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Jul - General Chat - A bit of a problem here.. New poll - New thread - New reply
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Anthony
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Posted on 08-31-09 07:57:17 PM Link | Quote
I have no idea where this goes, I'm guessing in this place.
So here's my problem:

I start college in October (taking Game Design)
It's a 2 year program, plus a 4 month internship at the end of the program.
Problem is, it conflicts with the time of every (and I mean every) Japanese course near me.
And I really really really really reallly wanna learn Japanese, and master that language before going into the workforce!

I was thinking of buying a Japanese Software Program thingy or something, what do you guys think?
303darthbobby
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Posted on 08-31-09 07:59:22 PM Link | Quote
Rosetta Stone offers a free demo CD of their software that has Japanese. I'd at least look into that. If I get time, I might see if I can find you a link.

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Posted on 08-31-09 07:59:36 PM Link | Quote

I see no reason why getting your start with Rosetta Stone could hurt you. I'd say if you can't get the course, you should go for the next best thing until then.

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303darthbobby
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Posted on 08-31-09 08:05:17 PM Link | Quote
Here's that link: http://www.rosettastone.com/personal/form/demo-request

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Anthony
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Posted on 08-31-09 08:05:41 PM Link | Quote
Thanks guys, I'll give Rosetta a try. Hope she's hot.
Bitmap
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Posted on 08-31-09 08:44:54 PM (last edited by Bitmap at 08-31-09 05:45 PM) Link | Quote

Originally posted by Anthony
Hope she's hot.


You'll be disappointed.

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Erika
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Posted on 08-31-09 11:51:22 PM Link | Quote
Take private lessons. Most major cities should have language centers which offer them with pretty flexible schedules. Plus if you take them one on one as opposed to in a group setting you tend to learn even faster.

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Kles

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Posted on 09-01-09 09:42:33 AM (last edited by Kles at 09-01-09 10:41 AM) Link | Quote
As a linguist in training and novice Japanese learner myself, I can say with confidence that the Rosetta Stone is NOT the way to go. Simply put, it doesn't work. It MIGHT be a good supplement for a language closer to English, but not Japanese. It certainly will not help a novice. Here's what I suggest:

1. First off, you have to learn hiragana and katakana (though hiragana is more useful). Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/hiragana and start memorizing them. Here's a site that does flash cards with romaji: http://www.manythings.org/q/kana.php?u=hiragana. It is important that as soon as you know the hiragana, you start thinking of all Japanese writing in terms of hiragana rather than with Latin characters.

2. After you feel comfortable with hiragana and katakana, go to http://www.guidetojapanese.org - this is a very thorough and helpful page on Japanese grammar. Study it well, and use as a reference. You'll never want to use another site. Another helpful site is http://www.epochrypha.com/japanese/verbs/verbs.html. This site will provide you with the ways to conjugate regular Japanese verbs, so that you can always have a handy reference on which form to use.

3. While you study the grammar, go back to www.readthekanji.com and set JLPT 4 as a set. This is the Japanese Language Proficiency Test level 4 kanji and word list, and it will be useful to study. Unfortunately, the JLPT isn't perfect in that it teaches you more garbage words at first (like how to say "nth day of the month") that aren't very useful to novices. So, in supplement, you may also want to study this page: http://smart.fm/lists/23108-japanese-core-2000-step-1-kanji-focus - as it contains more useful words. Higher levels of the JLPT have more useful words, but you've gotta start somewhere. Obviously, move on up the more you complete it.

4. Configure your computer to type Japanese characters. You can do this by enabling the IME. Go to control panel, regional and language options, and then the languages tab, and check "install files for East Asian languages." After you've installed it, click the details button on the same tab, click add, then add Japanese. You should be capable of typing in Japanese now. Here are the hotkeys for the IME:

Alt+Shift: Switch between languages (in your case, English and Japanese)
Ctrl+CapsLock: Switch to hiragana (when in Japanese, of course)
Alt+CapsLock: Switch to katakana (when in Japanese, again)
When you've typed a Japanese word, press space to bring up a list and convert it to the proper kKanji.

5. If you want to customize your own flash cards rather than use readthekanji (which is also a good idea, as some contend that flash cards which you've created yourself tend to be better than premade ones), you can use mnemosyne (www.mnemosyne-proj.org/) or Anki (ichi2.net/anki/). They're pretty equal on functionality.

6. Most importantly, EXPERIENCE Japanese. Studying a grammar text and memorizing kanji can only do so much, and in practical use, you'll sound incredibly stiff and unnatural. You have to read Japanese texts - even if it's just trying to read the comments on a YouTube video or something (though, as in English, the quality of language is kind of low on YouTube, but you get the point). You've gotta get out there and experience the material more than studying it.

Here is a useful Firefox plugin: http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/ - it will allow you to mouse over Japanese words that you don't remember so that you can better understand the sentence. Try not to rely on it too much, though!

Finally, this forum is more about personal life problems and getting support in difficult or confusing times in life. This thread is more suited to the general forum, so I'm moving it there.

Good luck!

edit: readthekanji doesn't provide you with romaji entries for the hiragana, so I've been told, making it useless for that. I've amended the section recommending that.
VGFreak877

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Posted on 09-01-09 12:14:31 PM Link | Quote
Level 20, 771 Days, 121 Posts, 36963 EXP, 5476 EXP Next, 458 EXP per post

Yes, I've also heard that Rosetta Stone is really not the way to go -- it hurts you more than helps you.

Kles, I've been studying Japanese for 6 years now, I didn't even know about some of those links myself. Thanks for posting them.

Also, if you have a Nintendo DS, I would recommend getting some Japanese learning games (when you are good enough though, since some of those "games" act as review). I use the Kanji Kentei software to practice the stroke order and readings. But believe it or not, I have no problems with the kanji compared to the particles -- I often (but not always) mess them up.

Another site I would recommend is YesJapan. If you don't mind paying a little bit monthly there are over 200 videos you can watch and about 60 lessons you can look through to help you learn. I've been using it since 2003, so I would recommend it. Good luck to you!

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Posted on 09-01-09 01:20:18 PM Link | Quote
Thanks for those links as well Kles. I've wanted to learn a bit of Japanese myself for quite some time but never really knew where to start. I'd installed IME too but didn't really konw how to work it so thanks for that as well. I'll have to remember these links.

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Posted on 09-01-09 06:00:13 PM Link | Quote
I would also like to thank Kles for the links as I am also interested in learning Japanese and had no idea where to start. There was a book that I tried learning from about a year ago although school and other things got in the way and now I've forgotten almost everything that I learned .





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303darthbobby
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Posted on 09-01-09 06:15:07 PM Link | Quote
I never liked Rosetta, but I always thought it was just me, as everyone else seemed to love it. All I got out of it was 'boy under table' in Spanish, and even that I don't remember.

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Posted on 09-02-09 12:55:54 AM (last edited by Terra at 09-01-09 09:58 PM) Link | Quote
I've taken German classes and learned some German, but I can't follow enough of the language to hold a conversation or read a non-trivial book in German.

Writing it is worse. German has 3 genders, indicated by die/der/das as the article. So you have something like "der Tisch" (the table) and you have to know that it uses the "der" article. It's rather arbitrary. Das Kind (the child), der Apfel (the apple), die Straße (the street). The really hard part is that sometimes the article changes. Like, if something's the direct object, der changes to den, so it's "Der Tisch ist hier" (the table is here) but "Ich sehe den Tisch" (I see the table). After prepositions, you get other ones, like der/das becoming dem sometimes and even die becoming der or den, so it's hard to know the gender of a word without grammatically picking apart the sentence in ways I'm not used to doing. Also, they represent some instances of English "to" and "of" and distinguish in/into and on/onto by varying the article. Argh.

Then, there are plurals. German plurals seem to be pretty much random:
Apfel - Äpfel: add Umlaut
Hand - Hände: add Umlaut and add ending -e
Buch - Bücher: add Umlaut and add ending -er
Euro - Euro: keep the word unchanged
Auto - Autos: add ending -s
Brücke - Brücken: add ending -n
Bus - Busse: add ending -se
Lehrerin - Lehrerinnen: add ending -nen
Kind - Kinder: add ending -er
Frau - Frauen: add ending -en

I may have missed some there too, and sometimes you add similar endings for other reasons too, like -s or -es for possessives and -n or -en to some nouns sometimes for no very good reason. Like, Student is usually singular and Studenten plural, but sometimes Studenten is the singular too. And don't think an Umlaut means a word is plural, because some words with Umlaut are singular (or non-nouns, like über which is a preposition "over"). So sometimes I know a German word but not its plural, or I don't know how to use it in a grammatically correct sentence because I don't know if it's der Arm, die Arm, or das Arm.

And it didn't help that one of my German teachers was pretty bad. He'd basically write a bunch of words on the board for us to learn and not really use them in a sentence or anything. One day we just watched a European football (soccer) game on someone's laptop and the teacher occasionally wrote a word on the board.
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Posted on 09-02-09 07:10:19 PM Link | Quote

Wait. What does German have to do with this?

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Posted on 09-02-09 07:11:39 PM Link | Quote

Durch, für, gegen, ohne und um sind immer Akkusativ! Aus, außer, bei, mit, nach, seit, von, zu, und gegenüber sind immer Dativ!

I can't believe that I remember that much! German's not too hard, after a year or so, the der/die/das come naturally and you can start to guess what goes where, though some are still kinda vague.

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Posted on 09-02-09 07:13:38 PM Link | Quote

Ach. Now you're bring back my memories of Frau Schuler's German I-III classes...

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