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| Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - The Great Unofficial Game Debate (tm) |  -  -  |
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— Kaito Sinclaire — Hacking reality since 20̶?͝>̨ )̧̢~͠|̡͠T̴̡<�͏̀́#͟͠)̸̡̛̕͟_̢҉M̨̛͢͠͠@̴̷(̧̕01 ERROR. 
Pronouns: any Joined 09.07.2011 Last posted 1.0 years ago Last active 356 days ago
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Well, I said it before:
Originally posted by Inuyasha Outright banning fangames and hacks is not the best solution, but where do you set the barrier for entry? There already are a few fangames sitting on the wiki, so the can of worms is already open. Some consistent policy really needs to be put into place... ____________________ |
Peardian Magikoopa 16/3/1: KvSG #479 is up! Level: 157      Posts: 6758/7597 EXP: 48561490 For next: 1017743 Since: 08-02-07 From: Isle Delfino Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 hour |
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Rachel Mae Creature of Chaos Level: 141  Posts: 5393/5929 EXP: 33575469 For next: 544545 Since: 07-03-07 Pronouns: she/her From: Foxglen Since last post: 12 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| Kung Fu Man Member Level: 15 Posts: 25/36 EXP: 13711 For next: 2673 Since: 04-12-11 Since last post: 7.5 years Last activity: 7.2 years |
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| I don't know how much weight I have in here...but as someone that does modify games I feel such content shouldn't be here. Leave it be for the stuff from the original developers that give insight into what might have been. I'm too readily picturing too people going "I'm going to leave this stuff all over just so I can use TCRF to advertise my work", which I think happened a few months back with a game that had a "picture of Billy the Kid" for no apparent reason, no? |
| Xkeeper Level: 263  Posts: 21094/25343 EXP: 296713564 For next: 2246889 Since: 07-03-07 Pronouns: they/them/???????? Since last post: 9 days Last activity: 2 days |
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I kind of waffle on it. Consider something like Mario Adventure ... It's a finished and dead hack by this point, but if there's unused crap in it should we not add it just because it's by someone who isn't "commercial"? What happens when a fangame goes 'official'?
I think that the rules about this need to be fine-tuned greatly. Perhaps have some base notability requirement or release age... ____________________ |
Cuber456 Fuzzy Don't mind me. Just passing through. Level: 56  Posts: 267/776 EXP: 1317880 For next: 80296 Since: 02-19-12 From: Everywhere at once. Since last post: 4.2 years Last activity: 122 days |
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Originally posted by XkeeperThe notability of a title won't solve the problem. I could name games that I'm sure most people here haven't played or heard of. Likewise, I'm sure people could name games that I haven't played or even heard of either. Just because a game isn't as notable or mainstream as another game doesn't necessarily mean that it should be excluded from the wiki. Limiting what can go onto the wiki by the release age of a title won't solve the problem either. If I told you that Animal Crossing: New Leaf had a debug menu that could be accessed by pressing a certain button combination before the main menu was reached, I doubt that anyone would object it from going onto the wiki even though the game is ~2 months old by release date. I think a better way to justify what goes on the wiki is through a combination of how the game actually got to the public and the number of games the developer has produced. Was the game just hosted on some crappy website to be downloaded? Is this the dev teams only work? Originally posted by BMF54123You have got my curiosity. Which games? ____________________ "Consider this a privilege. You have been chosen." |
| Rachel Mae Creature of Chaos Level: 141  Posts: 5395/5929 EXP: 33575469 For next: 544545 Since: 07-03-07 Pronouns: she/her From: Foxglen Since last post: 12 days Last activity: 2 days |
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| 7HeroesForceBattle Member Level: 13 Posts: 13/25 EXP: 8263 For next: 2004 Since: 05-07-10 Since last post: 1.2 years Last activity: 7 days |
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| Perhaps there could be some kind of two-tier system for judging whether a title should be included? First, a game would automatically be eligible if it was a commercial product or intended as a promotion for a commercial product (demo or advergame, etc). If a game doesn't fall into either of those two categories, it will then be judged based on a scale that relates search engine hits to time of release. For example, a title released within the last {x} months would require at least {x} Google hits to be considered notable enough for TCRF. However, there would be a much lower threshold for a game from 2008, and at a certain age the notability concern would be automatically outweighed by the inherent interest in obscurities that this project is largely concerned with. This should hopefully serve to cut down on the people putting things in their game just for TCRF attention or having to debate whether to add the latest nude Wilford Brimley hack. A much harsher and draconian measure, which I probably shouldn't bother mentioning, is to move smaller/recent indie games and hacks to user spaces, where their search presence is diminished (I think?). I believe such games usually attract the attention of one user at a time in most situations, and contributions from others can be negotiated, with the article eventually being promoted to mainspace if it reaches a certain level of quality/interest. Of course, the problem of how much media one user can upload for their pet projects becomes an issue, and then you get to thinking about maybe an upload limit based on seniority or something, and at that point it's really becoming the kind of formality that I think TCRF is trying to avoid? |
| Sheeza Member Level: 17 Posts: 34/54 EXP: 23869 For next: 874 Since: 05-27-12 Since last post: 1.3 years Last activity: 1.5 years |
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| Google hits can be easily manipulated. They aren't particularly good criteria. I don't feel very strongly about fan games but maybe some could be included if they're interesting enough. Requring individual approval should be sufficient for the few exceptions that can be on the wiki. I suspect it's really not that many. |
| KungFuFurby Member Level: 12 Posts: 18/25 EXP: 7816 For next: 105 Since: 08-10-11 Since last post: 8.2 years Last activity: 2.5 years |
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| Does this spread over to the consoles as well... as in actual homebrew games that aren't hacks of other games (I have a few SNES games released past 2000 that I could probably name, although I actually don't have a lot, especially if they're not in the graphics department, for which I generally don't bother with)? I think of N-Warp Daisakusen for the SNES, for which I have found both unused music (one of them only in an earlier version) and a debug mode (and I even have revision differences! I believe the credits sequence was both inaccessible and might even not be there at all in the earlier version). |
| Peardian Magikoopa 16/3/1: KvSG #479 is up! Level: 157 Posts: 6763/7597 EXP: 48561490 For next: 1017743 Since: 08-02-07 From: Isle Delfino Since last post: 1 day Last activity: 1 hour |
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| omega59 Member Level: 29 Posts: 123/184 EXP: 144352 For next: 3533 Since: 02-25-13 Since last post: 6.5 years Last activity: 5.0 years |
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| I'd say that fan games should have to be an original game (not a hack of another game and using its resources as a crutch) to be able to get on the wiki. |
| AttackedbyGlitch Member Level: 15 Posts: 30/38 EXP: 14535 For next: 1849 Since: 10-08-11 Since last post: 8.4 years Last activity: 6.3 years |
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| If we're going to include homebrew games, maybe they should be a subcategory of the unlicensed games category for their respective system (something like Category:Homebrew NES games)? |
| Sheeza Member Level: 17 Posts: 35/54 EXP: 23869 For next: 874 Since: 05-27-12 Since last post: 1.3 years Last activity: 1.5 years |
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| Homebrew games should be OK. They could be compared to Flash games, and we have quite a lot of these. |
| MUGEN-tan Member Level: 27 Posts: 89/150 EXP: 113639 For next: 2520 Since: 11-01-11 Since last post: 3.9 years Last activity: 1.7 years |
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Originally posted by omega59 So that means that Mushroom Kingdom Fusion or MegaMan Day in the Limelight 2 has a chance to get in? Afterall, they are not hacks. |
| Xkeeper Level: 263 Posts: 21098/25343 EXP: 296713564 For next: 2246889 Since: 07-03-07 Pronouns: they/them/???????? Since last post: 9 days Last activity: 2 days |
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Originally posted by Cuber456 For this point, I was exclusively talking about homebrew/fangames that might still be getting rapid releases. Commercial releases tend to be a lot more stable and don't change very frequently if at all, outside of large DLC dumps ... especially physical releases.
Your points have problems, too; Ikachan and Cave Story were the only "games" Pixel had put out but at the time I really doubt anybody here would debate adding them to the wiki... And there's stuff like Yume Nikki, too. Any solution that solves this problem is going to do it subjectively and will be wrong sometimes. I am not suggesting that the "notability" and "time" requirements are strict rules, but more of guidelines by which to judge things. e.g. Newer SMBW just came out but is relatively high-quality and notable, while a hack like Super Nazi Penis Cartel Freedom Fighters 3 (yes, it is real) is quite old and notably terrible, obviously staying out. It really comes down to preference. ____________________ |
| Cuber456 Fuzzy Don't mind me. Just passing through. Level: 56 Posts: 269/776 EXP: 1317880 For next: 80296 Since: 02-19-12 From: Everywhere at once. Since last post: 4.2 years Last activity: 122 days |
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Originally posted by XkeeperGood counter points. I think that you are correct that any rules put forth are going to be subjective and wrong at times. BTW, I have never heard of Super Nazi Penis Cartel Freedom Fighters 3 before and don't wish to find out more... Originally posted by BMF54123Oh man... Now I am really curious. ____________________ "Consider this a privilege. You have been chosen." |
| Foxhack Member Annoying fuzzball Level: 54  Posts: 430/722 EXP: 1173403 For next: 60467 Since: 04-17-12 From: Mexicali, Mexico Since last post: 2.0 years Last activity: 1.8 years |
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Originally posted by BMF54123 You mean this thing? ____________________ 
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| Sik Level: 23 Posts: 35/107 EXP: 64768 For next: 2955 Since: 12-07-12 Since last post: 3.3 years Last activity: 1.2 years |
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Originally posted by AttackedbyGlitch Problem is: what qualifies as homebrew? More specifically, what makes homebrew any different from other unlicensed games? (especially unlicensed games made after the system's lifespan) It seems that the definition of homebrew depends on whether it was made by "somebody from the community" or some random guy in China or Russia, which is rather arbitrary to me. And let's not get into cases like Super Fighter Team localizing unlicensed games that usually wouldn't get the homebrew label yet people tend to call these guys homebrewers. OK, that's some generalization, but my point is, I can't understand how homebrew is any different from unlicensed games in general. |
| Sheeza Member Level: 17 Posts: 36/54 EXP: 23869 For next: 874 Since: 05-27-12 Since last post: 1.3 years Last activity: 1.5 years |
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| It's simple: unlicensed games are sold, homebrew games are released for free. |
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| Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - The Great Unofficial Game Debate (tm) | - - |
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