Jul -- NO! GO TO STAR!: Okay guys, I had an idea for a game

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Jul - NO! GO TO STAR! - Okay guys, I had an idea for a game

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Hiryuu

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Posted on 07-27-09 06:22:49 PM

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	Originally posted by FirePhoenix ... Abilities: ... I'll probably need to append my stuff on this. ____________________

Sukasa

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Posted on 07-28-09 02:23:50 AM

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Well, running into a couple difficulties. When it comes to performance, software blitting just isn't going to cut it, so either I cut features out of the engine (from 4 tilemaps at a time to 1), or I have to switch to openGL. This wouldn't be so bad except that I'm not a MacOS/Linux coder and as such I'd have no way to write the code for those OSes, which I'm not happy about since that seems like quite a slap in the face for a game meant to involve everyone who wants to be a part of it. So yeah, thoughts on this?

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— FPzero —
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Posted on 07-28-09 02:53:40 AM (last edited by FirePhoenix at 07-27-09 11:54 PM)

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Well, I think that Tales of Symphonia 1 had some pretty good battle themes, so maybe some songs along the lines of those themes would be great for my boss battles. Here's a few links:

Fatalize
The End of a Thought
Keep Your Guard Up!
Final Destination (about 30 seconds in to end)

I can supply mp3s if needed.

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Hiryuu

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:01:00 AM

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	Course we wouldn't be using them since they aren't public domain. ____________________

— FPzero —
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Posted on 07-28-09 03:03:40 AM

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I never said we'd actually use them, I just said that I can supply them for reference.

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Hiryuu

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:20:12 AM

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	I was gonna wait until Kei actually showed us what he excels in before I made any suggestions. You know...just in case any of my suggestions aren't I can at least get an idea where I can go with it. Remember we only have one composer on this so far. Anything you overwhelm said person with is asking for it. ____________________

Tyty

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:21:23 AM

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Hiryuu: I asked smp to do some music too. That makes 2 composers.

Gotta think some references up for what I want for the rest of my levels.

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Sukasa

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:23:02 AM

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Hm, in an effort to tone down the requirements on this engine, I'm looking at axing two of the four possible background tilemaps, removing the alpha channel, and dropping to 16-bit colour. It sounds drastic, but considering that's what a lot of SNES games used (MMX, MMX2, etc) and did fairly well with, I'd think 2 layers + sprites should be able to work fairly well. There's still going to be an index transparency available for tiles, though.

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— FPzero —
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Posted on 07-28-09 03:26:01 AM

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Too bad we won't be able to have scrolling parallax and true RGBA, but if this is the easiest way for you to make it accessible for all, I guess I can't really complain.

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Xkeeper

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:26:45 AM

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What the hell requirements are you trying to go for, "Runs on a 386"?

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:28:11 AM

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Originally posted by Sukasa
Well, running into a couple difficulties. When it comes to performance, software blitting just isn't going to cut it, so either I cut features out of the engine (from 4 tilemaps at a time to 1), or I have to switch to openGL. This wouldn't be so bad except that I'm not a MacOS/Linux coder and as such I'd have no way to write the code for those OSes, which I'm not happy about since that seems like quite a slap in the face for a game meant to involve everyone who wants to be a part of it. So yeah, thoughts on this?

Okay on second thought honestly just drop support for OS X and Linux.

Linux can get by with Wine and OSX users can learn to dual boot.

The population of non-Windows on this board is near zero anyway, so...

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Sukasa

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:28:20 AM

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Hm, at least there'll still be two separate layers, right?

And if I or someone can figure out a good way to put together hardware acceleration, I (or they) can always re-enable the extra layers or whatever, and more as it becomes possible.

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Hiryuu

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:29:15 AM

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	He does have a bit of a point...considering that this is the first, I'd worry about a single OS first before porting to others. ____________________

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:29:43 AM

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My suggestion in IRC was to code it for windows first and then work on OS/Linux conversions, that way we could keep all the features we want.

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Sukasa

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:29:47 AM

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Xk: more like because 4 layers at 60 FPS means over 80,000 blits per frame, plus sprites/etc. This all (previously) at 32bpp RGBA.

But eh, if I just run it windows-only I could just refer to my previous post and it's all good.

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:30:41 AM

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Originally posted by Xkeeper
Linux can get by with Wine and OSX users can learn to dual boot.

The population of non-Windows on this board is near zero anyway, so...

But then you'll get the "OMG YOU MUST SUPPORT THOSE PLATFORMS YOU HEATHENS" lolvocal users who don't know when to shut up.

(yes, drop support for both

)

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Xkeeper

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:30:47 AM

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80,000 blits/frame? What.

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:30:49 AM

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smp and Peardian are the only two on here using Macs.

And isn't there a Wine for Macs too?

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Sukasa

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:33:11 AM (last edited by Sukasa at 07-28-09 12:33 AM)

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Originally posted by Xkeeper
80,000 blits/frame? What.

21x16 tiles drawn per layer. 4 layers. That's 1344 tiles blitted per layer per frame. 60FPS. That's 80,640 blits.

Now try and factor sprites in there. Simply put, trying to render that in software is like trying to invade the white house with a toothpick.

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Posted on 07-28-09 03:35:19 AM

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Solution: Blit all tiles to an external layer first, then only update that layer when you do something to it.

You don't redraw the whole fucking nametable every frame.

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Jul - NO! GO TO STAR! - Okay guys, I had an idea for a game

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line 268 column 85 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 268 column 128 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 268 column 128 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 268 column 171 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 268 column 171 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 268 column 214 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 268 column 214 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 268 column 257 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 268 column 257 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 268 column 300 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 268 column 300 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 268 column 343 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 268 column 343 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 268 column 386 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 268 column 386 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 268 column 429 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 268 column 429 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 268 column 472 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 268 column 472 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 268 column 515 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 268 column 515 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 270 column 33 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 273 column 37 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 280 column 99 - Warning: <table> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "ffffff" and has been replaced
line 280 column 530 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 287 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 287 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 287 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 287 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 298 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 305 column 788 - Warning: <table> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "FFFFFF" and has been replaced
line 305 column 933 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 305 column 971 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 305 column 1035 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 305 column 1104 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 305 column 1142 - Warning: <td> attribute "valign" has invalid value "center"
line 305 column 1142 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 309 column 1578 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 309 column 1648 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 309 column 1713 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 309 column 1758 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 317 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 317 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 317 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 317 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 328 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 335 column 74 - Warning: <table> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "FFFFFF" and has been replaced
line 337 column 568 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 344 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 345 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 345 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 345 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 345 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 356 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 42 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 42 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 85 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 85 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 128 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 128 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 171 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 171 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 214 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 214 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 257 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 257 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 300 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 300 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 343 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 343 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 386 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 386 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 429 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 429 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 472 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 472 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 515 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 515 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 371 column 33 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 374 column 37 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 381 column 99 - Warning: <table> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "ffffff" and has been replaced
line 381 column 613 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 388 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 388 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 388 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 388 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 389 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 399 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 406 column 278 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 406 column 706 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 406 column 802 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 406 column 915 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 414 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 414 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 414 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 414 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 415 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 425 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 432 column 278 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 437 column 1473 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 437 column 1569 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 437 column 1682 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 444 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 445 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 445 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 445 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 445 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 456 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 473 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 473 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 473 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 473 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 484 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 491 column 788 - Warning: <table> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "FFFFFF" and has been replaced
line 491 column 933 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 491 column 971 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 491 column 1035 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 491 column 1104 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 491 column 1142 - Warning: <td> attribute "valign" has invalid value "center"
line 491 column 1142 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 491 column 1383 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 491 column 1453 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 491 column 1518 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 491 column 1563 - Warning: <td> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "3333FF" and has been replaced
line 497 column 42 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 42 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 85 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 85 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 128 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 128 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 171 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 171 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 214 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 214 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 257 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 257 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 300 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 300 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 343 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 343 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 386 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 386 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 429 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 429 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 472 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 472 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 515 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 515 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 499 column 33 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 502 column 37 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 509 column 99 - Warning: <table> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "ffffff" and has been replaced
line 509 column 585 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 515 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 516 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 516 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 516 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 516 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 527 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 544 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 544 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 555 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 567 column 763 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 567 column 763 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 576 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 576 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 576 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 576 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 577 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 587 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 594 column 278 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 594 column 662 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 594 column 758 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 594 column 871 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 602 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 602 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 602 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 602 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 613 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 620 column 74 - Warning: <table> attribute "bgcolor" had invalid value "FFFFFF" and has been replaced
line 622 column 519 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 629 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 630 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 630 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 630 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 630 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 641 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 660 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 660 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 660 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 660 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 661 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 671 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 678 column 278 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 680 column 818 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 680 column 914 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 680 column 1027 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 689 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 689 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 689 column 216 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 698 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 703 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 683 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 179 column 788 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 179 column 873 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 186 column 1698 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 210 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 228 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 230 column 99 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 260 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 262 column 788 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 262 column 873 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 262 column 1632 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 278 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 280 column 99 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 303 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 305 column 788 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 305 column 873 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 309 column 1833 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 333 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 335 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 361 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 379 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 381 column 99 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 404 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 430 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 461 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 489 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 491 column 788 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 491 column 873 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 491 column 1638 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 507 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 509 column 99 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 532 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 560 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 592 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 618 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 620 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 646 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 676 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 493 warnings and 0 errors!

The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md