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Jul - Display Case - Super Smash Bros Brawl New poll - New thread - Thread closed
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Posted on 12-04-08 05:15:16 PM Link
You know, I never considered hit stun and combos. Holy crap, and all this time I have been defending Brawl as the better game, but it's totally true, you don't see combos anymore at all.

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Posted on 12-04-08 05:26:00 PM Link
Originally posted by Shadic
I think it makes it more fun than the stereotype that it's a button smasher with kiddy characters.

I'm just an above-average player that would like the game to have some of the depth that Melee had, and I didn't even bother with wavedashing in that. It's the simplification of things (Like tether recoveries) that irritate me.

It doesn't have to not be stereotype X or stereotype Y to be fun. I mean, shit, I find adding more complicated crap to the game turns it into Generic Street Fighter Clone #37.

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Posted on 12-04-08 06:20:14 PM Link
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Posted on 12-04-08 08:49:32 PM Link
Originally posted by Shadic
Originally posted by Minaya
It doesn't have to not be stereotype X or stereotype Y to be fun. I mean, shit, I find adding more complicated crap to the game turns it into Generic Street Fighter Clone #37.

That's why people are also considered Auto L-Canceling. Basically, it cuts the lag down from attacks when you hit the ground.

You are further proving his point.

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Posted on 12-04-08 09:43:44 PM Link
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Posted on 12-04-08 10:27:53 PM Link
Well, when their is lag between attacks, you have to decide if right then is the right time to do that attack.

I don't have many more thoughts on that...

Also, no body likes items on. It's not ALL about winning.
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Posted on 12-05-08 12:00:36 AM Link
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Posted on 12-05-08 01:49:57 AM Link
And how would you do that?

The theory is that you would add situationally advantageous options rather than another layer of button press complexity.

Giving the player the ability to play truly offensive without being easily punished makes the game more technical. I'm saying one specific move made the game more technical, and you're rebutting with "Well, you could make it more complicated and it would be more technical!" Yes, but with some moderation. There's a huge difference between pressing a button at a certain time to make things happen faster, as compared to making the player hit several buttons in order to jump.

There's no fundamental difference between making jumping complicated and making landing lag cuts more complicated. Neither add any skill in a PvP situation and just serve to make the game harder to actually play and serve as a pointless technical barrier.

No, Melee is better because it gives a suitable amount of options to avoid combos. Hitstun is indeed a lot lower, but they reduced it so far in Brawl, combos are very rare. And don't discount teching and airdodging. Also, L Canceling was in Smash 64, but it was instant. That was the problem.

Notice that each game has ramped up the defensive options. Brawl was based around the fact that you have strong defensive abilities. By cutting defensive abilities you basically open yourself to creating a clusterfuck.

So increase hitstun in general, while fixing things such as Falco's laser lock?

Considering how many problems there are with walls and the like from hitstun as it is, that would be a many-years task.

And those two characters are? (It's not clear if you mean literally "They're gone," or what.)

I played Dr. Mario and Mewtwo. Figure it out

...Less laggy attacks means that a game is a Street Fighter Clone?

No, that the fanbase had a choice of no extra button press or an extra button press and they decided on the extra button press.


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Posted on 12-05-08 06:17:59 PM Link
Guys, guys. Smash Bros was designed to be simple.

Consider.
Power attack to the left? Smash-CLeft.
Attack upwards? Up+Attack.
Down special? Down+Special.

Notice something here?

It's supposed to be simplistic and easy to play.

Challenge is formed by being skilled and knowing when to use what attack.


At this rate, why don't we seriously just make all the attacks use like Up-Up-Down-DownRight-Right-Attack to use a special move? Seriously? MORE COMPLEXITY = MORE BUTTONS.

The whole emphasis is on item use and knowing when to go in or get away. Adding stupid little gimmicks like you guys are suggesting basically breaks that whole idea and turns it into another fucking generic fighter where you have to PUSH X AT THE EXACT FRAME OF THIS ANIMATION OR ELSE YOU LOSE.



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Posted on 12-05-08 06:58:55 PM Link
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Posted on 12-05-08 08:15:01 PM Link

I personally think anyone who puts arcane technical tricks as the basis for fun in a game that is designed to be simple is completely missing the point of the game. The people who worship and practice those sorts of techniques are probably the kinds of people who play games just for the sake of winning. And those people are no fun to play with.

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Posted on 12-05-08 09:22:42 PM Link
Originally posted by Peardian
Those people are no fun to play with.


Agreed.

Originally posted by Peardian
The people who worship and practice those sorts of techniques are probably the kinds of people who play games just for the sake of winning.


Those are also the people that hate items.
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Posted on 12-05-08 09:29:33 PM Link
Personally, I don't want to know how all these advanced tricks work. To me, that sends you one step closer to becoming that guy that plays no items and only plays to win. I can't do that, I refuse.

Smash Bros is not meant to be a serious fighter. Honestly, how can it be a serious fighter when you've got crazy stage hazards particle effects out the ass, goofy sound effects and the simple controls. Knowing that it's not meant to be a serious fighter, you shouldn't blame the developers for not including these technical tricks. They never intended Brawl to be more technically difficult. In fact, looking at how accessible the rest of the game is, I'd say they were going for less technical stuff altogether. So if you happen to be a the minority of players that like these technical things, sorry, Brawl isn't the one to play in that case. :\

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Posted on 12-05-08 09:53:41 PM Link
*Teconmoon looks at the Wii Remote he plays Brawl with.

Yea... You know it's meant to be simple when they successfully smash down Gamecube controls to a plain old Wiimote.

Well, I thought the Wiimote configuration was successful...
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Posted on 12-05-08 10:39:07 PM Link
Originally posted by Shadic
Originally posted by Shadic
That's why people are also considering Auto L-Canceling. Basically, it cuts the lag down from attacks when you hit the ground.

Funny how both you and Xenesis miss this point completely.


Try it. Go to the smash community and tell them that you think that auto-L cancelling would be better than L-Cancelling. You'll be labelled a scrub that has no skill in ten posts. And then likely flamed so hard that your corpse will be incinerated before it hits the ground.
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Posted on 12-05-08 11:02:29 PM (last edited by Reimu at 12-05-08 08:02 PM) Link
Every of us has a littlehuge ⑨ inside.
----------------------------
Personally, I think the point of this game is to punch the face of a character you dislike with a character you like.

I mean, when I see a match, I don't think "omg look how he uses randomtechniquewhatever mixes it with techniqueskillglitchsomething", I think "that cpu-controlled pikachu just detonated a bomb on its own face for no reason and used quick attack to throw itself out of the stage"

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Posted on 12-05-08 11:10:18 PM (last edited by Shadic at 12-05-08 08:13 PM) Link
Xenesis

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Posted on 12-05-08 11:33:38 PM Link
Hrm, well I suppose it's true that no one relevant actually cares about it. (Also, most of the second thread was whining that taking out the button press would be "taking the skill out of Brawl+"

(And I have almost 6, so nyah)
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Posted on 12-06-08 12:21:29 AM (last edited by Shadic at 12-05-08 09:21 PM) Link
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Posted on 12-06-08 12:42:03 AM (last edited by Sonicandtails at 12-05-08 09:55 PM) Link
There are such things as competitive gamers, and no one says you have to play with them. I myself, really like playing competitive and learning advanced techs and tricks. And it stems from SSB64 really, Shadic and I have had some amazing matches in 64 full of techs that allow you to beat the average player with Link alone (According to Tier List, the worst character in the game). There is the fun style of gameplay where you can use items and play whatever way you want, that's fun, and I do it with friends. There is the play to win style, and if you don't like it, then what is the problem? People enjoying things a different way? What a concept. I for one, enjoy attempting to shove the circle block through the triangle hole.

Edit: Alright I don't care what anyone says. This is cool. The hitstun is 12%, which is what seems to be Melee quality, and Auto L Canceling is on. Notice how they are actually able to string combos together? That's pretty sweet. Also, even though Brawl may not be as competitive as everyone is saying, but aren't fighting games and other PVP games supposed to be competitive to begin with?
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