Originally posted by Xkeeper

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I've been kind of "over" them for a while — while there's some skill involved, sure, too much of it feels like it just boils down to who gets luckiest with a gamble or choice they end up making. The tournaments haven't helped because they're just, ironically, the same thing over and over, and seeing someone lose because of a single decision sucks.

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I'm there with you. Racing randomizers is something I could see people doing casually between friends maybe, but I actually find the entire racing culture surrounding the randomizers to be pretty toxic. I tried to get into running the alttp one and playing on the weekly seed or whatever..., and it always just made me feel like shit rather than that I was having fun.

There is some sort of expectation there that everyone should just have the mindset of a speedrunner and keep playing and playing more and get better and better, rather than just, I dunno, joining for casual fun. I just ended up swearing of the entire thing, if I'm gonna play some randomizer I'm gonna do it because I *want* to and with people that are actually fun to play with.

Originally posted by Xkeeper

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Last I checked, the Z4 Randomizer was Discord-only I can try to get you a link if you'd like, though.

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Oh, they actually sent me a download link on discord already, so I already took it for a spin. As you can imagine, it wasn't that enjoyable.

Originally posted by Xkeeper

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What would really be nice is an eventual way to make fully random dungeons and caves, but I don't think anybody is going to bother doing that any time soon

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Yeah, I would want to see a randomizer that has that sort of effort into it. Be it of an old game, or just a straight up new title. One thing I would have loved to see in the alttp randomizer is *more* dungeons. And which dungeons it select to be random, so you don't quite know what you're in for when it comes to dungeons. As well as thematic options, like, always having an "important" item in the big chest in dungeons, etc.

There is so many angles to expand on and do more. But I can't really blame the alttp team for not doing more, given the amount of work that has gone into it already, etc. That being said, I have no idea who conceptually thought the Z1 style mode was a good idea, it's just a worse version of other modes but with a bunch of reference to Z1 that don't add anything.


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I recently did a run of the OoT randomizer, it was pretty meh. Supposedly current dev versions have some better options for disabling important items being put in random ass caves (OoT has a lot of stupid ones like that). It just ended up not being all that enjoyable, and way too many trips to the master sword pedestal to travel through time. :x

I feel randomizers really needs weighting or specifics in them to make them more interesting. Like, take a link to the past for example. The dungeons generally have very few item locations (lots of chests, but also lots of keys plus map and compass), so they usually end up being the places you *least* want to go to, since it takes a long time to check them, and if you don't have the items needed to beat the dungeon, you're likely to have to come back.

It just creates very bad game flow if you ask me, now the main objective of the game has turned into the least valued location. So one change that could easily be done and to make things more interesting would be: Big chests always have a major item in them. (Any usable item (Bow, hookshots, etc. Any equip-able item (moon pearl, sword upgrades, pegasus boots, etc). Not only does this give you a good game plan, I feel it creates more build up. Most major items you get in randomizers comes out of the blue in some random ass location, and there is seldom any big tension to it. Now you always know it's gonna be something somewhat useful in some spots, even if it might not be what you need.

Another good thing to do would be to outright ban certain hard to find / know about locations from having anything needed progression wise. This varies from game to game, but again to use alttp as an example:
> The death mountain chest where you jump down near turtle rock and go through a long spiral room.
> The cave with a chest you access by using the mirror in one of turtle rock's outdoor sections.
> That one chest in "hookshot cave" that you can get too by bonking with pegasus boots. (I got the hookshot in that one last seed, not that it was a problem to find it for me, but still).

I'm sure there are several other reasons that could be banned from having a main progression item placed in it, and a few that can have decreased odds for it. Heck, if you look at something like ocarina of time, things gets a lot clearer:
> All the random caves you open by bombs or playing the song of storm.



This is getting a bit rant-y, but I see a lot of potential for randomizers, if only there was a willingness to cater towards anything other than speedrunners.





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[WIP layout as it's being made! 'w' ]