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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - SM64 Weird object layout New poll - New thread - New reply
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DarkSpacer
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Posted on 05-19-12 09:29:40 PM (last edited by DarkSpacer at 05-19-12 09:32:13 PM) Link | Quote
I would put this on the wiki myself, but it's so unusuall I kinda think I should put it here just so it looks okay on the wiki...I still don't know how to format things on there...

ANYWAY, I was tooling around with TT64 when I came across this:


There's some random coins, some 1-ups, and a bunch of objects smushed together. The full list of extra objects is in the object list on the left in the image.

I really don't know...can someone verify this for me? It dosen't even look like a layout change unless there was a completely different kind of event in this area...

Here's some images of the objects I found:





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Posted on 05-21-12 03:48:43 AM Link | Quote
Can we confirm that it's not a bug in the editor/game first? That seems like an awfully weird list of objects to appear in that area.

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Posted on 05-24-12 05:31:18 PM (last edited by DarkSpacer at 05-24-12 05:32:37 PM) Link | Quote
Well...I verified it by playing the game with an unedited unextended ROM...and I couldn't find those objects even with Moon Jump...so yeah, sorry. Wasted forum space. Oh well.

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Posted on 05-26-12 07:31:04 PM Link | Quote
That doesn't mean they don't exist though. The editor could be right...

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Posted on 05-26-12 10:26:49 PM Link | Quote



Originally posted by Sails
That doesn't mean they don't exist though. The editor could be right...

Yeah, just checked TT64, and the weird object placement is there. I'm going to bed now so I don't have enough time to check why it's there, but everything on the 0x43 placement isn't used. I'll probably check this out tomorrow so I'll edit in anything I discover.

Also, two things I notice isn't in the wiki. Firstly the plantings in the castle has 3 warps depending on if you jump in the center, left or right. Secondly this.

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Posted on 05-27-12 06:44:32 AM Link | Quote
Post #4795 · 05-27-12 01:44:32 AM
Those objects look interesting. The objects themselves don't make much sense, but the placement seems deliberate. Perhaps that data isn't meant to be a list of objects, but a path for the camera to follow during the ending scene, or some other data that just happens to look like a semi-sane object arrangement? Mario Kart stores object layouts and AI paths in the same format, so you can end up with odd-looking paths or item arrangements on the track if you mistake one for the other.
Another possibility is that this is left over from an earlier design of the level, or incorrectly loaded from a different level; in those cases, the object IDs may have corresponded to different objects earlier in development, or may refer to different objects in the correct level. (Object #42 is X in this level, but Y in another, etc.) Or again, they might not be object IDs at all.
If it's not a bug in the editor, there may be a hardcoded check to remove those objects or skip over that list for this level. These games tended to have a lot of silly hacks like that. (Mario Kart is practically nothing but hacks... )

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Posted on 05-27-12 09:55:11 PM Link | Quote
I DID notice that it seemed deliberate...you guys are trying to make something of it so I guess I will try too.

The camera-path idea looks interesting...but I'm going to study it now to see if it's anything else.

And I remember making a list of odd placements in other levels one time...but it's so old I don't even know if I saved it...

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Posted on 05-27-12 10:39:10 PM Link | Quote
I don't think it's the camera. The only ending scene that happens in there shows the penguin at the start, but not the racetrack itself. And the camera on the racetrack isn't any special from other racetracks (but do check the TTM racetrack to see if it has similar objects).
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Posted on 05-27-12 11:24:48 PM (last edited by DarkSpacer at 05-27-12 11:39:39 PM) Link | Quote
And after a LOT of thought put into it and looking at it...it dosen't look like any kind of path (AI, camera or otherwise):




In case you guys can make more sense of it then I can, I made three images tracing the path that the other objects make:





I will check the TTM track next and edit this post if I make it before someone else posts.

EDIT: Made it! Yes, I'm fast XD

I didn't find anything in the track, but in TTM itself, I did find a Monty Mole stuck in the middle of the mountain:


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Posted on 05-28-12 06:26:06 AM Link | Quote
That mole is more than likely something they forgot while redesigning the level. See also the two impossible coins that are in the game.
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Posted on 05-29-12 09:55:40 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Sheeza
That mole is more than likely something they forgot while redesigning the level. See also the two impossible coins that are in the game.


Monty mole does not work like most enemies. Several can be placed anywhere on the map, and they will pop out from random money mole hole behavior objects.

The behaviors and models are too precisely pointed to for this to be unused coordinates or a random selection of code. I will look over everything in a hex editor and search for anything unusual. The "Unknown" behaviors don't give anything away, they just lead to behaviors which end instantly. The reason these objects don't appear is probably because the stars they appear on have not been set.
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Posted on 05-29-12 10:33:29 AM Link | Quote
Oh, heh. Shows that I shouldn't talk abut things I don't know about.

Good to see someone experienced with SM64 look into this, though. Those "findings" look pretty suspect to me, so I hope you'll be able to clear things up.
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Posted on 05-30-12 05:20:25 AM (last edited by Celux at 05-30-12 05:24:50 AM) Link | Quote
I have looked over it all carefully, and here are my thoughts.

This level originally used the Castle and Snow Man's Land objects, which I am confident in because it matches up
the models and behaviors correctly.

Here is an explanation of each object:
*a butterfly
*an open cannon
*several coins
*a jumping fireball, unless the original behavior was overwritten.
*a smashable ice square, model 0x37 in Snow Man's Land, behavior 0x1DA4 removed
*spindrifts
*original 2D animated stars, like in the beta videos. Behavior 0x2A10 is billboarded and 0x2A20 includes a texture animation rate command, suggesting these used to make up the star behavior. This also happens to be near the beta checkerboard platform behavior.
*A penguin who's behavior was unset or replaced with the static behavior
*A static 3D object, like many others in SM64. It even uses the correct parameters, so the only mystery behind this object is what model 0x13 was.
*a 3-star castle door. Interesting that the only 3-star door in the game happens lead to Cool Cool Mountain.

It seems that this area was probably an incomplete snow level which was replaced with CCM slide, but special objects were not used in the slide, so the old ones were not removed. The object positioning probably has little meaning, as they were likely just thrown in for testing, although it does suggest a tall mountain area.
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Posted on 05-30-12 08:38:51 AM Link | Quote
Post #4800 · Wed 120530 043851
So, it could be just that they copied and pasted another level and altered it, forgetting to remove some objects?

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Posted on 05-30-12 04:16:42 PM Link | Quote
So the level most likely has a hardcoded check to skip over any Special object in the level?

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Posted on 05-31-12 05:13:24 AM Link | Quote
Post #4806 · Thu 120531 011324
That wouldn't surprise me at all.

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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - SM64 Weird object layout New poll - New thread - New reply


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line 557 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 561 column 91 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" had invalid value "97ACEF" and has been replaced
line 589 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 589 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 589 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 589 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 600 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 615 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 615 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 615 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 626 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 645 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 645 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 645 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 645 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 656 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 663 column 4354 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 663 column 4354 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 672 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 672 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 672 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 681 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 686 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 149 column 50 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 280 column 518 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 280 column 642 - Warning: trimming empty <i>
line 348 column 5635 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 607 column 4569 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 663 column 4545 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 666 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 669 column 50 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 220 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 246 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 276 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 280 column 206 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 304 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 344 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 372 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 406 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 432 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 478 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 504 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 534 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 562 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 605 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 631 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 661 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 276 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md