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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Does TCRF cover demo versions? New poll - New thread - New reply
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Hiccup
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Posted on 07-31-13 04:49:23 PM Link | Quote
I thought since it covers prototypes and version differences, does it cover demo versions?
Ones which are not prototypes, but built after the final game?

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Posted on 07-31-13 04:51:28 PM Link | Quote
Not unless the demo somehow features unused content. Otherwise, there's no point.

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Posted on 07-31-13 04:54:56 PM Link | Quote
if it's anything more than just "we put a menu and a timer on it " I would assume yes

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Posted on 07-31-13 04:55:25 PM Link | Quote
What if the demo contains used content which was noticeably reworked for / removed from the final? I thought they more or less fell under the "prototype" umbrella in that regard.

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Posted on 07-31-13 04:59:33 PM Link | Quote
Yeah, I mostly mean if the demo is anything beyond "Hey guys, we added a timer to stop you from playing" then it's probably worth including, or at least making a note of.



Obviously if the content is quite different (see Silent Hill, Chrono Cross) then by all means it's fair game.

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Posted on 07-31-13 05:01:47 PM Link | Quote
Note that Hiccup was specifically referring to demos built after the final game.

Demos built from prototype or Japanese versions have always been fair game.

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Posted on 07-31-13 05:02:58 PM (last edited by andlabs at 07-31-13 05:03:24 PM) Link | Quote
I'm pretty sure we have some of these already, but I can't remember which (I thought it was Doom, but apparently not; also I think the Gunstar Heroes prototype may have come from a demo cart).
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Posted on 08-01-13 11:02:49 AM Link | Quote
Even if it is just a timer (the case I am thinking of is more than that). Is it not worth mentioning briefly, that it exists. Isn't that part of the point of TCRF, to describe different versions of games?

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Posted on 08-01-13 09:01:22 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Hiccup
Even if it is just a timer (the case I am thinking of is more than that). Is it not worth mentioning briefly, that it exists. Isn't that part of the point of TCRF, to describe different versions of games?

As long as it's a completely different version from the final game and not just a section ripped from the game, or a simple timer.
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Posted on 08-02-13 05:44:51 AM Link | Quote
Yes, as a example, demo of Ape Escape for PS1 have a lot of difference as title logotype, stage select area, etc.
But I'm surprised TCRF even hasn't a page for Ape Escape. :/
Should love if someone could looking at data files if there more things that isn't there in normal demo gameplay too.

Also Medevil 2 demo version has some different textures.
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Posted on 08-02-13 07:47:01 AM Link | Quote
I remember Super Mario Sunshine's demos are on the Wiki.

So long as it has any sort of change beyond timer or other limitations, such as limiting level length and places to go.

Infact, isn't CT's Proto technically a demo with drastic changes? I mean, it has the usual limitations and also specific save files created for the demonstration.
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Posted on 08-02-13 08:38:22 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Aeonic Butterfly
Infact, isn't CT's Proto technically a demo with drastic changes? I mean, it has the usual limitations and also specific save files created for the demonstration.

The Chrono Trigger sample is a legitimate prototype, as it was built while the game was still in development. All they really did was take what they had completed so far and add some barriers to prevent you from exploring too much. This is exactly the kind of demo we DO allow, as it is very different from the final game.

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Posted on 08-02-13 10:55:35 AM Link | Quote
Where would the Sega Channel demo fall under this? It's definitely based off the original code (merely looking at the program confirms this). As for differences, I know Sega Channel allows connecting some sort of debug device (in serial mode, at that), though no idea how it's used. This is present both in the final versions and in the demo, the difference is that the demo uses port 3 (the modem port) while the final cartridges use port 2 (the 2P port). I even mentioned that in the discussion page.
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Posted on 08-03-13 02:16:26 AM (last edited by OKeijiDragon at 08-03-13 02:17:20 AM) Link | Quote
How about demos of games that were included in other related games like that Crash Bandicoot: Warped demo you can play in Spyro The Dragon?

<object width="420" height="315"><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/bb-qsvdTySs?hl=en_US&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

In fact, judging from the noticeably different content which this demo goes over, the demo predates the final version in some time (I'll look and compare the files of both the demo and final later). Perhaps some very interesting material can be found in the demo's files. =)
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Posted on 08-03-13 05:36:46 PM (last edited by Foxhack at 08-03-13 05:49:19 PM) Link | Quote
I'm pretty sure they count. There's stuff like Protoaper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, which came from a multiple-game demo disc.

I think the only difference would be that you have to say where the demo came from - if it came from a game or something else.

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Posted on 08-08-13 02:44:55 PM (last edited by Hiccup at 08-08-13 02:45:23 PM) Link | Quote
Does this count as TCRF material?

It has more than just a timer slapped on.

Obviously not everything in my document will be in TCRF article.

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Posted on 08-08-13 04:34:24 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Hiccup
Does this count as TCRF material?

It has more than just a timer slapped on.

Obviously not everything in my document will be in TCRF article.

I doubt. All of the changes there are things they specifically put there for the purpose of the demo. What would have been worth noting is anything outside of the demo areas had been out of place, or if debug features were hidden in there.

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line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 205 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 207 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 231 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 257 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 283 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 313 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 315 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 341 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 367 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 394 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 421 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 451 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 481 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 483 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 508 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 534 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 564 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 592 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 623 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 632 column 1212 - Warning: <td> proprietary attribute "background"
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 296 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md