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Tiden
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Posted on 08-13-07 11:12:55 PM; last edit by hydraphatphelinez on 08-13-07 11:13 PM Link | Quote
So I've decided to redo my layout using only CSS1 declarations (since Firefox apparently cannot get the box model correct using relative positioning and floating elements.) This only only uses margin+padding for positioning as well as some hackery using the float pseudo-element.

Also, selectors rule.

Also, it may/may not load correctly. My connection has been flaky like this the past few days.

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Tarale
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Posted on 08-14-07 02:14:30 AM Link | Quote
If you are going to use a serif font, please use Georgia. Georgia is a font specifically designed for the screen -- it is pretty much the most readable serif font for the screen.

If you would like to use a sans-serif font, I recommend Verdana. Verdana was designed by the same guy who made Georgia, and again was designed for the screen. It should be the most readable sans-serif font for the screen.



Other than that, it looks good. Course, there are a million things I would do with the font other than what I suggested above, but that's just me.

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Posted on 08-14-07 03:04:15 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Tarale
If you are going to use a serif font, please use Georgia. Georgia is a font specifically designed for the screen -- it is pretty much the most readable serif font for the screen.

I was actually specifying a generic font-family (I think some standard specifies that it's recommended to specify a particular typeface, and a generic font-family as a last resort.)

I have to admit though, this does look really nice.

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Posted on 08-14-07 03:58:27 AM Link | Quote
Ah. Yes, well I tend to specify a specific font first. Georgia is a "web safe" font, in that it will work in all versions of Windows and also on Mac OS X (Apple have bought font licencing for all the core "web fonts" from Microsoft)

If you want to know which are the "safe" fonts, etc, go see this page: Common fonts to all versions of Windows and Mac Equivalents. I stick to Georgia and Verdana for nearly everything though myself.

Oh, and can I suggest that you add some padding so the text moves away from the edges of the box?

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Posted on 08-14-07 04:02:12 AM Link | Quote
JL2 - Post #641 - 08-13-07 11:02:12 PM
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Originally posted by hydraphatphelinez
So I've decided to redo my layout using only CSS1 declarations (since Firefox apparently cannot get the box model correct using relative positioning and floating elements.) This only only uses margin+padding for positioning as well as some hackery using the float pseudo-element.
In my experience, position: relative generally means your element will be placed a random distance from where it should be.

Also, the signature showing up on hover is annoying, and pointless since it takes up the same amount of space without anyway.

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Posted on 08-14-07 04:04:38 AM Link | Quote
Because he uses visibility and not display.
Also, my layout is currently just two <div>s.

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[Posted by The Black Parade]
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Posted on 08-14-07 04:46:56 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by The Black Parade
Because he uses visibility and not display.
Also, my layout is currently just two <div>s.

Not bad for two divs.

Although, I wonder how creative I can get without breaking the page...

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Posted on 08-14-07 04:50:50 AM Link | Quote
You can probably get pretty creative. I don't think I've ever had any problems with my layouts breaking the pages, and I tend not to hold back with my code. At all.

It's just important to test thoroughly in various browsers first.

The biggest problem I've had reported to me were some font size weirdness issues in a particular build of Internet Explorer, but I didn't break the actual page or anything, just had some small text.

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Posted on 08-14-07 04:54:57 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Tarale
You can probably get pretty creative. I don't think I've ever had any problems with my layouts breaking the pages, and I tend not to hold back with my code. At all.

It's just important to test thoroughly in various browsers first.

The biggest problem I've had reported to me were some font size weirdness issues in a particular build of Internet Explorer, but I didn't break the actual page or anything, just had some small text.

The only problem I've had in my previous one was where people were complaining that my post was overflowing into other posts. The only thing I could suspect was that Firefox has a lackluster box model implementation. It actually displayed nearly-correct in IE.

Although this one (the current one) apparently has no problems in Firefox. I intend to keep it this way (if just so I can avoid saying "Firefox has an awful box-model implementation" )

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Posted on 08-14-07 04:58:34 AM; last edit by Tarale on 08-14-07 05:15 AM Link | Quote
Unfortunately, yours is overflowing in Firefox 2.0.0.6 for Windows.

EDIT: I tried to find your code, but it didn't let me see it -- might you tell me what you are doing? Not that I will get much of a chance to troubleshoot, I do that for a living and that means I'm on telephone calls right now...

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Posted on 08-14-07 02:13:57 PM; last edit by BooUrns on 08-14-07 02:15 PM Link | Quote
My main problem with your layout is how it takes over ten seconds to load half the time.



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Posted on 08-14-07 10:03:31 PM Link | Quote
User: Chris Profile - Message - Threads - Posts
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 Yep. It takes a while to load here as well. It was working for me before though; perhaps it was modified it?

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Posted on 08-15-07 08:00:35 PM Link | Quote
JL2 - Post #650 - 08-15-07 03:00:35 PM
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We need attachments so we can have our layout files hosted locally. I haven't heard any complaints since I started using Imageshack (for that matter, HP's layout didn't lag for me either), but uploading the pictures to it takes forever, and your stylesheets have to be inline, which means:
1) No dynamic CSS by PHP scripts.
2) Edits don't affect old posts (except for people who use auto-update).
[) Every post contains a copy, which increases the page size.
4) You have to go through and remove all the line breaks and paste this big WALL OF TEXT in your header which is a pain.

Originally posted by Tarale
You can probably get pretty creative. I don't think I've ever had any problems with my layouts breaking the pages, and I tend not to hold back with my code. At all.

It's just important to test thoroughly in various browsers first.

The biggest problem I've had reported to me were some font size weirdness issues in a particular build of Internet Explorer, but I didn't break the actual page or anything, just had some small text.

I've found there are basically three rules to layout coding:
1) Using position: relative to move more than a very small distance = your element will appear in a random place on the page.
2) It won't work in IE. If you're lucky, it won't be a big problem, but there'll be some stupid glitch.
[) What you see in your local test file may not always match the board. I had to add a border to the top of my post box, below the title bar, or else there'd be a big gap there.
(I'm not counting "use common sense" and "code properly so it doesn't break other things" because those don't just apply to layouts, and "you can't use Javascript" falls under common sense. )

Other than that, you can basically do whatever you could in an HTML page if you know how to pull it off.

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Posted on 08-17-07 07:49:55 AM Link | Quote
I generally try to avoid using position unless I absolutely have to. I've not yet found a good reason for me to use it in a post layout so I've never used it.

Different browsers seem to like to interpret position stuff in quite different ways.

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Posted on 08-17-07 08:41:01 PM; last edit by hydraphatphelinez on 08-17-07 09:45 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by BooUrns
My main problem with your layout is how it takes over ten seconds to load half the time.


My connection was essentially nonexistant the last couple of days.

That and I'm sending 304's for the css file and images. (304 -> Cached. Also with HTTP Cache-Control headers.)

Also, anybody that has been experiencing overflow problems, take note: I cannot replicate the problem on my end. Yes, this is with the latest version of Firefox.

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Posted on 08-18-07 04:32:00 AM Link | Quote
I would take a screenshot but I can't get your layout to load at all anymore, and it halts the page when I try

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Posted on 08-19-07 05:10:08 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Tarale
I would take a screenshot but I can't get your layout to load at all anymore, and it halts the page when I try

You should be able to load it now. Anyone else that's been having problems with my layout *after* I've edited the stylesheet should try doing CTRL+F5 before complaining that it's broken.

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Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

31 database queries, 10 query cache hits.
Query execution time:  0.108376 seconds
Script execution time:  0.045462 seconds
Total render time:  0.153838 seconds


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line 256 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 266 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 277 column 2465 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 277 column 2465 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 277 column 2576 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 286 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 286 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 286 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 286 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 297 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 305 column 3110 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 305 column 3110 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 307 column 4581 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 307 column 4581 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 313 column 37 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 321 column 288 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" had invalid value "888888" and has been replaced
line 328 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 328 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 339 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 346 column 184 - Warning: <div> anchor "post" already defined
line 348 column 446 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 348 column 446 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 350 column 577 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 350 column 577 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 359 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 359 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 359 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 359 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 360 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 370 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 379 column 2087 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 379 column 2087 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 381 column 2404 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 390 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 390 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 401 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 408 column 184 - Warning: <div> anchor "post" already defined
line 410 column 538 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 410 column 538 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 413 column 1076 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 413 column 1076 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 415 column 1316 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 415 column 1316 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 424 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 424 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 424 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 424 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 425 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 435 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 444 column 2153 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 444 column 2153 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 444 column 2265 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 452 column 11 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" had invalid value "7C60B0" and has been replaced
line 453 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 453 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 453 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 453 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 454 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 464 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 471 column 517 - Warning: <table> attribute "height" has invalid value "260px"
line 471 column 700 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 473 column 1201 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 473 column 1316 - Warning: <tr> attribute "height" has invalid value "10px"
line 481 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 481 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 481 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 481 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 482 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 492 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 499 column 2383 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 499 column 2383 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 499 column 2503 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 499 column 2503 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 507 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 507 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 507 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 507 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 518 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 526 column 2660 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 526 column 2660 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 534 column 3562 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 534 column 3562 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 540 column 4317 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 540 column 4317 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 541 column 4563 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 541 column 4563 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 543 column 6014 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 543 column 6014 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 551 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 551 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 551 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 551 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 552 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 562 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 571 column 2159 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 580 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 580 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 591 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 600 column 404 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 605 column 861 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 605 column 861 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 614 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 614 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 614 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 614 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 615 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 625 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 632 column 1958 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 632 column 1958 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 632 column 2070 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 641 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 641 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 652 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 659 column 184 - Warning: <div> anchor "post" already defined
line 659 column 409 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 659 column 409 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 660 column 516 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 660 column 516 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 660 column 731 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 660 column 731 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 670 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 670 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 670 column 244 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 679 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 684 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 664 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 208 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 241 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 271 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 302 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 318 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 344 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 375 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 406 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 440 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 469 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 471 column 517 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 471 column 517 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "background"
line 471 column 651 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 471 column 782 - Warning: <tr> proprietary attribute "height"
line 471 column 989 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 471 column 1033 - Warning: <tr> proprietary attribute "height"
line 473 column 1316 - Warning: <tr> proprietary attribute "height"
line 497 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 523 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 567 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 596 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 630 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 657 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 329 warnings and 2 errors!

The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md