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Deleted User
Collection of nobodies
Posted on 10-28-09 01:31:34 PM (last edited by TheKinoko at 10-30-09 06:53 AM) Link | Quote
Yup. Here's my brand new layout. Opinions about it are welcome (heh, that's the whole purpose of the thread )

Link (leads nowhere; do not click)

Originally posted by nobody
That was posted by nobody.

Okay, I'm lying...
it was posted by myself


KinokoLayout v1.0
Inspired from layouts like Bitmap's and 303darthbobby's ones.
Note: Look-wise only. I did NOT just copy-paste their layout code and change the color of the border.

Technical info:
Layout uses two divs with external style sheet
Border color: #0012ef #0012aa
Signature color: #6676fa
Font: Lucida Bright / Georgia / Arial

If you don't like external style sheets, tell me now.
I did read the announcement about external style sheets. While I'm hoping my hosting service will not disappear, I did test the thing with a wrong filename for the style sheet. Ofcourse it broke the layout, but didn't affect loading time.

Edit: 10/30/09 -> my hosting service is down (temporally). Using Firefox, auto-updating disabled. My posts don't seem to affect loading time.
Edit2: yay! it's back

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Did you know that, in japanese, 'kinoko' means 'mushroom'?

Tarale
Catgirl
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C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 10-28-09 01:42:53 PM Link | Quote
HEY CAN YOU SEE ME
Seems OK. Personally I'm not a big fan of high-contrast colours like that now that computers are capable of far more nuance; but if you're going for a retro look that's fine.

I hope you have set up a font stack in your CSS in case people don't have Lucida Bright.

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IIIIIIII'M A DODGY HACK
Deleted User
Collection of nobodies
Posted on 10-28-09 01:47:23 PM (last edited by TheKinoko at 10-28-09 10:48 AM) Link | Quote
I'm going simplistic, yeah... maybe in the future I will make something with more nuances, like you're saying... but this is better than no layout. And I think it looks good

By the way, I think Lucida Bright always comes with Windows... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
But okay. *goes back to editing the style sheet*

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[Posted by TheKinoko]
Did you know that, in japanese, 'kinoko' means 'mushroom'?
Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 10-28-09 01:50:26 PM Link | Quote
HEY CAN YOU SEE ME
Yeah, I think it's one of the Windows (possibly Microsoft Office) fonts.

I have a stack set up here:

font-family: "Helvetica Neue", "Helvetica", "Arial", sans-serif;

So, if people have Helvetica Neue, they will see that, but if not, then Helvetica... and if not that, then Arial, then after that I frankly don't give a damn what they see.

Full disclosure: I'm on a Mac, I couldn't see Lucida Bright.

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IIIIIIII'M A DODGY HACK
Deleted User
Collection of nobodies
Posted on 10-28-09 01:52:08 PM Link | Quote
Hmm... I see. Added Arial and sans-serif too.

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Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 10-28-09 02:01:16 PM (last edited by Tarale at 10-28-09 11:11 AM) Link | Quote
HEY CAN YOU SEE ME
Cool. Doing so ultimately gives you more control of what happens if someone doesn't have a particular typeface.

And it turns out that I do have Lucida Bright, but it wasn't activated.

This paragraph should appear in either Garamond, Hoefler Text, Palatino, or Palatino Linotype depending on what you've got installed on your computer.

EDIT: And I'd lean towards using Georgia instead of Arial, if you are going to stick with a serifed font like Lucida Bright.

Lucida Bright, Didot, Georgia, Big Caslon?

Georgia is available by default on Windows and on Mac, it's considered one of the true "safe" web fonts.

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IIIIIIII'M A DODGY HACK
Deleted User
Collection of nobodies
Posted on 10-28-09 02:39:37 PM Link | Quote
Hey, Georgia is actually quite similar to Lucida Bright!
*goes back to editing the style sheet once again*

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Lunaria

Moon Bunny! :3
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Posted on 10-28-09 05:16:05 PM Link | Quote
I think making the blue a bit darker won't hurt...

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Deleted User
Collection of nobodies
Posted on 10-28-09 05:46:57 PM Link | Quote
Is it okay like that?

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Lunaria

Moon Bunny! :3
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Posted on 10-28-09 05:49:21 PM Link | Quote
I can't see much change to be honest! XD

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Deleted User
Collection of nobodies
Posted on 10-28-09 05:55:42 PM Link | Quote
Try refreshing. I did change the color from #0012ef to #0012aa. I can see the change.

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— BlackRose —
Transforming cats into robots since 1989!
Posted on 10-28-09 06:00:04 PM Link | Quote
I'm looking at the layout, and personally, trying to read the blue text on black is very difficult. Cooler colours tend to do that. Also, small serifed fonts do not work well with readability Headers are fine where the text is larger than the surrounding text, but body copy on screen should be sans-serif.

Just my two cents~

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I could probably put something neat in here...
Deleted User
Collection of nobodies
Posted on 10-28-09 06:04:51 PM Link | Quote
Made text bold. Is it more readable now?

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Lunaria

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Posted on 10-28-09 06:05:39 PM Link | Quote
Ah, much better color now! ^o^

The layout is simple, but it works! (Maybe that's what you aimed for?)

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Deleted User
Collection of nobodies
Posted on 10-28-09 06:18:20 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Lunamon
(Maybe that's what you aimed for?)


Yup.
Since the only external file is the style sheet, it loads quite fast.
It is simple and small, without looking bad

That's annoying when you can't read someone's post because his layout isn't completely loaded and the text is unreadable without the background.

Also, I didn't put a picture at the right, and won't because it reduces the space for the text. On small screens like 1024*768, it makes the post look cluttered. I even saw a layout where the picture is at the left, it looks weird to me.

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Tarale
Catgirl
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Posted on 10-29-09 12:13:14 AM (last edited by Tarale at 10-28-09 09:13 PM) Link | Quote
HEY CAN YOU SEE ME
Strictly speaking, that blue doesn't have a strong enough luminosity contrast ratio to pass muster when it comes to readability.

That means it fails accessibility testing, and that is why people will complain it's difficult to read.

I took the hue you're using, adjusted the luminosity, and the darkest blue you can get away with (on black) to get a luminosity of over 5.00 is:


#6676FA This is the darkest blue that passes luminosity contrast testing, and should therefore be readable against black.

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IIIIIIII'M A DODGY HACK
Deleted User
Collection of nobodies
Posted on 10-29-09 10:10:00 AM Link | Quote
Hm. You're talking about the signature, aren't you?
Changed its color to #6676fa. Is it more readable now?

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Tarale
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Posted on 10-29-09 10:27:56 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by TheKinoko
Hm. You're talking about the signature, aren't you?
Changed its color to #6676fa. Is it more readable now?

Much more readable, yes.

If you ever want to test to see if a colour might be difficult for someone to read, try the Vision Australia Colour Contrast Analyser. It's an excellent tool for ensuring your text is readable.
Deleted User
Collection of nobodies
Posted on 10-29-09 10:32:32 AM Link | Quote
Thank you

By the way, I changed the signature <font> tag to a <div>, since you said <font> is deprecated.

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Tarale
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Posted on 10-29-09 10:43:01 AM Link | Quote
Yep. Font is deprecated.

And it's a good thing anyway, because you have so much more control when you use CSS. CSS can do so, SOOO much more than the Font tag ever could
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Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

29 database queries, 5 query cache hits.
Query execution time:  0.091542 seconds
Script execution time:  0.028676 seconds
Total render time:  0.120218 seconds


TidyHTML vomit below
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line 446 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 446 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 446 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 447 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 457 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 467 column 641 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 474 column 37 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 485 column 380 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 485 column 380 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 489 column 901 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 489 column 984 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 489 column 1067 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 489 column 1150 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 496 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 496 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 496 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 496 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 507 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 527 column 37 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 535 column 303 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 535 column 386 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 535 column 469 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 535 column 552 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 542 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 542 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 542 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 542 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 543 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 553 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 562 column 307 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 562 column 307 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 564 column 677 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 564 column 677 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 570 column 37 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 577 column 130 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 577 column 130 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 579 column 374 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 579 column 457 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 579 column 540 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 579 column 623 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" lacks value
line 586 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 586 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 586 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 586 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 587 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 597 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 606 column 192 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 606 column 192 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 606 column 302 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 606 column 302 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 615 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 615 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 615 column 245 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 624 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 629 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 609 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 164 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 213 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 228 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 257 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 278 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 303 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 326 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 352 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 354 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 354 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "background"
line 367 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 392 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 394 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 394 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "background"
line 407 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 423 column 39 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 437 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 462 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 464 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 464 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "background"
line 479 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 512 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 532 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 558 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 575 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 602 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 317 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md