Register - Login
Views: 99387201
 Main - Memberlist - Active users - Calendar - Wiki - IRC Chat - Online users
Ranks - Rules/FAQ - Stats - Latest Posts - Color Chart - Smilies		 04-24-22 05:56:56 AM
Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Godzilla: Monster of Monsters-Hedorah New poll - New thread - New reply
Next newer thread | Next older thread
GraphicsFish
Random nobody
Level: 6


Posts: 1/7
EXP: 839
For next: 68

Since: 09-09-16


Since last post: 5.1 years
Last activity: 5.0 years
Posted on 09-09-16 06:38:11 AM Link | Quote
I'm not particularly in the know-how of digging for data in games, save for picking out unused sprites in a tile editor, but I wanted to get a discussion going on the topic this game; particularly one of the boss monsters.

Hedorah the smog monster is shown in his flying form during the cast call at the end of the game. He does not fly while fighting him. It seems strange to me that they'd render an entirely unique sprite just for the credits.

I guess I have two trains of thoughts regarding this sprite's place on TCRF...

Apologies if this is something better suited for the game's notes page

A.) Assuming it WASN'T rendered just for the sake of the credits, it would be fair to assume that he may have changed form depending on the fighting monster; Godzilla fights bipedal Hedorah, while Mothra fights flying Hedorah. If the sprite is shown during the credits, can it be assumed that the decision to not make him fly in battle was removed near the end of development and there might be a way to enable some unused flying behavior in-game?

B.) I believe that "in game" only refers to the part that can be played, correct? Like when an otherwise unused track/sound effect can still be heard in a sound test, it's still considered unused, right? Would this graphic still then have a place on this game's page?
ICEknight
Member
Level: 26


Posts: 125/135
EXP: 97119
For next: 5156

Since: 10-25-11


Since last post: 4.1 years
Last activity: 3.9 years
Posted on 09-10-16 10:41:01 PM Link | Quote
Assumptions ashmuptions.

Please try to get some proof that it wasn't just made for the ending first.
GraphicsFish
Random nobody
Level: 6


Posts: 2/7
EXP: 839
For next: 68

Since: 09-09-16


Since last post: 5.1 years
Last activity: 5.0 years
Posted on 09-11-16 05:11:10 AM Link | Quote
Didn't answer my question, but okay.

I laid out both possibilities;

A.) If it isn't, there might be data for it. As I said, I don't know how to go about looking for it. Not ASKING anybody to do so, just making an observation.

B.) If it IS, would it qualify as "not used", considering it's not present in the part that you actually play? Like the example I gave: Tracks still present in a sound test that aren't present during normal gameplay are still classified as "unused," despite being accessible normally by the player.

I can offer this: The sprite IS stored with the rest of Hedorah's sprites, and not with the other graphics that are used for after completing the game. That alone doesn't say much, but it's something.
ThatGodzillaFan
Random nobody
Level: 6


Posts: 5/6
EXP: 741
For next: 166

Since: 05-06-15


Since last post: 5.6 years
Last activity: 1.3 years
Posted on 09-11-16 05:58:57 AM Link | Quote
The unused track on the GMOM page isn't accessible through the game's sound test though. As for Hedorah, I don't see any evidence that the flying form would actually appear ingame.

I searched through of the kaiju values using this code from ファミコンチート集 Wiki:

0129-01-00- enemy monster [00-07]
00: King Ghidorah
01: Mechagodzilla
02: Hedorah
03: Gigan
04: Baragon
05: Mogera
06: balun (AKA Varan)
07: Gezora

None of them point to Hedorah's flying form so I assume the sprite was exclusively created for the credits or they scrapped him too early into development so no data exists. But hey, I could be wrong, I'm not all that great at finding unused content within NES games. I only found Angilas and Rodan because I found their codes on a Japanese website. I prefer working with newer games.

Glad to see there's some interest in this game though! There's a lot of unused content in Godzilla games just waiting to be discovered.
GraphicsFish
Random nobody
Level: 6


Posts: 3/7
EXP: 839
For next: 68

Since: 09-09-16


Since last post: 5.1 years
Last activity: 5.0 years
Posted on 09-11-16 08:38:36 PM (last edited by GraphicsFish at 09-11-16 10:17:45 PM) Link | Quote
Interesting.

I wasn't referring to GMOM's music in particular, I just recall instances on other game pages that "in-game" excludes sound tests, so I was wondering if by that standard, credits would count also.

But yes, even with what little I knew about game coding, I thought that Flying Hedorah would probably be programmed as separate monster. So, given that value chart, seems to be just a sprite.
Unless it's just an unused attack/behavior of sorts.

Also curious, on a related note, the North American instruction book says that Varan has some sort of "jumping" move, which he certainly doesn't have.


Willing to bet that the person who wrote that just goofed, though. Still found it neat, though.

Thanks for the input though! really cool!
GraphicsFish
Random nobody
Level: 6


Posts: 4/7
EXP: 839
For next: 68

Since: 09-09-16


Since last post: 5.1 years
Last activity: 5.0 years
Posted on 09-13-16 08:41:43 PM Link | Quote
(Had to look up the rules about double posting; looks like it's acceptable in this case.)

I had looked into this before and I don't know why I neglected to dig into it more before my original post.

After looking at Hedorah's graphics in a tile editor, it looks like there are more tiles for another sprite of Hedorah's flying form. I assembled the graphic shown in the credits (left) and there were leftover tiles; they make up the graphic on the right. I can't guarantee that it's assembled 100% correctly, but I'm fairly certain that it's accurate.


commercial photography locations
ThatGodzillaFan
Random nobody
Level: 6


Posts: 6/6
EXP: 741
For next: 166

Since: 05-06-15


Since last post: 5.6 years
Last activity: 1.3 years
Posted on 09-14-16 09:36:45 AM (last edited by ThatGodzillaFan at 09-14-16 06:27:36 PM) Link | Quote
Interesting! I don't really get what Hedorah is supposed to be doing, but if there's more sprites for the flying form, it seems like it was to appear ingame. I still don't believe they programmed the other form though. They had Rodan's sprite but his programming was never finished, so its possible that its the same case for Hedorah's flying form.
ICEknight
Member
Level: 26


Posts: 126/135
EXP: 97119
For next: 5156

Since: 10-25-11


Since last post: 4.1 years
Last activity: 3.9 years
Posted on 09-14-16 11:25:12 AM Link | Quote
Now that's something worth adding to the wiki.
GraphicsFish
Random nobody
Level: 6


Posts: 5/7
EXP: 839
For next: 68

Since: 09-09-16


Since last post: 5.1 years
Last activity: 5.0 years
Posted on 09-14-16 05:35:11 PM Link | Quote
It looks like Hedorah is just tilting to his right, like a gliding motion. Rodan's sprites seem to have him flying in a similar motion.

Another little tidbit that I found was what looks like a note or something from one of the developers.

commercial photography locations

A couple of tiles of this can be found near Mougera's graphics. I plugged it into a translator and it came out to "Butterbur," a type of plant. That translation either didn't come out right, was some sort of inside joke, or those places were reserved for graphics of that plant, or something. There's only one type of level that has anything botanical.

Anyway, it's there though. Whatever it means.
divingkataetheweirdo

Bandit
TCRF Super Editor
Level: 57


Posts: 624/822
EXP: 1479686
For next: 6242

Since: 07-09-11


Since last post: 1.6 years
Last activity: 253 days
Posted on 09-14-16 07:13:01 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by GraphicsFish

Another little tidbit that I found was what looks like a note or something from one of the developers.

commercial photography locations

A couple of tiles of this can be found near Mougera's graphics. I plugged it into a translator and it came out to "Butterbur," a type of plant. That translation either didn't come out right, was some sort of inside joke, or those places were reserved for graphics of that plant, or something. There's only one type of level that has anything botanical.

Anyway, it's there though. Whatever it means.


アキ in this context usually is 空き, which means "empty". It was common among game developers to mark empty space in the ROM as アキ. Nothing terribly special here.


____________________
GraphicsFish
Random nobody
Level: 6


Posts: 6/7
EXP: 839
For next: 68

Since: 09-09-16


Since last post: 5.1 years
Last activity: 5.0 years
Posted on 09-14-16 08:07:31 PM Link | Quote
Makes sense. I initially assumed that's what it was, but I plugged into a translator just for the sake of doing so. Cool to know for sure though.
Next newer thread | Next older thread
Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Godzilla: Monster of Monsters-Hedorah New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

32 database queries, 7 query cache hits.
Query execution time:  0.277342 seconds
Script execution time:  0.016307 seconds
Total render time:  0.293649 seconds


TidyHTML vomit below
line 1 column 1 - Warning: missing <!DOCTYPE> declaration
line 2 column 311 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 119 column 11 - Warning: <form> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 118 column 10 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 120 column 11 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 120 column 119 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 124 column 16 - Warning: plain text isn't allowed in <tr> elements
line 120 column 11 - Info: <tr> previously mentioned
line 125 column 68 - Warning: missing </nobr> before </td>
line 141 column 68 - Warning: missing </nobr> before <tr>
line 147 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 147 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 148 column 37 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&id"
line 147 column 208 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 149 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 149 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 149 column 91 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 156 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 158 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 176 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 177 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 192 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 194 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 212 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 213 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 220 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 222 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 240 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 241 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 254 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 256 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 274 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 275 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 296 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 298 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 316 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 317 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 334 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 336 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 354 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 355 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 367 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 369 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 387 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 388 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 393 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 395 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 413 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 414 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 419 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 421 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 439 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 440 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 453 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 455 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 473 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 474 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 489 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 491 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 509 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 510 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 515 column 17 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 515 column 17 - Warning: discarding unexpected <table>
line 518 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 518 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 518 column 91 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 520 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 520 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 521 column 37 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&id"
line 520 column 208 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 522 column 17 - Warning: discarding unexpected </textarea>
line 522 column 28 - Warning: discarding unexpected </form>
line 522 column 35 - Warning: discarding unexpected </embed>
line 522 column 43 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noembed>
line 522 column 53 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noscript>
line 522 column 64 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noembed>
line 522 column 74 - Warning: discarding unexpected </embed>
line 522 column 82 - Warning: discarding unexpected </table>
line 522 column 90 - Warning: discarding unexpected </table>
line 524 column 9 - Warning: missing </font> before <table>
line 536 column 25 - Warning: discarding unexpected </font>
line 545 column 57 - Warning: discarding unexpected </font>
line 523 column 1 - Warning: missing </center>
line 120 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 125 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 125 column 93 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 141 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 141 column 98 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 148 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 161 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 172 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 197 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 197 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 197 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 197 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 208 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 225 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 225 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 225 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 225 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 236 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 259 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 259 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 259 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 259 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 270 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 301 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 301 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 301 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 301 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 312 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 339 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 339 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 339 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 339 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 350 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 372 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 372 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 372 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 372 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 383 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 398 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 398 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 398 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 398 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 409 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 424 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 424 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 424 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 424 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 435 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 457 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 458 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 458 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 458 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 458 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 459 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 469 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 486 column 1055 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 494 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 494 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 494 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 494 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 505 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 521 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 521 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 521 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 530 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 535 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 149 column 50 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 515 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 518 column 50 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 213 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 241 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 275 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 317 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 355 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 388 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 414 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 440 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 474 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 510 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 168 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md