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Jul - General Chat - Justice or Mercy? New poll - New thread - New reply
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Just wondering, what would you be looking for on criminals?
Justice
 
 42.9%, 9 votes
Mercy
 
 57.1%, 12 votes
Multi-voting is disabled. 21 users have voted.

Hiryuu

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Posted on 04-26-08 06:46:00 AM (last edited by Shion at 04-26-08 03:52 AM) Link | Quote
I'd put circumstantial as an option as well, but I'd like to get a more hardened answer on something like this...just something I read earlier that kinda bugs me a bit.

If someone did any given crime, and we'll stay out of the extremist sense and just say on the whole and in general in a VERY big generalization...would you be a kind of person that would rather drop the banhammer of justice on someone and be over and done with them because they did wrong even if they hadn't or would you be willing to at least hear the story out and maybe show compassion even though they may still be wrong and may be bluffing?

BY THE BY, I don't mean what you see on TV...I'm talking about what happens to you in general as a person...the minor things and the major things. What happens to you PERSONALLY...not what OJ Simpson does on the weekends. I just wonder if it's based on patience or just people in general...so I'm just taking a little poll to see how this pans out.

By the by, I'd be more on the Mercy side.

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Posted on 04-26-08 12:42:52 PM Link | Quote
The mercy side.

I just believe that sometimes circumstances can depend on the point of view, and even if they may be still wrong after hearing them out, at least I feel that it was sorted out correctly.

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Posted on 04-26-08 06:32:58 PM Link | Quote
Mercy.

It's not fair to punish someone who did something without taking into account the reasons why he/she did it, the consequences that would happen if it was not done, and the circumstances of the situation.

For example, you need to find out who is truly at fault for the accident before deciding the result of the lawsuit.

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Shadic
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Posted on 04-26-08 08:08:25 PM Link | Quote
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Posted on 04-26-08 10:37:56 PM Link | Quote
Each one has its time and place. Choosing one always will get you nowhere.

I vote neither.

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Posted on 04-26-08 11:15:39 PM Link | Quote
I vote both. (not an option, but it's the way I see it works) Obviously none of you have read "The Merchant of Venice." The biggest monologue in the play is all about how "mercy seasons justice." Mercy should follow along with a just ruling.

I'd say the closest people to get near this idea would be Xkeeper and Shadic. Obviously mercy can be strained. (though in MoV they claim it cannot be) So when the time comes when mercy can no longer be given for repeated acts of injustice, justice should be brought entirely upon the person. (AKA ban-hammer, life in prison... you get the idea.)

Justice and mercy really can't be separated. They seem to me to be part of one entity. If a quality of this entity is strained, either mercy or justice, then the opposite of the strained quality can come out as a single entity .


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Posted on 04-26-08 11:43:19 PM Link | Quote
Discipline has a very specific purpose: to encourage correct behavior. Parents who never discipline their kids--but instead always let them off the hook--end up with bratty kids who turn into 1990's politicians.

From that perspective, I'm gonna say justice. The exact punishment will vary from case to case, but letting people get away with things won't do anything for them.
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Posted on 04-27-08 01:25:18 AM Link | Quote
Mercy. Sucks to be raised catholic, I know.
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Posted on 04-27-08 01:26:59 AM Link | Quote
For everything that one person did, like crimes and little things that parents told them not to do, there are different kinds of punishments. I think that mercy would be good for some little problems, and justice is for something really bad (that the law is involved) a person did. Mercy can carry a little bit of Justice and Justice can carry a little bit of Mercy. It all depends on the problem.

For what I would do is show them Justice, as long as they get the message that they did something wrong.

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Kagome
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Posted on 04-27-08 01:30:16 AM Link | Quote
Yeah and then you need to define what is wrong, and this would just get retarded. :/
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Posted on 04-27-08 06:06:18 PM Link | Quote

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Metal_Man88
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Justice.

The problem with the description is 'dropping the banhammer' is only just in measures where the person has shown that they disregard the rules and all your warnings first. Most of the time it's as simple as smacking them upside the head by saying "Quit that annoying garbage!"

So, yeah. Mercy just means in my book you let them walk all over you and do nothing about it; the greatest mercy to be had is usually involved when you incorrectly attack somebody and realize it's wrong, and if you apply justice properly, that just won't happen very often.

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Posted on 04-27-08 08:12:46 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by GuyPerfect
Discipline has a very specific purpose: to encourage correct behavior. Parents who never discipline their kids--but instead always let them off the hook--end up with bratty kids who turn into 1990's politicians.

From that perspective, I'm gonna say justice. The exact punishment will vary from case to case, but letting people get away with things won't do anything for them.


Pretty much how I feel as well.

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Posted on 04-28-08 03:26:13 PM Link | Quote
Justice

There are no second or more chances once they break the rules or the law.

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Posted on 04-28-08 08:57:27 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kagome
Yeah and then you need to define what is wrong, and this would just get retarded. :/

The only way to determine what's right and wrong is to bring God into the conversation.
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Posted on 04-28-08 09:13:49 PM Link | Quote

Justice- but it has to be actual justice, and not an overblown reaction... I suppose that's sometimes called "justice tempered by mercy", but if a punishment is unjust, I don't think that's justice at all...

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Posted on 04-29-08 12:43:05 AM (last edited by Metal_Man88 at 05-02-08 01:36 AM) Link | Quote

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Edit : Wish I had left it at this post rather than the mess below. Things did get retarded as Kagome predicted.

Originally posted by GuyPerfect
Originally posted by Kagome
Yeah and then you need to define what is wrong, and this would just get retarded. :/

The only way to determine what's right and wrong is to bring God into the conversation.


We could always say who's left instead. :p

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Hiryuu

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Posted on 04-29-08 03:26:03 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by GuyPerfect
The only way to determine what's right and wrong is to bring God into the conversation.


Not really...there are as many systems of right and wrong as there are people...not religions.


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Posted on 04-29-08 03:38:22 PM Link | Quote
That's the thing, though. To avoid it being a matter of opinion, there needs to be some authority in the picture.
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Posted on 05-01-08 05:56:11 PM (last edited by Metal_Man88 at 05-02-08 01:35 AM) Link | Quote

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Edit : Contents of post mostly false and/or dumb. Left intact because deleting it would just be dumber.


Originally posted by GuyPerfect
That's the thing, though. To avoid it being a matter of opinion, there needs to be some authority in the picture.



Not so, logic can be logically and mathematically proven, and things such as physics work off of it too.

Therefore it can be argued that logic is absolute in its authority, for it generated the world we're in. Thus if we tap into that we can determine if something is right or wrong based on what logic would dictate should have happened instead of what did, what logically caused it to go wrong, who (if anyone) logically is responsible, etc, etc.

Using a proof then you can determine who's right, who's wrong, and what to do entirely based on the most logical answer.

Unless you add logic as an authority, in which case you're correct--but it's not an authority which has an opinion or is a person so much as an immutable constant.


L: The judgement is given by logic
J: A judgment is given
A: An authority which includes God and high-standing people, but excludes logic
O: The judgment is an opinion
F: It is factual.
You: Any judgment given is a matter of opinion unless given by an authority which is a person, God, or similar.. ∀J[(J ^ O)v(J ^ A)].
Me: There exists a judgment given by someone which is not listed as an authority by you (logic) which is not an opinion. ∃J( L ^ J ^ ¬A ^ ¬O)
Why is the judgment not an opinion if given by logic? Well...
An opinion is agreed to be something that is not factual. But... logic is the very way we determine facts.

So if logic is not usable as an authority, then there are no facts. Hence proving that argument wrong by absurdity.
Therefore my exception to your case disproves your entire chain of thought, as I can use this same manner of thinking to prove what I wish logically, and it can be verified.

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Posted on 05-02-08 12:19:49 AM Link | Quote
That was a very long-winded way of failing to define right and wrong. You've stated the process of forming a judgement, but right and wrong are criteria in that process and need to be defined before any judgement can be made.

What I'm saying is that right and wrong themselves are a matter of opinion without some kind of universal definition such as God laying the foundation. Consider the following scenario:

Person A: "He stole from me! Kill him!"
Person B: "Oh, come on. You don't need to kill him."
Person A: "But stealing is wrong."
Person B: "Not necessarily. And what he stole wasn't of great value, so it doesn't make much of a difference."
Person A: "You're not the one who got something stolen. Your perspective is insufficient."
Person B: "You're just angry because of what happened. Your reaction is exaggerated."

Kill him for doing wrong? Let him off the hook because he didn't do wrong? Try to place the theft somewhere along a wide spectrum of wrongness?

In order to conceive the proper judgement of the situation, it's gonna need to be known how to properly react, which varies from person to person unless an authority defines what's right and what's wrong.
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Jul - General Chat - Justice or Mercy? New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic

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