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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Regarding version differences New poll - New thread - New reply
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ICEknight
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Posted on 03-24-15 09:29:20 PM (last edited by ICEknight at 03-24-15 10:29:26 PM) Link | Quote
There's been some talk at the Art of Fighting (SNES) page about the non inclusion of certain region-specific changes, and how it's not the main focus of TCRF, so I brought up that I've set up a separate wiki at www.versionhistory.com, which is supposed to be centered on any kind of changes between versions (be it regional, updates, etc), so that there's a place to add them before they get discarded and lost forever.

Since it's a minor project of mine and some real-life events are keeping me busy as of late, I haven't been able to add any of the content that I have gathered (hence why it hasn't been properly launched yet), but I believe that everything should be ready to get it started so that anybody can add any of these version changes that wouldn't fit into TCRF.


Sorry in advance if this topic can be considered spam, in which case feel free to close it.
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Posted on 03-25-15 10:17:29 AM Link | Quote
So what exactly does this cover, that TCRF does not?

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Posted on 03-25-15 10:39:26 AM Link | Quote
From the discussion on the page, differences in gameplay / extras between versions of games.

Like the stupid, tacked on ending on the SNES port of Art of Fighting.

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ICEknight
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Posted on 03-25-15 12:45:51 PM (last edited by ICEknight at 03-25-15 01:42:59 PM) Link | Quote
What he said and, basically, those things that aren't supposed to be hidden at all.


Here's a simplified example (I'm going by memory here, so it may be inaccurate):

Sonic The Hedgehog (Mega Drive)

v.00
-No parallax in certain levels.
-Sonic gets hurt by spikes even when invincible.
-Included in:
--International cartridge release
--Sonic Compilation/Sonic 4-in-1
--3D Sonic The Hedgehog

v.01
-Parallax in those certain levels.
-Sonic gets hurt by spikes even when invincible.
-Included in:
--Japanese cartridge release

Sonic Mega Collection (Game Cube, X-Box, PlayStation 2, PC)
-Parallax in those certain levels.
-Sonic doesn't get hurt by spikes even when invincible.
-Included in:
--Sonic Mega Collection (Game Cube)
--Sonic Mega Collection Plus (X-Box, PlayStation 2, PC)
--3D Sonic The Hedgehog

3D Sonic The Hedgehog (3DS)
-Includes "v.00" and "Sonic Mega Collection" versions
-Option to (RAM) activate level select by default
-Option to (ROM) patch spin dash move
Hiccup
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Posted on 03-25-15 01:13:06 PM (last edited by Hiccup at 03-25-15 01:13:31 PM) Link | Quote
Most of that stuff about Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis) seems to be on TCRF.

And the guidelines says:

"Add This Stuff
[...]
3. Differences between released versions."

"Don't Add This Stuff
[...]
5. Publisher, logo, and copyright/licensing changes between regions."

This seems to suggest that this stuff is okay.

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ICEknight
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Posted on 03-25-15 01:27:51 PM (last edited by ICEknight at 03-25-15 01:37:00 PM) Link | Quote
EDIT: Disregard, see below.
Hiccup
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Posted on 03-25-15 01:33:41 PM (last edited by Hiccup at 03-25-15 01:40:25 PM) Link | Quote
Or do you mean differences between the 'same game' on different platforms [e.g. Donkey Kong (Arcade) -> Donkey Kong (NES)]?

Because that isn't in the guidelines under 'Add This Stuff' or 'Don't Add This Stuff'.

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Posted on 03-25-15 01:36:42 PM (last edited by ICEknight at 03-25-15 01:53:41 PM) Link | Quote
There could be:

-Revision differences (between releases on the same platform)
-Conversion differences (between this game and whatever version of the original game that it was based on)


A more illustrative example:

Sonic 2 (iOS, Android)

-Version differences

--Original release (xx/xx/xxxx)
---Features xxxx as an easter egg
---Bug when yyyy happens

--xx/xx/xxxx update
---xxxx easter egg removed
---Fixed yyyy


-Regional differences
--Japanese version -> Let's imagine that it's a separate build, for this example
---"Miles" code activated by default
---Menu texts fully translated


-Conversion differences from Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive, v.01)
--Variable aspect ratio depending on current display
--Multiplayer in all levels
--Online multiplayer
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Posted on 03-25-15 02:11:18 PM Link | Quote
If this stuff isn't going to be covered by TCRF, than documenting it on that wiki sounds like a good idea.

But I'm not sure about having an overlap between the two sites, that seems like a waste of time to me.

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Posted on 03-25-15 03:58:02 PM Link | Quote
This new wiki would focus more on conversion stuff than actual differences between releases of a game, then?

So revisional differences (like stuff from 1.0 to 1.1) would be secondary - this is stuff that gets covered by TCRF already, at least for console and arcade games, but not as often for PC games.

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ICEknight
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Posted on 03-25-15 04:30:56 PM Link | Quote
My original plans were to slowly cover all those differences (of course, citing sources everywhere) but, yeah, each contributor may focus on the kind of changes they deem more relevant.

I personally also find the additions between ports and conversions more interesting than "fixed bug X" or "menus fully translated into Y", but in the end I think it would be pretty handy to ultimately have all these kinds of differences documented in the same place.
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Posted on 03-28-15 06:11:49 PM Link | Quote
I'm gonna be the useless nitpicker but you forgot the level select order when you mentioned rev00 and 01 of Sonic 1 =P (that's like the other big change aside from parallax).
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Posted on 03-29-15 04:20:17 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by ICEknight
3D Sonic The Hedgehog (3DS)
-Includes "v.00" and "Sonic Mega Collection" versions
-Option to (RAM) activate level select by default
-Option to (ROM) patch spin dash move

Nothing is ROM patched when the game is loaded.

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Posted on 03-30-15 08:29:55 PM Link | Quote
I'm okay with documenting differences in ports to very different consoles (e.g. Neo-Geo -> SNES) ONLY if the port uses assets that were unused in the original version, as unused content is still the wiki's primary focus. I'm really not interested in documenting extra junk that a third party tacked on during the porting process, especially if it was never intended or approved by the original development team.

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Posted on 03-30-15 09:50:36 PM Link | Quote
I don't know why we can't include it assuming the game already has any content otherwise. I mean worst case, namespaces.

For what it's worth, I've gathered a lot of people actually find the version difference documentation really useful on TCRF

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Posted on 03-30-15 10:21:56 PM Link | Quote
UESCTerm 802.11 (remote override)
044 05.10.2337
ummm, I am in no way a major editor or staff or anything at TCRF, but in the couple articles I've made I have also included version/update/rerelease changes (these were articles on PC games) along with standard unused content fare

(i mean my mentality was, if we document changes from before release why not document changes after release?)

looking at bmf's post, i'm thinking i'd be okay with documenting port differences if they share the "same" original source and are intended to be the same game (like the windows port of Marathon 2, or the Sonic Gems roms, or the GC Zelda Collection), but for ports that were re-programmed, no matter how faithful (like sonic 2 '13 or OoT 3D, i think?) port differences would not be documented as they are different in both code and/or identity?


tl/dr a casual thinks that version differences should be okay but ports using different code are different games for the purposes of content change documentation

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Posted on 03-31-15 12:44:50 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by 2Tie
tl/dr a casual thinks that version differences should be okay but ports using different code are different games for the purposes of content change documentation

Yes, exactly.

Anyway, if we really want to add a separate namespace for this stuff, whatever. I just don't think it's appropriate for the main article (actually, I think regional/revisional differences in general should be in a separate namespace).

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Posted on 03-31-15 03:31:51 PM Link | Quote
In any case, the other wiki will be kept open (and with content being added as soon as I have some free time) so if you really don't think that certain stuff belongs here you can always add it there if you want, rather than changing the rules around.

I guess it could free some bandwidth from TCRF's server, too. I don't know if there's many people who checks it for version differences only.
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Posted on 03-31-15 06:03:25 PM Link | Quote
I'm firmly of the opinion that regional and revisional differences for games are welcome and should be included on game articles without needing any extra namespace bullshit.

I'm willing to budge on differences between major ports (e.g. SMB1 to SMB DX) but not ones that are mostly similar (e.g. SMB1 to SMB1-VC or SMB1-SMAS).



ICEknight: Good luck with your wiki! Feel free to include any relevant content from TCRF (w/ attribution). Differences in bigger ports (like SMB1/DX above) would be interesting to read about, since I know there are quite a few in that game, being mostly reprogrammed.



To be entirely honest I don't like multiple namespaces; these days I probably would've put Proto: and Prelease: as subpages (if not the main article, for small enough pages...) since their discoverability right now is abysmal. I've heard enough people who read the wiki say "I never knew there was a prototype of the first Zelda!" to want to rip my hair out.

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Posted on 03-31-15 08:32:03 PM (last edited by GoldS at 03-31-15 08:32:56 PM) Link | Quote
If someone could find out how to make the Bob template insert a "Subpages"-style section after the TOC if prototype=yes or notes=yes, that'd be pretty cool. I don't know how to make that look nice without adding a description= to the bob and editing every single page, though.

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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Regarding version differences New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
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line 595 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 596 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 596 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 596 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 596 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 597 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 607 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 614 column 878 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 622 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 622 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 622 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 622 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 623 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 633 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 649 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 650 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 650 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 650 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 650 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 651 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 661 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 675 column 1498 - Warning: <div> anchor "joyeuse" already defined
line 682 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 683 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 683 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 683 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 683 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 684 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 694 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 704 column 977 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 712 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 712 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 712 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 712 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 723 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 740 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 740 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 740 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 740 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 741 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 751 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 758 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 776 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 776 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 776 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 776 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 777 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 787 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 794 column 382 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 803 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 803 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 803 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 812 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 817 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 701 column 301 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 797 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 208 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 235 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 263 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 321 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 360 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 386 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 415 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 471 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 500 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 528 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 556 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 582 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 612 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 614 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 638 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 666 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 699 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 701 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 728 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 756 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 792 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 283 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md