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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker Findings New poll - New thread - New reply
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Dark Linkaël

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Posted on 06-29-12 11:06:06 AM Link | Quote
About the unused room in the Wind Temple, it is simply placed in the game. Wind Viewer and WWActorEdit have nothing to do with it. Moreover, the collision of the room is around the temple.

For Forsaken Fortress, there are four large doors and they are closed. Just below these doors are placed a little door. It is not the remains of an older version, but only a means of triggering to open or close the big doors. Programmers have small doors for some reason and they make you never see in the game. This kind of thing exists in many game and it does not surprise me.

There are probably still some things hidden. With Wind Viewer, I found this:



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Gamma
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Posted on 06-29-12 01:18:02 PM (last edited by Gamma at 06-29-12 01:21:04 PM) Link | Quote
I'm sorry! I didn't know that your post was in response to Cuber, DarkLinkael.

But yeah, I think the unused room should go in the unused rooms page.
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Posted on 06-30-12 10:35:21 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Dark Linkaël
This kind of thing exists in many game and it does not surprise me.
It's often much easier and more efficient to repurpose existing objects and behaviors in a game engine than to code new ones from scratch. One good example is Atlantis no Nazo: the player's spawn point at the beginning of the game is actually an ordinary door, colored blue to match the sky. This allowed the developers to set the exact point they wanted the player to start from, without having to code a special exception just for that level. Super Mario Bros. 2 works the same way, except they didn't hide the door.

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Posted on 07-01-12 09:42:07 AM Link | Quote
Exactly! I also cited other games like "Might and Magic 4 and 5". In these games, there are enigmas to solve by writing words. Most enigmas are activated with monsters that are hidden in walls and impossible to kill. With a hex editor, you can see them and kill them. Automatically, the enigma is solved! The normal case is when the resolved enigma, the monsters are destroyed immediately. I think I even remember there was even an enemy unused and especially very long to kill!

I discovered this about 13 years ago and it surprised me at the time. Now it does not surprise me, especially seeing the strange doors in The Wind Waker.

The unused room is already present in the page. There are even three unused rooms of the Wind Temple.

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Posted on 07-01-12 11:08:14 PM (last edited by Gamma at 07-01-12 11:18:45 PM) Link | Quote
I just found an intriguing screenshot that I haven't seen before:



What I see here:

-Link has brown sleeves
-It uses the more recent beta sky model
-It uses the beta clouds
-There's an island in the background, even though it looks like an outside room in Dragon Roost Cavern
-There isn't a room exactly like this in Dragon Roost Cavern

Here's my hypothesis- Dragon Roost Cavern's files are held in the folder called "M_NewD2." Considering the folder name and how the screenshot looks like a room in Dragon Roost Cavern, could this be from the original Dragon Roost Cavern (IE before the redesign that made the new one called "M_NewD2")? I know it's pure conjecture, and I can't prove anything, but it's interesting to me nonetheless.

Also, I'd like to say... the boss room for Dragon Roost is called "M_DragB." Now, this is interesting, because most of the other boss rooms are called
"(dungeon name)B," like the Wind Temple is "kaze" and Molgera's room is "kazeB." I hypothesize that the original version of Dragon Roost Cavern was named "M_Drag" before its redesign- at which point the folder containing the new rooms was called "M_NewD2" in order to avoid confusion. There's also evidence in the name of the folder called "M_Dra09," which contains ONLY Room09 of Dragon Roost Cavern.
Dark Linkaël

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Posted on 07-02-12 08:04:37 AM (last edited by Dark Linkaël at 07-02-12 08:05:29 AM) Link | Quote
1) Link had brown sleeves in the first Zelda.
2-3)This old version of sky and clouds remained very late in the game I would say until the game is released
4-5)The first dungeon has big differences, even outdoors.

It is possible that this is the name for the new version of this dungeon. I think he must have the same name as the other. Only then can we know if we have a prototype of TWW from E3 2002 demo for example.

Otherwise, I found something about the demo 23. Use "ON" for the demo (Link and Tetra in the sea). You will see after the scene, you can play this demo! I think this is an option to play some demos. I'll try to see other demos.

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Posted on 07-03-12 04:53:51 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Dark Linkaël
1) Link had brown sleeves in the first Zelda.
2-3)This old version of sky and clouds remained very late in the game I would say until the game is released
4-5)The first dungeon has big differences, even outdoors.

It is possible that this is the name for the new version of this dungeon. I think he must have the same name as the other. Only then can we know if we have a prototype of TWW from E3 2002 demo for example.

Otherwise, I found something about the demo 23. Use "ON" for the demo (Link and Tetra in the sea). You will see after the scene, you can play this demo! I think this is an option to play some demos. I'll try to see other demos.


Since you guys mentioned prototype screen shots, IGN put up a whole bunch of videos of the Wind Waker before it got released. Most of the videos seem to be from around spaceworld 2001 and E3 2002. Before this I believe you had to be a IGN prime member to see the videos(which was ridiculous for a game that is close to 10 years old...). Anyway, I decided to put all(or at least most) of them on a playlist on youtube so that they could be easily watched. There are 100 videos and it will take a little more than an hour to watch them all(if you do watch them all...). Most of the interesting videos are at the beginning of the playlist since they are older.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5AEA58E736665AC3

The second thing I want to comment on is the Demo 23 option. This option still mystifies me. I don't know if I am the only one but there are some demo maps that I can't load with the debug menu when Demo 23 off. Three of them out of random are Demo (26) Getting Fire Ice Arrows, Demo(26) Additional Super Fairy Demo and Demo(36) Bedroom Ganon Fight(back). I don't know if I am the only one but I can't load these demos UNLESS Demo 23 is ON. The strange thing with Demo(36) is after the cut scene is over, the game will load the Puppet Ganon boss room as expected but the bed from the cut scene before puppet ganon was fought will be there and zelda will be standing on it. Both versions of Demo(26) are almost the exact same. The only difference I can find is that the Fairy Queen has slightly different text in each version. I can't tell if one is unused or not since it has been a while since I've played this game.
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Posted on 07-03-12 11:13:18 AM Link | Quote
Yes, I know the videos and they are very interesting.

The demo 26 is strange, especially with two versions. However, I do not see a difference in the text... Where is it?

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Posted on 07-03-12 03:02:16 PM (last edited by Gamma at 07-04-12 03:47:10 PM) Link | Quote
Darklinkael, there are two versions of Demo26- One where you get the Fire and Ice arrows, and one where the Fairy Queen refuses to give them to you since you haven't rescued Aryll yet.

And I'm looking into those videos. I'l edit in analysis as I watch them. Note that the numbering of the videos got severely messed up when I was taking notes!

Second video:
-The B button is gone when Link is moving, and there's a little effect when it comes back. I'm pretty sure that the B button is static in the final.
-One of the Moblins attacks Link, even though he's in a barrel. In the final, Moblins A) don't see you unless you move while in a barrel and B) don't attack you- they just through their lamps at you.

Third video:
-Ooh! The Pirate's Charm prompt is actually the Z button! I didn't notice that the Z button was missing from the HUD in the second video. Perhaps they were going for something like Twilight Princess, where you could contact your partner at any time?
-This made me laugh... The door that Link goes through? It goes UP. In the final, those doors Link opens normally, like the doors on Outset and Windfall.
-There's a floor master in the room outside. There aren't floor masters in the Forsaken Fortress until the second visit, and even then there's only one- on the bottom level of the room with the boat suspended in the air.

Fouth video:
-The battle music is much, much different, if I'm hearing it right.
-Link has his sword! In the Forsaken Fortress! Could this just be for demo purposes?

Fifth video:
-Oh, yeah, the sword is also still on the A button. The B button is the action button.
-Link enters the Forsaken Fortress through one of those doors I mentioned earlier- WHILE HOLDING AN ENEMY WEAPON. The final makes Link drop an enemy weapon before switching maps. Wait... OK, so the game just doesn't make Link drop it, as when the next map loads Link's not holding it anymore.

Sixth video:
-The text here is similar but different than the text in the final. Probably due to translation differences.
-Something else- the scene that plays before the Pirate's Charm, the one that all dungeons have (Panning around the area with the dungeon name in the corner of the screen) doesn't play here.
-To accommodate the B button being the action button, the arrow that indicates more text is red.
-Tetra mentions the Z button instead of the A button while explaining the Pirate's Charm, but that's no surprise.
-The scene is missing Tetra's apology for making you lose your sword.

Seventh Video:
-Text is different, like before.
-Some of Link's protests to being in the barrel are missing
-The "End of Text" icon is red, but it's also slightly different.
-Tetra refers to Gonzo as "Catapult-master."
-The angle at which Link crashes into the Forsaken Fortress is different- you can see the bokoblin guarding the entrance to Aryll's room.
-The barrel just breaks, and the entire scene with the sword dropping doesn't occur.

Eighth video:
-"Don't tell me you were playing that game where you bet your treasures..." XD
-"That's what we pirates call "The Island of the Magical Beast."" WHAT!?
-"Some people say this was a famous pirate fortress, where my competitors used to lay low..."
-"But now, this place is dangerous." Like it wouldn't be dangerous with a band of pirates living in it?
-"Remember how those sea gulls seemed to like your sister?" This actually makes more sense than the final.
-"I'll bet that's where Arill has been imprisoned!" Arill?

Ninth video:
-There's a blockade on the bridge. That's not there in the final.
-The forest looks slightly different, but I'll have to compare them.

Tenth video:
-Link used the Hurrcane Spin, which isn't available until mid-game
-Tetra's scream when she realizes she's in the air is slightly different
-Her other noises are also... less child-like? They're not like the normal ones.
-The scream she makes when she falls is different.
-Link just sits there and stares at her from the ground near the raised ledge, instead of on the ledge itself. It looks to me like the game would have cut from there to something else, because there's a fade after that.

Eleventh Video:
-The pirate ship is ACTUALLY MOVING. In the final, it's just an effect created by sea foam on the bow and a trail near the stern.
-Aryll is a bit more excited here than in the final! The sound she makes is also different.
-The entire things was also through the Telescope.

Twelfth video:
-You already have the sword.
-The kid with the snot bubble doesn't make a sound when he follows you.
-The row of trees blocking you from going up the slope is a blockade.
-The Hurricane spin also doesn't make Link dizzy- just tired.

Thirteenth video:
-COMPLETELY different item screen!
-Aryll had two telescopes? She's looking through one, and Link also has one...
-R zooms in the telescope, not the c stick.
-Aryll's exclamation sound for Link to look up is different.

Fourteenth video:
-There are no islands in the background. What could this be?

Fifteenth video:
-The guy stalking the black pig is to the side, behind the tree, instead of in line with the pig.

Sixteenth video:
-The intro cinematic is different, but that's probably for demo purposes. Link stats at his house, and the camera pans up the beach. (off topic, this is probably what the map select screen means by "New" when referring to this cinematic).
-The lady who tells Link how to pick things up also says what the B icon will say "Lift" and "Drop," in this case.

Seventeenth video:
-Nothing to note.

Eighteenth video:
-It's a trailer that, going by the HUD, is the same age as the E3 trailer.

(The next few videos seem to be the sources for footage in that trailer)

OK, so I'll pick back up on the 25th video:
-The chest that appears when Link lights the torch is a spiked one rather than a wooden one

26th:
-Link carries the boko stick from the previous video through a door, which isn't possible in the final.
-There are bokoblins in the main room of Dragon Roost, which aren't in the final.

27th:
-The model for the entrance to Dragon Roost Cavern seem to be slightly different- there's no ledge before the chamber where the Bokoblins are.
-The battle music is also quite different. It sounds more whimsical than the final.
-The door that's locked in the final is just barred here.

28th:
-There's a ledge in the middle of the main room in Dragon Roost Cavern. Looks like there's a Magtail on it.

29th:
-Apparently, the chest containing a key in the final entrance room to Dragon Roost Cavern has a... red rupee.
-It's small, but I noticed that the camera moves like the door's going to lock when Link enters the next room, but it doesn't.

30th:
-Just Gohma. The music is the same, and Gohma itself is the same.

31st:
-Yep, the entrance room to DRC is different. No ledge.

32nd:
-Gohma again. Nothing different.

33rd:
-Gohma...

34th:
Gohma, but we see Valoo. He's the same.

35th:
-Ocean game, looks like the one from the folder called "Ocean". Sail looks a bit different.

36th:
-Apparently the pirates ran the ocean game...?

37th:
-These platforms don't exist in the final DRC.

38th:
-This room doesn't exist. There's one similar to it, but not exactly like it.

39th:
-There's some kind of "X" wooden blockade on the door in this room. Don't know what it is.
-There's also a bridge with chains holding it up.
-I'm not sure if this room exists.

40th:
-I don't know if it's seriously the voice, but the KoRL's voice sounds... very geeky.

43rd video (Approx.):
-OK. Looks like this room is an extended version of one of the outside rooms in the final DRC.

44th:
-Gohma's intro. It's exactly the same.

45th:
-Nothing of note, more DRC

46th:
-More DRC.
-Apparently you couldn't use the grappling hook to steal enemy items.

47th:
-It's the entrance to the room with the boss key.
-Boss key room is different, too. The chest is on the left instead of the right.

48th:
-This is still DRC, but someone tried to open a door with A.

49th:
-This room doesn't exist. It looks like it was compounded into the main room of DRC, as it has the boss key room connected to it.
-There's some kind of tunnel in the video near the lava. Don't know what it's for.

50:
-DRC, nothing we haven't seen.
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Posted on 07-03-12 06:20:22 PM Link | Quote
Thank you to both of you for the interesting content! I have a bit of a prerelease Wind Waker series I'm looking to expand with more screenshots, footage, and commentary here. If you don't mind, could I create a page to feature your videos, Cuber, and display them alongside your commentary, Gamma? I'll credit you both, of course!

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Posted on 07-03-12 06:25:49 PM Link | Quote
Yup, you can use my commentary. However, be sure to say that the numbers I used for the videos aren't the actual video numbers. I got offset at some point.
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Posted on 07-03-12 10:38:05 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by GlitterBerri
Thank you to both of you for the interesting content! I have a bit of a prerelease Wind Waker series I'm looking to expand with more screenshots, footage, and commentary here. If you don't mind, could I create a page to feature your videos, Cuber, and display them alongside your commentary, Gamma? I'll credit you both, of course!


To be fair, they aren't really my videos to begin with. If you notice, all the videos were posted by IGN(or IGNentertainment). The only thing I did was bring your attention to them and put them all into a playlist so they could be easily watched. I'm hoping that won't stop you from using them though. Since we are on this topic, here are two more links that might interest you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3qJctqtF9M

This is some footage of the 2002 E3 presentation. About a minute in, they start talking about the Wind Waker. Some of the footage is covered in the previously mentioned playlist but it is all split up while in this link it is all in one piece. What is slightly funny to me is that, during the presentation, one of the items required to progress through the dungeon just disappears. This left them unable to go further into the dungeon.

http://zelda.com/gcn/

This link is to the old Wind Waker promotional site by Nintendo and it is surprising to me that it is still up. With that said though, not everything on the site is working. For example, videos don't appear to play and clicking some of the links will just result in a "500 server error" and won't load. What will probably interest you the most on this site would be the interview with Miyamoto about the game. It is under "behind the legend". I believe there also used to be a Japanese Wind Waker promotional site as well but I can't seem to find it.


Hey Gamma, you might want to look up until video 58 of the list. Reason being is that up to video 58, Link still has brown sleeves. The others afterwards probably aren't worth looking at since they seem to be like videos of the final version. Here is my list of differences between videos 50 and 58 that I feel are worth noting. There could be more differences but I can't tell without further research. Some of my info might overlap with yours but whatever.

Video 52

-different music plays when enemies are near.

-can bring items between rooms

-boko sticks can break


---------------------
video 54

This map seems to be the exactly the same as the unused DmSpot0 map in the final game. I'll list a few differences anyway.

-The music of Outset Island in the video is different than the final

-row of trees, shrubs, and the fence by the mailbox aren't there

-mailbox looks taller

-Orca house is like the one from the E3 2002 map

-tree nearst to the water bridge and the sea isn't there

-three mini trees near Aryll's lookout aren't there

------------------
video 56

-R button will throw an item that is picked up (eg. pig)

---------------

Hopefully all this info will be useful in at least some way. I will respond to Dark Linkaël's comment about Demo 26 soon.
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Posted on 07-04-12 05:36:13 AM (last edited by Cuber456 at 07-04-12 08:09:31 AM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Dark Linkaël
Yes, I know the videos and they are very interesting.

The demo 26 is strange, especially with two versions. However, I do not see a difference in the text... Where is it?


Sorry if this took me a little while to get to. I posted a video of each version of demo 26.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf3cGQjuSTg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnuZ_UwmZoc


The first video is Demo(26) Getting Fire, Ice Arrows and the second video is Demo(26) Additional Super Fairy Demo. Both include the whole cut scene so feel free to skip around. Like I said though, there isn't much of a difference between the two besides some small text differences but I'm surprised you didn't see them. I believe I remember seeing the first one but it is hard to remember.

I've come up with 2 ideas to try to explain why there are two versions although one of them can't be true. If I remember correctly, you only see the Queen of Fairies once in the game. The first idea is that perhaps if you visited the Queen of Fairies at a different time than you normally do, you can see the other cut scene. Problem with this idea is that you have to see her after you the second time you visit the Forsaken Fortress in order to get to Ice Ring Isle and Fire Mountain which is shortly after. If you appear before you visit the Forsaken Fortress for the second time, I don't think she appears. Hopefully someone will back me up on this.

The second and more plausible idea is that perhaps one demo is used for the "first quest" and the other demo is used for the "second quest". I can't confirm this though because I only played each quest once and that was like 2 years ago. I would be happy if someone could help me out here.

By the way, is there a way to make links clickable? I feel silly having to have people copy and paste links into the address bar.
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Posted on 07-04-12 05:52:13 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Cuber456
By the way, is there a way to make links clickable? I feel silly having to have people copy and paste links into the address bar.
Jul allows HTML in posts, so you can just use standard <a href="http://...">link text</a> or such. We also have something resembling BBCode, so you can also use [break the bbcode!url="http://..."]link text[/url] or [break the bbcode!url]http://...[/url].

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Posted on 07-04-12 08:09:59 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Joe
Originally posted by Cuber456
By the way, is there a way to make links clickable? I feel silly having to have people copy and paste links into the address bar.
Jul allows HTML in posts, so you can just use standard <a href="http://...">link text</a> or such. We also have something resembling BBCode, so you can also use [break the bbcode!url="http://..."]link text[/url] or [break the bbcode!url]http://...[/url].


Thanks!
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Posted on 07-04-12 09:22:41 AM (last edited by Dark Linkaël at 07-04-12 09:35:03 AM) Link | Quote
There I saw the differences between the two videos. I confirm that these are two quests! I just view videos to prevent replaying the game. These texts are used.

About the old version of the sky, there is something that shocked many. When the sun was rising or went down, it was visible in front of the clouds on the horizon. Not logical! Especially, see big clouds around, it seems that the weather is very bad in the distance. I had seen this somewhere, but not on small videos from E3 2002. Nintendo decided at the last moment to make a new model of the sky and clouds. Now the sun behind the clouds less dense the horizon.

Look at the end of the Japanese trailer:

The Wind Waker Japanese Trailer

Ah, I have another comment to make and which appears to be a debug mode. In older dating screenshots from E3 2002 or earlier. I noticed that there were 12 hearts and 64 rupees in some cases and others with 8 hearts, 120 rupees and 3 keys.









I also notice that Link has blue eyes on the third image!

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Posted on 07-04-12 03:48:07 PM Link | Quote
Glitterberri, just so you know, I've edited my commentary to fix some mistakes and other misc. stuff. Please use this version.
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Posted on 07-04-12 11:10:16 PM Link | Quote
The videos are great. Thank you.

I remember 58, didn't think for a while about how old it was. Anyone else reminded of TP with it, though?
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Posted on 07-06-12 10:51:27 PM Link | Quote
Here is a question for you guys that I want to get clarified (at least for myself). Back on page 5 of this thread, some of you guys talked about the demo version of the Wind Waker. Is the information on that page representative of all the demo versions of the game or is it only representative of the demo on the collectors edition of the game? The reason I ask is because I learned that there are a few different demos of the game. The earliest I could find was version 9 of the kiosk demo

http://www.nintendemos.com/?id=game&sys=gcn&game=ver9

Considering this disk was released in-between the Japanese and US release dates of the retail game, I don't know if it would be worth searching.
xdaniel
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>>ESTABLISHING LINK...DONE.    >>FETCHING POST DATA...DONE.    >>EXECUTING POSTDISP.BIN...


The demo from the Vol. 9 demo disc is the only one I played, no idea if the collector's edition demo is any different.

IIRC, said kiosk demo has three different parts of the game available to play (called Dungeon, Stealth and something else), the dungeon's exit doesn't actually work, so you can't just go fooling around where you're not supposed to, although the whole sea folder - thus every island, but not necessarily any interior maps on them - is actually on the disc.

Most interesting is probably the game's script as it's quite different, and likely a far more literal and rough translation of the original Japanese - most of the text actually still is in Japanese or, like the Memory Card and file management messages, have been replaced by a generic error message ("ERROR, please ask a sales representative for assistance" or somesuch).


____________________
cu xdaniel - Follower of the Church of Madoka


"What color is your BLOOD?!?"

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Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

33 database queries, 12 query cache hits.
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line 936 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 964 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 994 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 389 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md