too exclusive, in a way. A disparate star-system of everyone getting to decide who their friends are.

Forums are still a major part of how I interact with the internet. It's a technology that hasn't left me behind, even though many people have left forums behind. And I like them in a different way, one that challenges me to try to communicate more than I do, and in ways that I don't normally do. And while...

Originally posted by Xkeeper
Originally posted by Octangula
an active forum with lots of people.

You may have missed the mark here

Ok, yes, it is kinda the same dozen or so people around here, and most of them are talking about things that I don't understand... but I still feel drawn towards this place, somehow...
FPzero
9590



Post 9595/9597
Active
5.4 years ago
Posted on 09-25-16 11:49:19 PM Link | Quote
I took a look at some other older communities I've since left behind.

SMWCentral seems to be doing okay in general. Activity is lower compared to a few years ago, sure, but at least it still seems to have activity. Bunch of names I still recognize on the staff team or just regular users. Crazy that I first joined it back in late 2006/early 2007. Even crazier is that they continue to host their annual Level Design Contest, which I started back in 2008 and ran for 5 years before turning it over when I left.

A Minecraft community I joined in 2011 that had formed around the then-growing Hat Films youtube channel (who are now huge and part of the Yogscast with nearly 900K subs) seems to be dying a slow death. The channel doesn't play minecraft any longer because all three of them grew tired of the game. There are still a few names there that I recognize but considering their MC servers are currently at 0/150 users online on a Sunday evening the community site doesn't look like it'll be around for that much longer. It's too bad. I have a lot of good memories of that place from years ago when the community was smaller and we all knew each others's names.

Digging up your internet history is depressing sometimes.

____________________
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21858/25343
EXP: 296639743
For next: 2320710

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 7 hours

Posted on 09-26-16 12:28:34 AM Link | Quote
Most of the old places I used to haunt are long dead, sadly.

SMWCentral scratched an important itch for a lot of people that Mario Maker came into and really took over, I feel. Lunar Magic is still one of the most powerful "novice-friendly" tools around, far simpler than most other editors.

I'm pretty sure I'm still perma-banned from that community, of course.

____________________
(Lv 231 with 187674255 EXP)
Pages: 1 2 3 4Next newer thread | Next older thread
Jul - General Chat - I wrote a lot of words about stuff, including this place New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic

Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

31 database queries, 4 query cache hits.
Query execution time: 0.085780 seconds
Script execution time: 0.040288 seconds
Total render time: 0.126068 seconds