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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Ogre Battle 64 - Pretty decent unused stuff New poll - New thread - New reply
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Captain Cupcake
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Posted on 07-01-11 01:14:57 PM Link | Quote
Basically exactly what the title says. Ogre Battle 64 has a lot of good unused stuff, and some oddities that aren't technically unused, but still fit into the TCRF theme nonetheless (being able to use more than 2 large characters in a unit without any problem, etc.)

Thought somebody could probably have a field day with this, and it would make for a good article. =P
paulguy

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Posted on 07-01-11 01:42:56 PM Link | Quote
Paulguy's Post configuration
I'm not sure what the general attitude about this kind of thing is here, but whatever it is, it would probably still help if you at the very least provided some content that maybe someone else could compile in to a wiki page if you're not confident with writing one.

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Rick
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Posted on 07-01-11 02:26:23 PM Link | Quote
At least mention some of this stuff to us that's unused. It doesn't exactly pique my interest otherwise.

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Captain Cupcake
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Posted on 07-01-11 04:02:16 PM Link | Quote
Fair enough!

Well for starters there are a few unused classes like a non functioning werewolf class. Its supposed to be human by day and werewolf by night, but as it stands the two are listed as separate classes. There is a unique character you can get that does that, but he has his own statistics and class. This one was supposed to be a generic class like the one from Ogre Battle on the SNES and PSX. There's also a completely broken giant class, also a remnant of the SNES game. While the werewolf works perfectly in battle, save the transforming bit, the Giant will crash your game and has the appearance of the witch who revives your characters for you. That's about all I know as I learned what I did from a gameFAQs gameshark guide, but I'd be willing to bet someone who knows more about that stuff would be able to find a lot more than I did.
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Posted on 07-01-11 09:56:16 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Captain Cupcake
gameFAQs

original link

Is it really too hard to just post a link to the guide?

So yeah, anyone with knowledge of the game should check out the codes, to see if there's any unused content hiding.

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Captain Cupcake
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Posted on 07-02-11 05:12:54 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Liliana
Originally posted by Captain Cupcake
gameFAQs

original link

Is it really too hard to just post a link to the guide?

So yeah, anyone with knowledge of the game should check out the codes, to see if there's any unused content hiding.


I'm sorry. I wasn't thinking. My bad. ;
Q
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Posted on 07-02-11 08:48:51 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Liliana
original link

My older brother is actually the author of that guide.

I'll see if I can get him to help us with this.
Captain Cupcake
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Posted on 07-03-11 02:08:44 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by The Red Snifit
Originally posted by Liliana
original link

My older brother is actually the author of that guide.

I'll see if I can get him to help us with this.


Wow, that's a pretty intense coincidence. So, aside from just getting the word out on it, is there anything else I should be doing to speed this up? Aside from that guide, I really don't have any other knowledge of the game that is immediately applicable, but if there is something I haven't thought of that needs doing I'd love to do it!
Captain Cupcake
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Posted on 02-07-12 05:29:57 AM Link | Quote
So, nothing has really come of this thread, which is a shame. I'm still willing and able to help, though my technical knowledge is pretty limited. I can still at least follow instructions and I'm willing to learn provided some direction is given!
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Posted on 02-12-12 02:46:19 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Captain Cupcake
So, nothing has really come of this thread, which is a shame. I'm still willing and able to help, though my technical knowledge is pretty limited. I can still at least follow instructions and I'm willing to learn provided some direction is given!


If you really feel up to it, go to the FAQ and follow the codes given there. Start to take pictures of what happens, write up interesting notes. These will develop themselves into an article.
Captain Cupcake
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Posted on 11-26-12 05:45:17 PM Link | Quote
Okay! Sorry for the super delay on this. Anyway, here's some screenshots with what information I've got. (Very little.)


This is the unused Giant. As you can see its in a very unfinished state. It doesn't have a proper battle sprite, no attacks (though it can do it 3 times in each row), and unbelievably high defenses though I think that's just the result of the game pulling info from some random location. However, what I find really interesting is its movement type, which is immobile, like the Vampire during the day.



And here's the Lycanthrope. He's in a much better state than our Giant friend. You may recognize him as the messenger that you occasionally see in cutscenes. He comes with his own set of default equipment, and has proper level ups as well. He won't transform into a werewolf, but he does function in battle completely fine.



And the Werewolf form! Again, perfectly functioning, save no equipment. I'm not sure how they would have handled that if it had been finished, though it may have been similar to Biske, the game's fully functioning Werewolf.



And a screenshot of those two in battle. I couldn't do the Giant because it crashes the game, but those two work fine.

I don't really have a lot else to say on the matter, though just for kicks I decided to check out the level bonuses for the Giant...



That's balanced, right?
zoinkity

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Posted on 11-26-12 11:54:25 PM Link | Quote
If you wanted to try them out you could just use my patch.
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/561/

It's a few years old and limitted to the NOBE 1.0 version. I could probably cook up ones for 1.1 now, as well as the other regions. As a point of interest, the transformation cycles for leeches and puppies are different.

Unless they weren't tablified all the spells (including combos) and equipment is accounted for. Class 0x64 is an invalid special class, and besides the Giant there isn't anything else broken.


On a somewhat related note I'm coding out a resource extractor for the game. The compression types are done, and both archive wrappers. One point of interest is the game has a second LZ type that isn't used, or at least hasn't been picked up by the indexer, which really is a simpler and probably older version of the one that is used. Also worked out two specialized telemetry formats and some of the scripting engine, though not enough to do more than alter a bit of text and timing.

Images are rather complex, enough so producing Gimp xcf files might be the best way to handle them. Static images and animation frames use a base canvas size, and individual images are added and positioned as layers on this canvas. The layers don't need to be the same size, each is an indexed image, and each has an independant alpha channel so they can have 15-256 levels of depth. Plus, they're all encoded from darkest to lightest so if the palette is ignored (rendered greyscale) they still appear properly and, best of all, can be colorized via the BG/FG color set in the scripting. Heck of a piece of work.
Storage is funny too. Statics are usually within a B5 file, which is self-contained. Other statics and all animations use a table file which loads a series of other binaries that assemble everything.
Can't make heads or tails of the YUV images though. Looks like YUYV or something like that.
Captain Cupcake
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Posted on 11-27-12 01:13:50 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by zoinkity
If you wanted to try them out you could just use my patch.
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/561/

It's a few years old and limitted to the NOBE 1.0 version. I could probably cook up ones for 1.1 now, as well as the other regions. As a point of interest, the transformation cycles for leeches and puppies are different.

Unless they weren't tablified all the spells (including combos) and equipment is accounted for. Class 0x64 is an invalid special class, and besides the Giant there isn't anything else broken.


On a somewhat related note I'm coding out a resource extractor for the game. The compression types are done, and both archive wrappers. One point of interest is the game has a second LZ type that isn't used, or at least hasn't been picked up by the indexer, which really is a simpler and probably older version of the one that is used. Also worked out two specialized telemetry formats and some of the scripting engine, though not enough to do more than alter a bit of text and timing.

Images are rather complex, enough so producing Gimp xcf files might be the best way to handle them. Static images and animation frames use a base canvas size, and individual images are added and positioned as layers on this canvas. The layers don't need to be the same size, each is an indexed image, and each has an independant alpha channel so they can have 15-256 levels of depth. Plus, they're all encoded from darkest to lightest so if the palette is ignored (rendered greyscale) they still appear properly and, best of all, can be colorized via the BG/FG color set in the scripting. Heck of a piece of work.
Storage is funny too. Statics are usually within a B5 file, which is self-contained. Other statics and all animations use a table file which loads a series of other binaries that assemble everything.
Can't make heads or tails of the YUV images though. Looks like YUYV or something like that.


Well that's neat as all get out! I tried out the Gameshark codes in the link you posted, and sure enough they work! (Not that I doubted you, of course.) Sadly, I can understand very little of everything else you said. I have...very little experience with delving for unused content and the like. I love it, and its certainly a passion, but like most sports fans I don't actually have the talent to actually do it. But when I saw that there was no Ogre Battle 64 entry on TCRF, I really wanted to contribute what I knew.
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Posted on 11-27-12 03:19:34 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by zoinkity
Can't make heads or tails of the YUV images though. Looks like YUYV or something like that.
Send me some sample files, I think I can figure it out.

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Posted on 11-27-12 11:54:56 AM (last edited by zoinkity at 11-27-12 08:05:21 PM) Link | Quote
http://www.mediafire.com/?47nvd8lja1kcpxn

All the huffman compressed files are these yuv images, though for sanity's sake only stuffed four in there.
You'll notice the width * height are 1/3 the filesize, so despite it being read in as 16bit it is most certainly really 24. That said, this huffman type only writes shorts, so there's a good chance the uvs are either seperate from y pairs or paired with one.

Thanks for any help though.
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Posted on 11-27-12 09:27:48 PM Link | Quote
That's JPEG. You need a dequantization table to decode it.

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zoinkity

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Posted on 11-28-12 01:43:21 AM (last edited by zoinkity at 11-28-12 01:44:41 AM) Link | Quote
It uses the typical N64 values for YUV to RGB conversion:
K0 = 175
K1 = -43
K2 = -89
K3 = 222
K4 = 114
K5 = 42

The issue is determining the order of the values. There isn't really a debugger that will show how these are copied by the RSP.
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Posted on 11-28-12 04:33:38 AM Link | Quote
Thanks, but I'm not doing any of the decoding myself. I'm stuffing the huffman-compressed data into a JPEG file.

...Which brings me to the quantization tables. It doesn't seem to be using the one on Wikipedia, so I need one that works.

I'm going to bed now, but here's what I've got so far:

corrupt

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zoinkity

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Posted on 11-28-12 11:07:39 AM Link | Quote
Sad to say it, each of those images is screen-wide of text. They've been decomperssed actually.

It uses the values like so:
R' = Y + K0 * V
G' = Y + K1 * U + K2 * V
B' = Y + K3 * U

R = (R' - K4) * K5 + R'
G = (G' - K4) * K5 + G'
B = (B' - K4) * K5 + B'

I can't see the generated quantization tables, mostly thanks to a lack of debugger for the RCP and partly for a lack of knowing how to write one for console. That's how they map out though.

What exactly is the order of the values? If I knew which of these was which it would be easy to do the conversion.
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Posted on 11-29-12 02:54:29 AM Link | Quote
Um.

Quantization has nothing to do with the YUV conversion. It has to do with decoding the JPEG data. Those files you sent to me? Those are JPEGs.

The quantization table will be a list of 64 numbers. I found one in the ROM at 0x3C470, but it doesn't work:

corrupt

Originally posted by zoinkity
Sad to say it, each of those images is screen-wide of text. They've been decomperssed actually.
Post one here, I'd like to see it. Include the address it's at, if you can.

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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Ogre Battle 64 - Pretty decent unused stuff New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

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line 300 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 300 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 300 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 300 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 311 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 325 column 600 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 325 column 600 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 333 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 333 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 333 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 333 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 334 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 344 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 362 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 362 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 362 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 362 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 373 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 393 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 393 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 393 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 393 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 404 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 418 column 15 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 418 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 418 column 58 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 418 column 58 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 418 column 101 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 418 column 101 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 418 column 144 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 418 column 144 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 419 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 419 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 419 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 419 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 430 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 447 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 447 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 447 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 447 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 458 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 467 column 201 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 470 column 667 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 474 column 1059 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 478 column 1352 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 484 column 1680 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 495 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 495 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 495 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 495 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 506 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 534 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 534 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 534 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 534 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 545 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 575 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 575 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 575 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 575 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 576 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 586 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 602 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 602 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 602 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 602 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 613 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 617 column 92 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" had invalid value "7C60B0" and has been replaced
line 633 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 633 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 633 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 633 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 634 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 644 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 659 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 659 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 659 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 659 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 670 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 674 column 92 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" had invalid value "7C60B0" and has been replaced
line 693 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 693 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 693 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 693 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 694 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 704 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 711 column 780 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 711 column 780 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 713 column 1023 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 713 column 1023 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 725 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 725 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 725 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 725 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 736 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 764 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 764 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 764 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 764 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 765 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 775 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 784 column 821 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 784 column 821 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 799 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 799 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 799 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 808 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 813 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 287 column 192 - Warning: trimming empty <span>
line 793 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 205 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 231 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 257 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 285 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 287 column 74 - Warning: <div> proprietary attribute "width"
line 292 column 674 - Warning: <div> proprietary attribute "width"
line 316 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 349 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 378 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 409 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 435 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 463 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 511 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 550 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 591 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 618 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 649 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 675 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 709 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 741 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 780 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 300 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md