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Jul - Meta - a CSS field for editprofile.php New poll - New thread - New reply
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sofi

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Posted on 02-21-22 02:13:20 PM Link | Quote
many of us use CSS these days in our layouts, and we understandably put them in our headers. however, there is an issue that comes with doing so: Jul tends to automatically insert line breaks whenever a part of the post has a line break. to deal with this, many of us have to remove all our line breaks when we put them into our headers. this can have some readability issues. i'm sure i'm not the only person who's been slowed down by having to wade through the large block of code.

obviously, the answer isn't to get rid of the automatic line break feature—it's incredibly useful for writing posts. but what if we were allowed to write our own style sheet directly in a `stylesheet' field in editprofile.php, one which doesn't automatically insert <br> tags? this could automatically be included in every post before the header, putting a <style> tag in the beginning if the field is in use.

below is a mock-up of my proposal.


(click for full image)

what do you think?

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sofi
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Posted on 02-21-22 02:16:48 PM Link | Quote
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i had something like this on one of my old boards. it worked pretty well, but it wasn't a total substitute for having a header and a footer, which would need to be kept for legacy purposes (and to keep layouts extensible)

the question is, would the <style> tags be placed at the header of each post, or the header of the page? probably the former

i think this is a good idea

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sofi

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Posted on 02-21-22 02:20:12 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kaj
i had something like this on one of my old boards. it worked pretty well, but it wasn't a total substitute for having a header and a footer, which would need to be kept for legacy purposes (and to keep layouts extensible)

the question is, would the <style> tags be placed at the header of each post, or the header of the page? probably the former

i think this is a good idea

i do think headers and footers should be preserved, largely because they serve table/div-making purposes, as i've shown in my mock up

as for where they would go, i guess they could go in the header of the post, since many layouts are unique or change subtly per post

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sofi
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Posted on 02-21-22 02:22:48 PM Link | Quote
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oh, right, i guess that's pretty obvious

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Sanqui
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Posted on 02-21-22 03:12:08 PM Link | Quote
honestly, we should totally do this, and if nobody gets to it I might just re-establish my testing Jul development board and do it myself

having to modify the SQL schema makes this a real pain to put into production, but, I'm sure we could see about that...

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Kaj

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Posted on 02-21-22 03:15:07 PM Link | Quote
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Originally posted by Sanqui
if nobody gets to it I might just re-establish my testing Jul development board and do it myself

i've had ideas for things i'd like to contribute to the board here and there, but the lack of an SQL dump makes it difficult to work on locally

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ひりゅう
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Posted on 02-21-22 03:21:06 PM Link | Quote




Nothing I haven't actually seen before on the older XD profile maker versions of the ACMLMboards...and it's actually the basis of what I'm running for my CSS code now. Problem is I'm quite sure I heard 'no layout makers' being said at some point and that it was discouraged for some reason.

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Nanashi
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Posted on 02-21-22 03:26:40 PM Link | Quote
i vaguely recall there being long ago a "post background" field at some point, which obviously didn't work

i also remember the "no layout makers" talk but that was iirc in reference to a particular old jank one that was circulating around

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av source|layout in progress, please excuse anything that breaks
Kaj

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Posted on 02-21-22 03:30:42 PM Link | Quote
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layout makers became discouraged because it meant any kid could make the ugliest layout imaginable.

with requiring (the most basic of) CSS knowledge, there's at least a barrier of entry that might spare of us from really awful, awful layouts

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rokken
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Posted on 02-21-22 05:15:05 PM Link | Quote
Might, because I'm here and getting into the layout game.

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Joe
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Posted on 02-21-22 05:34:37 PM Link | Quote
Huh, I thought that one particular layout maker was discouraged because it created surprisingly large amounts of code for otherwise simple layouts.

Speaking of which.

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Kak

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Posted on 02-21-22 06:22:47 PM Link | Quote
Post #1914
Originally posted by Kaj
i had something like this on one of my old boards
hi :V

Yeah, this is one of the features I've added to the fork years ago, as its separate 'css' field that doesn't receive the newline-> br conversion and gets automatically wrapped by a style tag.

Such a field of course needs to be handled in the exact same way as the header and footer fields when it comes to the peculiar way the 'postlayouts' table is handled (to save space).

The only part I've considered slightly dubious though is the edit post window, since it also needs the separate textarea to edit the CSS. Having four of them looks a bit cluttered, especially when I originally wrote that feature, on a laptop with a low screen resolution




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Kaj

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Posted on 02-21-22 06:33:38 PM Link | Quote
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the editpost.php could look like this, roughly:

Edit post text
Post text *text editor goes here*
Edit post layout
CSS *css editor goes here*
Post header *post header editor goes here*
Post footer *post footer editor goes here*

it's still a bit messy, but at least sorta separates it. could have the "Edit layout" section be expandable and minimized by default

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Kak

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Posted on 02-21-22 06:44:46 PM Link | Quote
Post #1916
that's a nice idea I don't think I thought about, somehow.

the NoScript part of me would make the toggle that shows/hides the post layout editor as something that submits the page.

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Kaj

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Posted on 02-21-22 06:49:54 PM Link | Quote
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eh it could be like how this works


it's lovely when CSS can do things that you'd expect from JavaScript

and i love your fork, kak. it was fun to play with, and i'm sure you had fun making it. tinkering with acmlmboard code is always a joy

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Sanqui
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Posted on 02-22-22 05:13:11 AM Link | Quote
Kak, what do you think it would take to get your CSS field merged into the main codebase and deployed? Are you interested in making a pull request that with the changes and a description of the schema change?

I also think a clicky CSS thing for editing the CSS/header/footer would be nice.

Also, an alternative would be a checkbox to enable/disable the automatic newlines, while keeping the CSS as a part of headers... maybe a bit easier to implement, but why not go all the way I gues.

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Kaj

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Posted on 02-22-22 07:58:29 AM Link | Quote
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i think a checkbox for disabling automatic newlines would be better honestly. it's simpler, and having it would alleviate having my layout be a mess of a bunch of <divs> on the same line. plus i'd be able to differentiate between the CSS and HTML sections of my layout, since they wouldn't have to be all on the same line

because this is absolutely ridiculous

or we could just have both

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Kak

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Posted on 02-22-22 11:15:56 AM Link | Quote
Post #1923
Originally posted by Sanqui
Kak, what do you think it would take to get your CSS field merged into the main codebase and deployed? Are you interested in making a pull request that with the changes and a description of the schema change?

I also think a clicky CSS thing for editing the CSS/header/footer would be nice.

Also, an alternative would be a checkbox to enable/disable the automatic newlines, while keeping the CSS as a part of headers... maybe a bit easier to implement, but why not go all the way I gues.
It would take having a completely working board on localhost, which I'm currently setting up. So yes, I can try

As for actually adding the CSS field, I don't have anything in mind that would be particularly difficult to port over, it's a matter of dealing with the different way the page layout is handled (the editprofile/edituser split, different css, etc...) and with posts_text being split from posts. The way the 'css' field is handled is almost identical to 'postheader' and 'signature' anyway.

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Posted on 02-22-22 11:54:25 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Nanashi
i vaguely recall there being long ago a "post background" field at some point, which obviously didn't work

i also remember the "no layout makers" talk but that was iirc in reference to a particular old jank one that was circulating around


the post background thing was removed not because it didn't work, but because it was unintuitive and led to problems. it'd just insert a div with a background into your post, but make no other changes, so people would put in images that might look nice as a desktop wallpaper or whatever but made posts unreadable, and it didn't even fill the post area


Originally posted by Joe
Huh, I thought that one particular layout maker was discouraged because it created surprisingly large amounts of code for otherwise simple layouts.

Speaking of which.

there was one specific layout maker that was discouraged (and which triggered a special message on that page) because it generated a ton of crap code and iirc also resulted in "fixed height" posts that brought in their own scrollbars



the solution some other places did was to just not do automatic new-lines in headers or signatures, though now you have to content with old posts / layouts that were designed with such in mind



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Posted on 02-22-22 11:55:40 AM Link | Quote
one sign of the times is that the top layout on that chart is so large it would take about 7 seconds, per post, to load on dialup

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Jul - Meta - a CSS field for editprofile.php New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

30 database queries, 2 query cache hits.
Query execution time:  0.087846 seconds
Script execution time:  0.058093 seconds
Total render time:  0.145939 seconds


TidyHTML vomit below
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line 527 column 499 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 529 column 700 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 536 column 16 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 536 column 16 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 536 column 59 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 536 column 59 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 536 column 102 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 536 column 102 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 536 column 145 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 536 column 145 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 537 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 537 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 537 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 537 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 538 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 548 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 565 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 576 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 708 column 794 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 710 column 995 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 717 column 15 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 717 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 717 column 58 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 717 column 58 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 717 column 101 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 717 column 101 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 717 column 144 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 717 column 144 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 717 column 187 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 717 column 187 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 717 column 230 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 717 column 230 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 717 column 273 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 717 column 273 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 717 column 316 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 717 column 316 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 717 column 359 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 717 column 359 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 718 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 718 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 718 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 718 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 719 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 729 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 736 column 260 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 738 column 381 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 748 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 748 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 748 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 748 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 749 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 759 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 768 column 1417 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 776 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 776 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 776 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 776 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 787 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 920 column 707 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 922 column 908 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 929 column 21 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 930 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 930 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 930 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 930 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 931 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 941 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 957 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 957 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 957 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 957 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 958 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 968 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 984 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 985 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 985 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 985 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 985 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 986 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 996 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1009 column 3033 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 1009 column 3033 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1020 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1020 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1020 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1020 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1031 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1165 column 1218 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1167 column 1419 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1174 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1175 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1175 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1175 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1175 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1176 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1186 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1195 column 2331 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 1195 column 2331 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1203 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1203 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1203 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1203 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1214 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1357 column 962 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1359 column 1163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1366 column 16 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 1366 column 16 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1366 column 59 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 1366 column 59 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1366 column 102 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 1366 column 102 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1366 column 145 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 1366 column 145 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1367 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1367 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1367 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1367 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1368 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1378 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1397 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1397 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1397 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1397 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1408 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1542 column 784 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 1542 column 784 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1545 column 992 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1547 column 1191 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1554 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1555 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1555 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1555 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1555 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1556 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1566 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1577 column 2849 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 1577 column 2849 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1587 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1587 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1587 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1587 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1588 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1598 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1629 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1629 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1629 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1629 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1630 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1640 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1647 column 900 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 1656 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 1656 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 1656 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 1665 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1670 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 1346 column 377 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 1346 column 437 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 1346 column 486 - Warning: trimming empty <label>
line 1650 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 212 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 368 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 401 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 553 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 581 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 734 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 764 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 768 column 1408 - Warning: <marquee> is not approved by W3C
line 792 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 946 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 973 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 1001 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 1036 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 1191 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 1219 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 1383 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 1413 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 1571 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 1603 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 1645 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 367 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md