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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Do we do unreleased games, that were never meant to be released? New poll - New thread - New reply
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Hiccup
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Posted on 10-13-13 02:42:25 PM (last edited by Hiccup at 10-13-13 02:44:59 PM) Link | Quote
I would like to do an article on "Yoshi GBA" (a tech demo based on Yoshi's Story).

It is at least related to a released game (Yoshi's Story for the N64).

It has two versions.

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xdaniel
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Posted on 10-13-13 02:48:12 PM Link | Quote


>>ESTABLISHING LINK...DONE.    >>FETCHING POST DATA...DONE.    >>EXECUTING POSTDISP.BIN...


Well, we do have an article on at least the SNES Test Program and the Burn-In Test Cart. I'd say they're somewhat similar regarding their "semi-unreleased-ness", so at least I don't see any reason against having the Yoshi demo...


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Posted on 10-13-13 07:38:44 PM (last edited by Peardian at 10-13-13 07:39:05 PM) Link | Quote
If you're covering the unused/hidden stuff, sure, yeah, I think it's fair game. Just don't go and catalog absolutely every sprite and tile that you normally see in the demo.

(Unless there's a good reason, that is.)

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Posted on 10-13-13 07:40:58 PM (last edited by Celice at 10-13-13 07:41:50 PM) Link | Quote
I say yes, if we allow them as an Oddity (if we have to argue their inclusion on technicality).

I think they ought to be discussed regardless, however. It gets tricky as there's really nothing to compare these demoes or unreleased games with, sometimes. I mean, we have 40 Winks, a game that didn't come out on N64, but which was developed for--this can be compared against its PS1 release, which did see the light of commercial day.

We do cover early builds of games, too, many of which are Western developed (stuff like the Stalker games, unreal series, Serious Sam, etc.). Sometimes these builds are of development periods where they were an entirely different game.

Speaking of the above, apparently the Serious Sam developers have given an early build of their game to some modders, who are set on restoring much of the content that never made the final build--in the footage you can already see several assets which are detailed on the Serious Sam pages as being unused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx6XE7VCYQU&feature=youtu.be

I find this interesting, as it has the same development history as the likes of Resident Evil 1.5, Stalker - Shadow of Chernobyl, and several other games.

I think how we deal with early prototypes or development periods is somewhat informing on how to deal with unreleased games and demos in general.
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Posted on 10-13-13 10:19:11 PM Link | Quote
Has this Yoshi demo been dumped? I also find this link relevant: http://themushroomkingdom.net/techdemos.shtml

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Posted on 10-14-13 01:44:22 AM (last edited by Rick at 10-14-13 01:44:36 AM) Link | Quote
Might I settle some doubts with a friendly link right here?

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Posted on 10-14-13 02:24:48 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Rick
Might I settle some doubts with a friendly link right here?
Just to add onto this, here is the original thread I started on JUL about whether or not it was ok to create that very page on TCRF.

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Posted on 10-14-13 02:26:16 AM (last edited by einstein95 at 10-14-13 02:46:05 AM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by nensondubois
Has this Yoshi demo been dumped? I also find this link relevant: http://themushroomkingdom.net/techdemos.shtml


One version comes pre-compiled in the SDK, and it's in the GoodGBA set.

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Posted on 10-14-13 05:26:11 PM (last edited by Hiccup at 10-14-13 05:26:29 PM) Link | Quote
It is related to Yoshi's Story and features enemies unique to the demo.

I'm not sure how go about this, should I write about the whole thing or just version differences, debug features ?


Also I can only find the 3.0 version of the GBA SDK, so I can't find any more versions of the demo.

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Posted on 10-14-13 06:40:26 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Hiccup
It is related to Yoshi's Story and features enemies unique to the demo.

I'm not sure how go about this, should I write about the whole thing or just version differences, debug features ?


Also I can only find the 3.0 version of the GBA SDK, so I can't find any more versions of the demo.


Just the debug features (I wasn't aware there were any) and version differences. See the Nintendo DS NTR Debug Cartridge's history for what not to add.

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Posted on 10-15-13 05:55:09 AM Link | Quote
I can at least link to a video I made, of the whole thing?

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Posted on 10-15-13 06:25:57 PM Link | Quote
...don't we have all the source files for Yoshi GBA?
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Posted on 10-15-13 06:59:56 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by andlabs
...don't we have all the source files for Yoshi GBA?

yep

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Posted on 10-16-13 01:42:38 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Hiccup
I can at least link to a video I made, of the whole thing?

Does it show off anything hidden/unused?

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Posted on 10-16-13 05:49:41 AM Link | Quote
It shows the debug features and.....an unreleased tech demo.

I have the source (which I will look through for unused code ect) for the two versions I know exist.

And the other version of the GBA Dev-kit software must have other versions of the demo, if I could only find them.

Also, can this be hosted here?

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Posted on 10-20-13 05:59:43 PM Link | Quote
I'd like to point out that, even though this game is meant to be a sort of replica of Yoshi's Story, you shouldn't be using Yoshi's Story as a basis for what is considered unused or not. The Bob-ombs, Bullet Bills, and 5-ton weights are all very clearly used in what I assume is a normal play-through of the demo.

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Posted on 10-20-13 06:01:58 PM Link | Quote
What should I use a basis?

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Posted on 10-30-13 03:29:37 PM Link | Quote


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I'd just go with what Xkeeper said last thread:
Originally posted by Xkeeper
The whole game is unused. Document everything.

As long as it's notable, feel free to write about what exactly the tech demo presents. Don't restrict yourself to unused stuff within the tech demo.

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Posted on 10-30-13 06:25:07 PM (last edited by Hiccup at 10-30-13 06:26:05 PM) Link | Quote
I think the video will do for the most part, but I am pointing out some of the sprites.

This is the article: http://tcrf.net/User:Hiccup/Yoshi_Sample

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Posted on 11-09-13 05:17:20 AM Link | Quote
I'd say you should document a normal playthrough of the demo, then document what isn't used in a normal demo playthrough.
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line 327 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 328 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 338 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 342 column 92 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" had invalid value "e2d315" and has been replaced
line 345 column 197 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 345 column 197 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 345 column 280 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 348 column 411 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 355 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 356 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 356 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 356 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 356 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 357 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 367 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 374 column 270 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 374 column 270 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 382 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 382 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 382 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 382 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 393 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 397 column 92 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" had invalid value "97ACEF" and has been replaced
line 410 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 410 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 410 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 410 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 421 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 425 column 91 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" had invalid value "7C60B0" and has been replaced
line 442 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 442 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 442 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 442 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 453 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 475 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 475 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 475 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 475 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 486 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 502 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 502 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 502 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 502 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 503 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 513 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 528 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 528 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 528 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 528 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 539 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 554 column 17 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 555 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 555 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 555 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 555 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 556 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 566 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 573 column 437 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 577 column 1151 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 587 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 587 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 587 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 587 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 598 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 619 column 17 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 620 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 620 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 620 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 620 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 621 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 631 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 638 column 437 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 641 column 1288 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 651 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 651 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 651 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 651 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 662 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 677 column 16 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 677 column 16 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 677 column 59 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 677 column 59 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 677 column 102 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 677 column 102 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 677 column 145 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 677 column 145 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 678 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 678 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 678 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 678 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 679 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 689 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 729 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 729 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 729 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 729 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 740 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 744 column 91 - Warning: <font> attribute "color" had invalid value "7C60B0" and has been replaced
line 758 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 758 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 758 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 758 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 769 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 785 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 785 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 785 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 794 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 799 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 149 column 50 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 247 column 363 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 573 column 363 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 638 column 363 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 779 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 782 column 50 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 208 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 245 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 251 column 893 - Warning: <td> proprietary attribute "background"
line 278 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 316 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 343 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 372 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 398 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 426 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 458 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 491 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 518 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 544 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 571 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 576 column 814 - Warning: <td> proprietary attribute "background"
line 603 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 636 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 640 column 951 - Warning: <td> proprietary attribute "background"
line 667 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 694 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 745 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 774 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 359 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md