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04-21-22 04:39:46 AM
Jul - General Chat - A new revolution in math! New poll - New thread - New reply
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Posted on 02-02-11 12:34:31 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Drag
I discovered the end of the numbers. Basically, a number that is so big, there are no other numbers that are bigger than it. Let's call it J.

If such a number exists, then everything must have a finite value, which is undeniably incorrect.

Now, I'm going to assume here that J is a real number, and that its definition is correct.
If we were to find J on a number line, the number line would have to end there. Otherwise, there could be values greater than J, which goes against the definition of J.

With this knowledge, we know that a number line must be finite. This means that everything else has to be finite, as a number line contains all real numbers. However, if everything is finite, then things such as irrational numbers cannot be irrational, as they must have a finite number of digits, allowing them to be represented by a simple fraction.

Some irrational numbers, such as pi, have been proven without a doubt to be irrational, though, so a number such as J cannot exist within the constraints of modern mathematics.
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Posted on 02-02-11 05:16:31 AM (last edited by Drag at 02-02-11 02:16 AM) Link | Quote
1964
Originally posted by The Red Snifit
With this knowledge, we know that a number line must be finite. This means that everything else has to be finite, as a number line contains all real numbers. However, if everything is finite, then things such as irrational numbers cannot be irrational, as they must have a finite number of digits, allowing them to be represented by a simple fraction.

In the context of a computer, everything IS finite.

This happens in real life too, everything has a beginning and end, doesn't it?

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Posted on 02-02-11 01:22:27 PM Link | Quote
Well, keep in mind that formats like floating-point are only approximations of real numbers and they can't store every real number So your computer representation of the approximation of pi runs out when its containing data type runs out of bits, but the actual number pi is still infinite.

In mathematics, there are an uncountably infinite amount of real numbers, and digits can go on indefinitely.

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Posted on 02-02-11 09:39:41 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Drag
J needs to be evaluated before anything else is evaluated, save for maybe things in parenthesis.

I used the same excuse in one of my attempts at solving zero division.

Needless to say, if that had actually worked, I wouldn't *not* have a Fields medal right now.
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Posted on 02-02-11 09:40:44 PM Link | Quote
When I was way younger, I tried to invent a number that's 1/0, like how i is sqrt(-1). It doesn't work, though.

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Posted on 02-02-11 09:41:48 PM Link | Quote

Originally posted by Terra
When I was way younger, I tried to invent a number that's 1/0, like how i is sqrt(-1). It doesn't work, though.

Nullity!

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Posted on 02-02-11 09:43:55 PM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
The freaky thing is how there is an irrational, thus, infinite (not finite--endless decimal points) between every integer, if I recall correctly.

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Posted on 02-02-11 09:47:43 PM Link | Quote
MM88 is correct.

Not only that, but between any 2 real numbers, even, say, 2.1 and 2.1000000000000000000000001, there are infinity more real numbers.

It's called an uncountable infinity.

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Posted on 02-02-11 09:48:11 PM Link | Quote
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Yep, and don't forget that 1 is infinitely larger than 0

10-∞ is sometimes treated as zero, I believe

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Posted on 02-02-11 09:50:53 PM Link | Quote
Yep, because lim x->-∞ 10x is 0.

10-1 = 0.1
10-2 = 0.01
10-3 = 0.001
Etc.

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Posted on 02-02-11 10:15:19 PM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
Hence, why you can't make all numbers finite. In the full number system, anyway.

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Posted on 02-02-11 11:26:46 PM Link | Quote
Even with limits, divisition by 0 can still be undefined when you get look at 0- and 0+

Fun.

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Posted on 02-02-11 11:27:24 PM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
Originally posted by Aerakin
Even with limits, divisition by 0 can still be undefined when you get look at 0- and 0+

Fun.


Indeed!

Lots of fun to be had, with indefinite math.

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