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Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
Level: 89


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Posted on 01-13-18 12:31:01 AM (last edited by Tarale at 01-13-18 12:46:58 AM) Link | Quote
I think some of those accusations stem from older generations not realising that the deck is systemically stacked against younger ones. So instead of seeing it a systemic issue, they see it as personal failing?

I dunno, that's what I seem to get from these people who are all "but I worked hard for what I've got!" They seem to take things personally, and then go "well you guys must be lazy!", and "You just want things handed to you!", and they don't see that it's a lot bigger than that.

I am positive my parents worked hard for us to have a roof over their heads, and I know it wasn't easy (especially on one income most of the time, as my father was very sick). But it was still easier than it is for our generation. And some of them just can't accept that.

EDIT: I also cleaned up most of the dry grass in the back yard, while my husband looked after the baby. I am very tired. The green bin is full. There shouldn't be any more fires during the upcoming hot weather.

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Tarale.net
Thaminga

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From: Weqspechitari, YIX, LT, Isarthaka

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Posted on 01-13-18 09:36:05 AM Link | Quote
Combine that with the fact that "hard work" like in the olden days just isn't as likely to get one ahead anymore in the first place thanks to automatization, and... yeah.

Can't expect everyone who can to work for a living when there just isn't enough work for everyone to even work full time, and employers won't start paying people more or hiring more people, because the current system is aimed at profit above all else, at any cost; while completely ignoring the bigger picture of it all.
Xkeeper

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Posted on 01-13-18 08:49:29 PM (last edited by Xkeeper at 01-13-18 08:52:26 PM) Link | Quote
There was a tweet a while ago about how "lazy" is a terrible and loaded term, and "demotivated" is a lot better in almost every case.


As for that, don't forget also that productivity has actually been increasing greatly, at least for the last several years. There is also a lot of fun in monitoring; 10-15 years ago nobody would care if you made a hamburger slightly slower than someone else, but now there's a bunch of monitoring and analytics and ~data driven bullshit~ forcing people to work as fast as they possibly can. And of course, most of these systems are automated, so there's no room for leniency. Doesn't matter if the last 20 items you had to scan and bag were awkwardly packaged or had the barcodes in difficult to scan parts; do it faster, peon.

Technology has largely made the job experience worse.


edit: a is not em

____________________
(Lv 239 with 213225596 EXP)
Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 01-13-18 10:32:50 PM Link | Quote
Yeah, that also reminds me of NPS, which I loathe. I never worked under an NPS system myself, but I see how it works and it's shit.

So, like, at the end of every interaction, the customer is supposed to rate it out of 10. If they don't rate you a 9 or a 10, you wind up in trouble.

But as a customer, when do you rate everything a 9 or a 10? Like, it has to be absolutely amazing for most people to rate that way. And the vast majority of routine interactions are not amazing.

So then you wind up with staff that are penalised for not being gobsmackingly awesome with every single mundane interaction. Like, someone calls for a password reset, the password is reset cheerfully and quickly, very politely, etc, but it's not AMAZING service, it's just what a customer expects, there's no way to go above and beyond here. So you don't rate the CSO a 9 or a 10…

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Tarale.net
Arisotura
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Posted on 01-13-18 11:05:46 PM Link | Quote
Reminds me of that general trend I hate, of constantly begging for ratings and opinions and shit.


An example that came after I had a litigation over Paypal:

<Paypal> hey would you mind giving us your opinion about our litigation handling system?
<me> yeah sure
<Paypal> okay how would you rate the system? [0-10]
<me> uuuh, let's say 9 (well, it did the job, not much else to say)
<Paypal> OMG WHY DID YOU NOT GIVE US A 10 WHAT MUST WE DO TO GET A 10 WAAAAAHH
<me> okay go fuck yourself


Or those Android apps that constantly ask for a review. Next one that annoys me will get a review like 1/5 APP IS ACTUALLY GOOD BUT LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE.


What a stupid world this is becoming. Like, we can't just live life as it comes anymore, we have to be constantly gathering and analyzing data, collecting and considering reviews, etc...



also re: modernization

Isn't it going to be amazing to be left with fully automated services and unable to contact any human? Some real-life services are starting to become like that.

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Kuribo64 -- NSMB2 hacking and other crap
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Posted on 01-13-18 11:08:10 PM Link | Quote
That has been a growing trend ever since IVRs became popular.

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(Lv 239 with 213270393 EXP)
Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 01-13-18 11:21:17 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
That has been a growing trend ever since IVRs became popular.

Statistics, yes, but NPS pushes it to the next level of shittiness. Oh, in addition to the standard stats about average call handling time, wait time, abandon rate, after call handling time, etc…

Ahhhh I do hope I don't have to work in a call centre again, but I strongly suspect I will.

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Tarale.net
Joe
Common spammer
🍬
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Posted on 01-14-18 09:17:14 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Tarale
NPS

I work at a datacenter for a company whose name you almost certainly know. I'm not on the phones, but my job does involve some customer support, so I have to hear about NPS pretty often. (Including the part where if the customer rates you 8/10 your score goes down.)

According to one of the companies in charge of NPS, the top scorer of 2017 was Costco, with 79. Keep in mind: this is the top score, not an average.


Our goal is 80.


We are not close to our goal.

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ふにゃあ。
Xkeeper

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Posted on 01-15-18 12:50:08 AM Link | Quote
good news: i finally fixed the phantom page problem for this and a handful of other pages. no longer will you click the last thread when the number of posts is on a page boundary and see nothing!


there are also about 20 or so threads that no longer exist, so i guess i should probably move all of their posts into a "lost posts" thread or something (or just delete them idk)

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(Lv 239 with 213609137 EXP)
Xkeeper

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Posted on 01-15-18 12:54:32 AM Link | Quote
On second thought, most of those threads are terrible/spam, so it might be wise to selectively delete the bad ones and make new 'lost threads' for the ones that went missing.

On a related note, I now remember why "Lost Threads" was a forum. By the time we all discovered it back in the early 00s it was pretty much already overrun with goofy threads

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Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 01-17-18 05:29:50 AM Link | Quote
Hey, speaking of old/deleted content, is there a way to strip out layouts that rely on now-defunct Photobucket stuff? Some things are difficult to read, and new users increase the likelihood of accidental thread necromancy…


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Tarale.net
Xkeeper

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Posted on 01-17-18 08:08:21 AM Link | Quote
There's supposed to be a filter for Photobucket images, but it might not be working all the time (it tries to replace them with a simple gray image). I'm not really sure what else I can do other than try to fix it if it isn't working...

____________________
(Lv 240 with 214319984 EXP)
Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 01-17-18 08:14:56 AM Link | Quote
Ah, I wasn't sure if you could disable the layouts on those posts, but it's probably not easy to do without causing unintended damage.

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Tarale.net
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Posted on 01-17-18 08:23:43 AM Link | Quote
I can fairly easily wipe out any instance of Photobucket (worst case, I just rewrite the text to point to some non-existent domain), but that obviously corrupts everything permanently.

Honestly, I just wish there was a way to archive the shit people posted locally, then I wouldn't have to feel bad about it. Why are image hosts always so awful?

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(Lv 240 with 214334352 EXP)
Xkeeper

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Posted on 01-17-18 08:29:09 AM Link | Quote
Quoting from IRC because it's almost 2:30 in the morning and I need to sleep:

022510 ~Xkeeper> i am glad that we are seeing more activity
022525 ~Xkeeper> i hope that we can create a slightly better community that is good, without relying on the mire of social media bullshit
022532 ~Xkeeper> and claw back some of our internet presences
022541 ~Xkeeper> it's... really nice to not feel rushed
022550 ~Xkeeper> i can reply to a post later without worrying i'll lose it under a billion tweets
022557 ~Xkeeper> i missed this


____________________
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Tarale
Catgirl
C:\ DOS
C:\ DOS RUN
RUN DOS RUN
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Posted on 01-17-18 08:31:00 PM Link | Quote
Gave the forum a shout-out on tarale.net… not sure if it'll lead to any newbies but we'll see.

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Tarale.net
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Posted on 01-18-18 02:35:42 AM Link | Quote
The best way to attract people is generally to tell them about this place repeatedly and not shut up about how much less awful it is than the current place. But given that I mostly try advertising it on Twitter to decent folks, reach is limited.

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lizardsquid

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Posted on 01-19-18 10:52:16 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper

...
022541 ~Xkeeper> it's... really nice to not feel rushed
022550 ~Xkeeper> i can reply to a post later without worrying i'll lose it under a billion tweets
022557 ~Xkeeper> i missed this


Yeah, I've been gone a few days because I've been busy and I don't feel stressed about it? It's nice

____________________
♥
I'm nonbinary (they or she pronouns)
♥
Xkeeper

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Posted on 01-19-18 10:52:48 PM Link | Quote
plus you can rest easy knowing you've missed nothing, or at the very least are acutely aware of what you've missed, as opposed to welp-it's-in-the-void social media crap.

____________________
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FieryIce

Luigi
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Posted on 01-21-18 11:21:15 PM Link | Quote
That is one big thing I like about forums. Being able to contribute to conversations at a slower pace. Not feeling like I have to be responding to people right away. Reddit is so fast and threads die so quickly that sometimes I only find out about a neat thread a day later and it's too late to really join in.
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Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

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line 760 column 677 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 760 column 711 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 760 column 745 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 760 column 779 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 760 column 813 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 760 column 847 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 760 column 881 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 760 column 915 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 760 column 949 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 760 column 983 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 760 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 760 column 1022 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 762 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 762 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 763 column 37 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&id"
line 762 column 167 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 764 column 17 - Warning: discarding unexpected </textarea>
line 764 column 28 - Warning: discarding unexpected </form>
line 764 column 35 - Warning: discarding unexpected </embed>
line 764 column 43 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noembed>
line 764 column 53 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noscript>
line 764 column 64 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noembed>
line 764 column 74 - Warning: discarding unexpected </embed>
line 764 column 82 - Warning: discarding unexpected </table>
line 764 column 90 - Warning: discarding unexpected </table>
line 766 column 9 - Warning: missing </font> before <table>
line 778 column 25 - Warning: discarding unexpected </font>
line 787 column 57 - Warning: discarding unexpected </font>
line 765 column 1 - Warning: missing </center>
line 120 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 125 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 125 column 93 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 141 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 141 column 98 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 148 column 43 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 140 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 241 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 161 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 162 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 172 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 193 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 193 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 193 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 193 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 194 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 204 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 221 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 221 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 221 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 221 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 222 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 232 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 255 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 255 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 255 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 255 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 256 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 266 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 287 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 287 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 287 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 287 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 288 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 298 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 335 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 335 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 335 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 335 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 336 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 346 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 353 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 361 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 361 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 361 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 361 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 362 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 372 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 390 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 390 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 390 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 390 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 391 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 401 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 425 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 425 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 425 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 425 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 426 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 436 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 443 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 454 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 454 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 454 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 454 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 455 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 465 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 472 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 474 column 1339 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 474 column 1339 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 482 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 482 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 482 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 482 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 483 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 493 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 509 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 509 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 509 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 509 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 510 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 520 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 527 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 535 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 535 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 535 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 535 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 536 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 546 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 561 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 561 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 561 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 561 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 562 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 572 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 579 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 589 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 589 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 589 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 589 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 590 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 600 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 607 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 623 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 623 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 623 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 623 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 624 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 634 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 641 column 864 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 641 column 864 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 649 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 649 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 649 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 649 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 650 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 660 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 667 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 674 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 675 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 675 column 62 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 675 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 675 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 676 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 686 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 710 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 710 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 710 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 710 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 711 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 721 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 728 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 728 column 1153 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 728 column 1153 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 735 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 736 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 736 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 736 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 736 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 737 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 747 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 763 column 43 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 763 column 140 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 763 column 241 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 772 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 777 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 757 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 209 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 237 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 271 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 303 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 351 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 377 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 406 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 441 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 470 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 498 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 525 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 551 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 577 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 605 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 639 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 665 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 691 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 726 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 752 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 361 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md