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Jul - General Chat - Sony does it again. And again. New poll - New thread - New reply
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Aerakin
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Posted on 09-01-07 09:57:24 AM Link | Quote
Oh god, the fingerprint USB device... why the hell do you need stuff like rootkit on THAT? Do they just enjoy screwing people over and over? "ONO THEY'RE GONNA POST THE USB DEVICE ON THE INTERNET".

Geez.

As for Bioshock, it's not surprising. Compagnies want money. If they can screw you over so you buy their game another time, they will (then again, they just push more people towards piracy).

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Posted on 09-01-07 12:18:36 PM Link | Quote
BioShock fucked me over on widescreen (I wanted to play it on 24 inch, not 12 inch )

Whenever it's on widescreen, the craphics eat themselves. On windowed, it's perfect, but so damn tiny.

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Rena
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Posted on 09-01-07 03:09:32 PM Link | Quote
JL2 - Post #844 - 09-01-07 10:09:32 AM
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Originally posted by Kles
By the way, what does BioShock have to do with Sony?
Originally posted by Wikipedia
SecuROM is a CD/DVD copy protection product, most often used for computer games, developed by Sony DADC.


Originally posted by Xkeeper
And what happens when a company goes out of business? What happens when 2K Games or SecuROM dies?

The advantage of "software" is that anyone can make an archival copy. There's no external factors; as long as the hardware and software are still in good condition, you can enjoy them as long as you want, trade them, whatever -- case in point, my NES still works after 15 years of joy.

But.... if playing something requires you to download or verify something from some arbitrary server, what happens when it dies? The game becomes worthless. There's no value left, any potential joy from it is erased and the game dies.
I'm glad someone here sees the problems with DRM. Hm, do I buy it and get a lot of hassle, possibly have my computer messed up, and get no guarantee that it will even work, or do I pirate it and have it just work, for free? Tough choice. There needs to be downsides, not upsides (aside from it being free), to piracy.

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Drag
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Posted on 09-01-07 03:46:33 PM; last edit by Drag on 09-01-07 03:48 PM Link | Quote
Drag's Post #181
This is why I don't like installing recent PC games... I dont' want to get caught up in vulnerability-inducing rootkits. And even if it's not that, I don't want to lose my rights to INSTALL A GAME I PAYED FOR.

DRM really is getting out of hand these days. We've survived FINE without it for years, why do we need it now? Don't tell me it's because of pirates, they've been around for MUCH longer than this form of DRM.

DRMs only hurt the people who legitimately own the game. Software crackers will always be able to defeat the DRM, so they're unaffected. The people that DRM tries to protect against will be unaffected, while the people who legitimately have copies will be hurt.

It's so pointless, only hurts the 'good', and we should just do away with DRMs entirely. There are enough people who will purchase the game, versus who will pirate it, and companies will still get plenty of money for sales, unless the game really sucks. (then it gets DOUBLE lolololololololol)

edit: dare I say that more people will BUY the game (instead of pirate it) if the game has no DRM?

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Kles

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Posted on 09-01-07 04:19:02 PM Link | Quote
Just so you know, they've announced that BioShock's copy protection scheme will slowly be tapered down until it's basically gone.

Still skeptical though.

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neotransotaku
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Posted on 09-01-07 04:31:34 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
And what happens when a company goes out of business? What happens when 2K Games or SecuROM dies?


Good point...first strong argument against SaaS. Basically, that holds true for any online service like phantasy star online for dreamcast. If I'm not mistaken, there are no more servers which one could connect to.

The essence of DRM, as it is today, is to ensure companies can make the most money they can. Whether it succeeds at doing that for companies is a different story, but that is the goal. I feel the only way to make DRM issue a moot point is for someone out there, say an arbitrator to say, "You have earned enough money for whatever you have produced". All of us should know that no one on this planet has the right or authority to do so.

Here is a way to be set for life: A lot of cracking has to do with deleting subroutines. Come up with a way where deleting/altering subroutines causes the game to no longer work.
InsertNameHere
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Posted on 09-01-07 06:19:01 PM Link | Quote
All the hassle over some retard programs in a videogame.

What are people thinking nowadays. Why cant they have protection like what the PS3 (And I think 360) has, like when you buy a game, the game will be activated to the user who bought it? That would save alot of time and money.

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Posted on 09-01-07 06:24:52 PM Link | Quote
DPP - [internet://board/post178.bit] - 09-01-07 06:24:52 PM
File Edit View Settings ?
Hey Dave, do you want a lend of my (random gen game)?

Dave: Yes?

Well too bad, since I used it on my system you can't use it!

That is what I can see happening in the future... (or soon with the ps3.. maybe)

* Darkdata hugs Nintendo and its crazy shareable software.

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Nicole

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Posted on 09-01-07 06:28:19 PM; last edit by Imajin on 09-01-07 06:28 PM Link | Quote
For how long will Nintendo be sharable, though? Don't pretend that Nintendo is better than any other company in things like this, just look at some of their NES-era policies...

I think things are going too far now... one example outside of the gaming realm is in Windows... I have a very screwed up computer that happens to use Windows XP. Now, this computer occasionally gets very screwed up and can not access the internet, and one possible solution has involved downloading patches from the Microsoft website. Now, in the past I could just download the patches onto this computer, and move them over on a USB drive. However, this computer has Windows 2000- therefore, Microsoft will not let me download XP patches anymore, because they can't tell if I have "Genuine Windows XP"... (which I do, by the way)

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Darkdata
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Posted on 09-01-07 06:31:44 PM Link | Quote
DPP - [internet://board/post179.bit] - 09-01-07 06:31:44 PM
File Edit View Settings ?
Originally posted by Imajin
For how long will Nintendo be sharable, though? Don't pretend that Nintendo is better than any other company in things like this, just look at some of their NES-era policies...


Point, I do hope that Nintendo learned it's lesson though... (More than likely not, but one can hope.)

At least with Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all making consoles there is competition, that should help keep things from going too far... maybe.

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Kles

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Posted on 09-01-07 06:46:07 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by InsertNameHere
All the hassle over some retard programs in a videogame.

What are people thinking nowadays. Why cant they have protection like what the PS3 (And I think 360) has, like when you buy a game, the game will be activated to the user who bought it? That would save alot of time and money.


That doesn't work. At all. It's also relatively easy to crack.

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Rena
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Posted on 09-02-07 04:16:13 AM Link | Quote
JL2 - Post #853 - 09-01-07 11:16:13 PM
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Originally posted by Drag
DRM really is getting out of hand these days. We've survived FINE without it for years, why do we need it now? Don't tell me it's because of pirates, they've been around for MUCH longer than this form of DRM.
Problems with the "DRM is necessary because of pirates " excuse:
1) Macrovision, a form of DRM, was first employed in 1985[1]. The Internet gained popularity in the 1990s[2]. That means Macrovision was used at least 5 years before the Internet became popular, not to mention in 1985, computers' processing power wouldn't allow for very good video compression and Internet connection speeds wouldn't allow for the transfer of such large files in any decent amount of time. The only "piracy" this really would have prevented is the person who buys 2 VCRs and copies the tapes from one to another and distributes them, and I somehow doubt that small-scale stuff was a huge problem. (And, of course, it also meant you couldn't make backups. We've all tried to play a VHS tape fairly recently only to find it wouldn't play anymore, right?)

2) There are tons of audio CDs out there with no DRM. Possibly millions. The audio CD - with a capacity of ~700MB - has existed for decades and still exists today, in an age when everyone has an Internet connection and a CD burner, speeds of up to 2MB/s are not uncommon (transfer the ISO in ~6 minutes), and ripping tools are available all over the place, even AFAIK included with Windows (Windows Media Player, which I believe can rip to WAV). Any idiot can effortlessly copy these CDs and share them on their favourite P2P network or burn copies for their friends. Yet for some reason this hasn't killed the format nor the artists/companies that use it without DRM.

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neotransotaku
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Posted on 09-02-07 04:42:28 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by HyperHacker
Yet for some reason this hasn't killed the format nor the artists/companies that use it without DRM.
But, majority of the music CDs then were sold during a time in which it was difficult to proliferate the music. RIAA didn't become noted until Napster came around, then DRM within music was born. Without RIAA intervention, I highly doubt that Sony would have had a need to develop the rootkit they are notoriously known for today. Audio CD sales aren't what they used to be in the 90's and they will gradually fade away no thanks to Apple.
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Posted on 09-02-07 07:01:40 AM Link | Quote
Speaking of DRM on obsolete games, EA released Command and Conquer as a free download. You can get the ISOs for each disc, for free.

I'm not sure if it's a limited time download, though.

linkie
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Posted on 09-02-07 01:15:02 PM; last edit by roxahris on 09-02-07 01:16 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by neotransotaku

Or, we need fast enough networks where the program is stored on the company's servers and serviced through an internet-like browser solely used to play the game.

Well, playing games off a server has been done before (BS-X and Sega Channel) on consoles, but now the games that were on them, the sequels, the add-ons, and the remakes don't exist, apart from the ROM dumps of them and whatever backups the companies have of them. And ROMS of them are rare and hard to find... BS Zelda ~Map2~ was sitting for ages on someones hard drive, when people thought it hadn't been dumped at all. Megaman: The Wily Wars has a US release with 60fps and an English translation on Sega Channel, but there arent any Sega Channel games on the internet that I know of. It's sad, really...

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Drag
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Posted on 09-02-07 03:39:26 PM Link | Quote
Drag's Post #186
It's a vicious cycle: People are purchasing some DRM-less product. Some company suddenly is scared about piracy, so they use DRM. Some people want the product, but don't like the DRM, which leads to piracy. The company updates the DRM, some cracker cracks it, and thousands of people with legit copies are screwed.

Steve Jobs is against DRM, and I think some other big-names are too. So, not everyone agrees with it.

I personally would like to see an end to all DRM, because DRM does more bad than it does good. More often than not, pirates are able to remove the DRM, so they're unaffected by it, meanwhile the people being screwed over by it are the people who legitimately own a copy of the product. DRM just leads to more piracy, which is the opposite of what DRM creaters intended, right?

OR... DRM is a huge conspiracy to cause MORE piracy, so that pirates can be found and piracy can be "shut down", in a "I just don't like them" way.

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Rena
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Posted on 09-02-07 10:12:20 PM Link | Quote
JL2 - Post #862 - 09-02-07 05:12:20 PM
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Originally posted by neotransotaku
Originally posted by HyperHacker
Yet for some reason this hasn't killed the format nor the artists/companies that use it without DRM.
But, majority of the music CDs then were sold during a time in which it was difficult to proliferate the music. RIAA didn't become noted until Napster came around, then DRM within music was born. Without RIAA intervention, I highly doubt that Sony would have had a need to develop the rootkit they are notoriously known for today. Audio CD sales aren't what they used to be in the 90's and they will gradually fade away no thanks to Apple.
There are still plenty of CDs around today without any DRM. Of course the audio CD format is finally dying thanks to digital distribution, but it's survived this long.

Also, iTunes' DRM is piss-easy to get around, and they're doing pretty well.

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Jul - General Chat - Sony does it again. And again. New poll - New thread - New reply


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