Jul -- The Cutting Room Floor: XENOBLADE - trying to figure out aggro

queazy
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Posted on 09-26-12 07:40:29 AM

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Hi,

Is there anybody who can look at the Xenoblade game code, or tell me how to look at the code, to figure out how aggro works?

I got sucked into playing Xenoblade and don't want to put it down. Right now I'm trying to figure out the in-game formulas for aggro. Been fooling around in fights inside the game and trying to record numbers and use math to figure out aggro calculations. Aggro is the amount of hate a monster has against a character, which determines who the monster attacks. So a big defensively strong "tank" character can achieve the most aggro so that other squishier characters can do damage without fear of being attacked. So far I've found out that (with auto swings) every point of damage you do is worth 1 point of aggro, and you _lose_ 2 points of aggro for any points of damage you receive.

However a lot of things throw me. The special "art" attacks also have something extra that mixes in and screws up the math. Use X art and add ten points of aggro in addition to every point of aggro resulting for each point of damage done. Use Y art and it might be an extra twenty points of aggro. That's not really what puzzles me...unless those extra points get multiplied by player level (no way I can figure that out).

1) But the thing that really confuses me is how many points of aggro are generated for every point of healing? And does that count over-healing too (where one heals a target past their capacity to receive)?

2) Most of all, what is the mechanic to Reyn's "Mad Taunt" talent? It is supposed to pull aggro towards him, but I can not figure out its mechanics. Sometimes it works, sometimes its temporary. I read in the japanese wiki at URL
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://xenobladedata.web.fc2.com/data/chr_arts.html&usg=ALkJrhivitZDp4iua7uBp2B7FCLcL0IjlQ
that Reyn's "Mad Taunt" gives "20 + α" in aggro...but it doesn't say what that is, although it does mention its tied to his level.

Anyway I'm doing my best to figure this out, and saw that somebody here knows how to read the code of the game, so I'm hoping to find out how to figure this aggro puzzle out.

Thank you.

Afti
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Posted on 09-27-12 09:52:43 PM

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Haven't looked into that much, I'm afraid. I don't even know where the arts data is stored. I need to find that; with any luck, I'll be able to figure the DB out. ...Assuming it is a DB and not a mess of hardcoding in main.dol.

If you're trying to find Mad Taunt algebraically - with Gecko OS and Ocarina codes, you could control Reyn's level manually; figure the aggro he draws for each level and use that to find the multiplier.

As for healing - you'd probably be best off using Riki's healing art to test that; low enough output if you don't have any debuffs that it won't overheal. Get the data from that art, then start checking overheals.

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queazy
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Posted on 09-30-12 08:05:30 AM

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Originally posted by Afti
Haven't looked into that much, I'm afraid. I don't even know where the arts data is stored. I need to find that; with any luck, I'll be able to figure the DB out. ...Assuming it is a DB and not a mess of hardcoding in main.dol.

If you're trying to find Mad Taunt algebraically - with Gecko OS and Ocarina codes, you could control Reyn's level manually; figure the aggro he draws for each level and use that to find the multiplier.

As for healing - you'd probably be best off using Riki's healing art to test that; low enough output if you don't have any debuffs that it won't overheal. Get the data from that art, then start checking overheals.

Hi, thank you for the responses.

I don't know how to do that code stuff, can you tell me where to learn? I don't even emulate the game because I think my computers are too weak.

I have gone the hard way and have slowly figured out that every point of healing generates 2.5 times as much in aggro. I've slooowly figured this out through many battles where a party member would hit a monster, Melia's would heal with "Healing Gift", call my partners so they don't attack anymore, and then calculate the aggro. It took forever, and the only real tools I had to figure this stuff out was "1 point of damage against monster = 1 point of aggro" and that "receiving 1 point of damage from a monster = lowers aggro by 2 points on that monsters aggro table". Then I'd let the monster hit my characters until the aggro switched, so I could tell what the turning point was due to math. I also loaded them up with tons of P&E defense so that the monster wouldn't hit hard to make the calculations more precise.

Figured this all out because I was going insane trying to figure out why people say Reyn's such a weak tank when it comes to holding aggro...and its because he loses twice as much aggro as damage he takes! Whearas Dunban just avoids/dodges taking most damage. And _THIS_ is what Anchor Chain is talking about when it says "prevents aggro loss due to damage". Nobody would have ever guessed

Now I want to figure out what Mad Taunt does to ultimately figure out Reyn's utility as a tank.

-----------------------------------
Are you the guy who made the page at "http://tcrf.net/User:Afti/Xenoblade_Chronicles"? I love the things you put up in that page. I especially love the artwork for the storyboards & cutscenes.

I can't tell if you are the person who made that, but if you are may I suggest two things for that page.
1) I'm pretty sure the the bottom two monsters at "http://tcrf.net/User:Afti/Xenoblade_Chronicles#Unused_Models" are in the game. I'm pretty sure they're monsters in the Bionis' Interior, like the Selua monsters at "http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Chimai_Selua" & "http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Selua". They are hard to recognize however, because they are kind of see-through, like jellyfish.
2) I think the top monster at "http://tcrf.net/User:Afti/Xenoblade_Chronicles#Unused_Models" may have been a further mechanized Orluga boss in the High Entia Tomb, as they seems to share many resemblances to eachother. At one point the party tries to catch up to Melia who is at the end of the tomb, but the get separated and have to fight a boss "Orluga Rufus", who later becomes just a regular enemy. That unused model might have been the boss at that location, underneath that giant whirly blue hi-tech stuff in the High Entia Tomb, but was later just cut out. That's my guess.
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Looking forward to your response. Anyway thank you so much.

Afti
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Posted on 09-30-12 08:49:37 AM (last edited by BMF54123 at 10-01-12 04:53:41 AM)

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Yeah, that's my doing. Still very much unfinished, mind you. And I'll remove the Selua - didn't recognize them without their effects! Thanks.

Apparently there's a level modifier code in the wild, but it's not in WiiRD's database, so who knows. Regardless, if you can find it - you can just set up Gecko OS on your Wii, and load the game with codes turned on. Just like using an AR. Find the aggro gained for each level in a sequence and use that data to get a formula.

Reyn really is an awful tank; I'm not surprised that the mechanics work the way they do, considering just how bad he is at keeping aggro. Hell, 7th makes a better tank and she doesn't even have any way of taking other characters' aggro.

This is probably the only remotely complete game Takahashi have actually managed to get out, but even so there's a ton of cut content; the distinction seems to be that they had enough extras to lose some without worry, as opposed to pulling a Xenogears and turning the latter half of the game into a chain of cutscenes.

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