Register - Login
Views: 99407779
 Main - Memberlist - Active users - Calendar - Wiki - IRC Chat - Online users
Ranks - Rules/FAQ - Stats - Latest Posts - Color Chart - Smilies		 04-24-22 08:32:27 PM
Jul - General Chat - I wrote a lot of words about stuff, including this place New poll - New thread - New reply
Pages: 1 2 3 4 Next newer thread | Next older thread
— FPzero —
9590



Post 9596/9597
Active 5.4 years ago
Posted on 09-26-16 03:04:17 AM Link | Quote
A number of people are still permabanned from each other's communities over stuff years ago. I know Tyty lost his rustedlogic hosting when he was banned here but he never bothered to try and recover or ask for what he had hosted on there. You're probably still banned on SMWC because of all the ban-vading you did many times. I don't think I ever got permabanned from anywhere but who knows, with enough time it might've happened. It's a commonality with users in our related communities.

____________________
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21859/25343
EXP: 296733909
For next: 2226544

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 3 days
Posted on 09-26-16 05:45:50 AM Link | Quote
Tyty would be welcome here again if he asked. Doesn't mean much, and I'm fairly positive he wouldn't care, but the option is there.


As for the permaban, eh, maybe. I don't even remember what originally started it. I think they just generally didn't like being told that having a kid's panties drop off for a credits sequence was a terrible idea.

____________________
(Lv 231 with 187693265 EXP)
— FPzero —
9590



Post 9597/9597
Active 5.4 years ago
Posted on 09-26-16 06:38:06 PM Link | Quote
I don't think he'd ask. He's the type to not resolve things. I might pass it on at some point though but your prediction is most likely correct.

I agreed with you that that was a terrible idea. If nothing else, I think a lot of others eventually came to that realization too. Dunno if they person who orchestrated that is still on the site at all. I remember a random user getting mad at me that I was threatening to pull my levels from the collab if they didn't remove the dumb ending bit.

Did you know, that hack still isn't out? Though if I remember right the release date is sometime this week whether it's finished or not. The staff is going to officially stop supporting SMWCP2's production after nearly 6 years of development, most of which was inactivity due to overambition making the ASM work too hard.

____________________
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21860/25343
EXP: 296733909
For next: 2226544

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 3 days
Posted on 09-26-16 08:55:13 PM Link | Quote
I kind of wish I a picture of that awful sideways Reggie banzai bill they had for the first one, it'd be a great response to the new one.

____________________
(Lv 231 with 187723717 EXP)
devin

Yoshi
i'm mima irl
Level: 112


Posts: 3239/3519
EXP: 14919633
For next: 418572

Since: 04-29-08

Pronouns: any
From: FL

Since last post: 297 days
Last activity: 2 days
Posted on 09-26-16 08:57:34 PM Link | Quote
Dunno if it still exists, but the sprite was definitely posted somewhere here (or in one of the private forums) years ago. I remember the color palette causing me to compare it to Klaus Nomi for some reason.

____________________
Photo by Luc Viatour
— Bloodstar —
11360
Buy me a trip to the moon
So I can laugh at my mistakes


Post 11179/11363

Joined 07-06-07
Active 2 days ago
Posted on 09-28-16 07:59:17 AM Link | Quote
In a way, I do miss that place. It's been almost four years since I abandoned it entirely for good after one incident, save one night when I went to relocate one of my hacks to give it a playthrough.

I feel like any power I had in the past would be better used these days, though, as opposed to the late 2000s. I remember the whole IRC debacle (shudder), and I'd prefer to forget it.

As for the hack moderation, these days I have a bit more of a grasp on what's good and bad and why things work and don't work. I still think I had at least decent taste in 2008-2009, but I didn't quite completely understand why, to my memory.

Then again, maybe my standards would be a bit too high these days.

(It's funny. I actually talked briefly about how I acted in the past to someone else earlier today. I think a big factor was that I was trapped on 56k when almost everybody else was on a far better connection and could actually do things with each other, yet I was left on the sidelines, so I tended to be impatient and bitter. Sauerbraten was about the only game I could actually play, and rounding up a group for that was difficult.)

____________________
d:3372 p:11179 r:5

A HOMEPAGE
Xeo
Member
Level: 24


Posts: 80/97
EXP: 70097
For next: 8028

Since: 07-28-07


Since last post: 4.7 years
Last activity: 224 days
Posted on 10-04-16 01:21:24 AM Link | Quote
Robbie Rage

Koopa
Level: 21


Posts: 3/104
EXP: 47184
For next: 2759

Since: 11-22-16

From: Funkytown, USA

Since last post: 2.2 years
Last activity: 216 days
Posted on 11-24-16 04:15:05 PM Link | Quote
I know I'm late to the party, but I want to thank you Xkeeper for writing up all of this. As an oldbie from the days of the first incarnation who has spent the past few days trying to figure out what went wrong, this seemed to answer most of my questions. So, kudos to you.

However, I find myself wondering what is really desired here. Is the end goal to build a community like the original Acmlmboard, or improve this one as much as possible?

If the goal is to improve this community, I like the proposed idea of a time / post based "lock" on users to open up certain areas of this board. I definitely see the need / original intention behind a board like Jul, so I really wouldn't worry about being all things to all people. Jul is tough enough to find as it is, so I can't see a measure like this affecting the core community here very much at all.

However, if the goal is to build a vibrant, active community open to a wider audience, perhaps a different approach would be helpful. From what I've seen thus far, the people who ask about someone "creating a new community" are often really asking about bringing back the best parts of a previously existing one. In this case, referring to the robust community that was the Acmlm's Board I1 & I2 era.

If the goal is to create a bigger, well-regulated community, I wonder if integration with the only other major semi-active AB in a Google search, Kafuka, is the way to go. Those that remain on that forum seem to carry the same spirit of "wisdom with age" and the desire for a better community that this place does. It just seems a bit odd to me that two communities with members who have similar values and goals don't team up to a common end.

There's a lot I could say on this subject, but right now I'm more curious about where people stand. What is it that people really want here?
Ailure
Member
Level: 13


Posts: 22/25
EXP: 9187
For next: 1080

Since: 07-11-07

From: Schweden

Since last post: 4.7 years
Last activity: 4.6 years
Posted on 12-22-16 06:11:37 AM Link | Quote
Ah yes, SMWCentral, aka what stole a lot of activity from Acmlm Board 2/Board 2 (I honestly don't remember if it happened before/after the rename). Funny you mention that, Kafuka Board was intended as a sorta reboot, a sort of resetting from the bad will that some people had with Board 2. There are some politics involved I don't want to go into publically though, but I can say that in retroperpsective most past drama seems so very dumb now.

Generally though I feel that the age of small communities has long passed, which is kinda a shame.

____________________
AIM: gamefreak1337, MSN: Emil_sim@spray.se, XMPP: ailure@xmpp.kafuka.org


Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21887/25343
EXP: 296733909
For next: 2226544

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 3 days
Posted on 12-22-16 11:32:16 PM (last edited by Xkeeper at 12-22-16 11:37:45 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Robbie Rage
I know I'm late to the party, but I want to thank you Xkeeper for writing up all of this. As an oldbie from the days of the first incarnation who has spent the past few days trying to figure out what went wrong, this seemed to answer most of my questions. So, kudos to you.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm even later.

There were a lot of problems with the old communities, and a lot of rookie mistakes that I learned from. But the past is the past, and there's not much we can do about it in the present.

However, I find myself wondering what is really desired here. Is the end goal to build a community like the original Acmlmboard, or improve this one as much as possible?

There wasn't really a goal. I don't think there can be a community here any more, beyond what there is now; we don't have a focus beyond TCRF, which is generally already well-served by its wiki and IRC channel. I just wanted to talk about what things used to be for a while.

If the goal is to improve this community, I like the proposed idea of a time / post based "lock" on users to open up certain areas of this board. I definitely see the need / original intention behind a board like Jul, so I really wouldn't worry about being all things to all people. Jul is tough enough to find as it is, so I can't see a measure like this affecting the core community here very much at all.

I don't really understand what you mean by this. (But you haven't been here in a while, so I'm worried I won't get to find out.) If you mean the "hidden community" portion, that isn't a time or post-based lock as much as it is a "we think we can trust someone" privilege. I don't think it can be revoked or expanded greatly without potentially opening up worse issues, as there is a lot of private stuff that has been posted.

To be honest, the system would probably have worked better if it was more like a journal instead of a forum, so people could choose who could see their threads (e.g. certain groups or "friends"). But this was before Twitter or other social networks really existed.


However, if the goal is to build a vibrant, active community open to a wider audience, perhaps a different approach would be helpful. From what I've seen thus far, the people who ask about someone "creating a new community" are often really asking about bringing back the best parts of a previously existing one. In this case, referring to the robust community that was the Acmlm's Board I1 & I2 era.

The community of the old days was largely formed around ROM Hacking, which is a dying art, and only getting moreso every day. Even back then it was starting to fade from its absolute heyday, and at this point it's better served by many other communities out there — even, ugh, RHDN.

The concept of a "general bullshit" forum has largely only succeeded when you reach "critical mass", a size so large that its size alone attracts new people. Even Something Awful has been falling behind that; someone's done some research showing that new user registrations and activity in general are down over the last few years by quite a bit. Social media, micro-updates, and other things have largely killed off the old forum.

If the goal is to create a bigger, well-regulated community, I wonder if integration with the only other major semi-active AB in a Google search, Kafuka, is the way to go. Those that remain on that forum seem to carry the same spirit of "wisdom with age" and the desire for a better community that this place does. It just seems a bit odd to me that two communities with members who have similar values and goals don't team up to a common end.


Kafuka is a board that was created from the fragment of board2 that was left when I got forcibly exiled from it. I have absolutely no desire to try to merge the communities or staff at all (and I do not plan on relinquishing my control over Jul, because... well, split control like that is a disaster. I've already dealt with this enough times and I don't want to do it again.

The people from there are welcome here any time, mind. But I suspect that most of them won't want to come visit That is a little mean-spirited and doesn't convey what I meant. To put it a better way, "I don't think most of them will want to leave their (similarly) established community to migrate here". They might visit, but Kafuka is "home" to them, much like Jul is home to me.

There's a lot I could say on this subject, but right now I'm more curious about where people stand. What is it that people really want here?

I used to want to see this community thrive, but I think right now I am okay with seeing it just survive. This forum — or at least, the community that exists here and on IRC — is comfortable and known. There are still some problems, but it's a familiar place I can be with friends.

I don't think that this place will ever be anything different. That's not to say that I would actively be against it somehow revitalizing, but right now, I don't really intend to try to do anything to solve it.


Originally posted by Ailure
Ah yes, SMWCentral, aka what stole a lot of activity from Acmlm Board 2/Board 2 (I honestly don't remember if it happened before/after the rename).

SMW Central happened at the end of the second incarnation/third incarnation, due to the requirement of "approval" to post in those forums. (In retrospect, stricter moderation would have been better, but this forum doesn't really have good moderator tools.) Enough people got fed up that they moved.

You can still see the echoes of the community ethos in things like that awful "panty drop" thing. That would have never flown here (and the person who suggested it probably would have gotten a hefty ban).

Funny you mention that, Kafuka Board was intended as a sorta reboot, a sort of resetting from the bad will that some people had with Board 2. There are some politics involved I don't want to go into publicly though, but I can say that in retrospective most past drama seems so very dumb now.

Generally though I feel that the age of small communities has long passed, which is kinda a shame.

Founded by Emuz, of course. I don't understand how people can stand that person. He always makes grand plans about how he's going to make (thing) wonderful again, and then proceeds to vanish after getting everyone worked up.

I still haven't forgotten how my time at Acmlm's Board II ended.

____________________
(Lv 232 with 190485404 EXP)
Ailure
Member
Level: 13


Posts: 23/25
EXP: 9187
For next: 1080

Since: 07-11-07

From: Schweden

Since last post: 4.7 years
Last activity: 4.6 years
Posted on 12-23-16 12:43:13 PM (last edited by Ailure at 12-23-16 12:51:42 PM) Link | Quote
Emuz means well most of the time, but it did really boil down to people no that having that much time anymore (the failed post tRO server revival comes to mind in particular).
Originally posted by Xkeeper
SMW Central happened at the end of the second incarnation/third incarnation, due to the requirement of "approval" to post in those forums. (In retrospect, stricter moderation would have been better, but this forum doesn't really have good moderator tools.) Enough people got fed up that they moved.

I remember quite well it was both the most active and yet infamous part of the forum due to the amount of users flooding in. And yeah, stricter moderation would been better as opposed to restricting posting, but the main negative thing about the old Acmlm board culture (that did seep into both Board2 and JUL culture afterwards) was the elitism, people liked to counter ignorance by being mean even if a lot of the time it might been someone younger or less experienced, and thus probably only helped to limit the flow of fresh blood (but we covered this elsewhere already before I think ).

Nowadays I focus mostly on cutting off assholes early and fast when moderating places, especially if it's people who like to edge the line on whats allowed. That was another problem with the older Acmlm Board moderation unfortunatly, some troublemakers got to stick around for way too long.

____________________
AIM: gamefreak1337, MSN: Emil_sim@spray.se, XMPP: ailure@xmpp.kafuka.org


Robbie Rage

Koopa
Level: 21


Posts: 5/104
EXP: 47184
For next: 2759

Since: 11-22-16

From: Funkytown, USA

Since last post: 2.2 years
Last activity: 216 days
Posted on 12-23-16 12:57:31 PM Link | Quote
Thanks for the reply! I'll try to address the main points here as best as I can:

Originally posted by Xkeeper
There wasn't really a goal. I don't think there can be a community here any more, beyond what there is now; we don't have a focus beyond TCRF, which is generally already well-served by its wiki and IRC channel. I just wanted to talk about what things used to be for a while.


I had a feeling that was the case, but with the odd comment from others here and there about new users and such made me question that. That, and occasionally other users from the Acmlmboard "universe" will reference other boards and each other. So I was left a bit confused as to what people (and you) wanted out of a place like Jul and other Acmlmboards.

Originally posted by Xkeeper
I don't really understand what you mean by this. (But you haven't been here in a while, so I'm worried I won't get to find out.) If you mean the "hidden community" portion, that isn't a time or post-based lock as much as it is a "we think we can trust someone" privilege. I don't think it can be revoked or expanded greatly without potentially opening up worse issues, as there is a lot of private stuff that has been posted.


What I was referencing here was indeed the "hidden community" portion. From what I've seen, Jul is hidden and niche enough that, at the time, I believed that alone could work as a deterrent. I thought that those who actually find this place, stick around for a long enough period of time, and make enough posts could eventually prove themselves trustworthy enough.

However, this might only help if an attempted expansion of activity is what people actually want. A solution to something that isn't a problem is no solution at all.

Originally posted by Xkeeper
The community of the old days was largely formed around ROM Hacking, which is a dying art, and only getting moreso every day. Even back then it was starting to fade from its absolute heyday, and at this point it's better served by many other communities out there — even, ugh, RHDN.

The concept of a "general bullshit" forum has largely only succeeded when you reach "critical mass", a size so large that its size alone attracts new people. Even Something Awful has been falling behind that; someone's done some research showing that new user registrations and activity in general are down over the last few years by quite a bit. Social media, micro-updates, and other things have largely killed off the old forum.


This is one point that I do not fully agree with. While the backbone of the old forum was indeed ROM hacking, not everyone who showed up and stayed was a ROM Hacker or a programmer. I certainly was neither of these things. I was into role playing and video games, so the general Mario/RPG aesthetic got my attention, and the RP forums got me to stay beyond the "general bullshit" forum need.

While mediums like Facebook, Twitter, and Discord might scratch that online social "itch" for some people, Acmlmboards like Jul play a much different role in practice. Any community has it's own unique "tone" not just from the unique features that it provides, but also from the users it brings in and maintains. This difference in community tone and service, while not as gigantic as in it's heyday, can still have a unique appeal like it does for us.

Put another way, if Facebook is like a Big Mac in a shopping mall food court, places like this are like freshly grilled burgers in the backyard. You still get fed, but the quality and flavor is vastly different, and will have a much greater appeal for many.

Originally posted by Xkeeper
Kafuka is a board that was created from the fragment of board2 that was left when I got forcibly exiled from it. I have absolutely no desire to try to merge the communities or staff at all (and I do not plan on relinquishing my control over Jul, because... well, split control like that is a disaster. I've already dealt with this enough times and I don't want to do it again.


I feel like I didn't phrase this one quite right. When I spoke of "integration", I was speaking purely on a general user level, never from an administrative one. I know fully well that formally attempting to do something like that is a virtual logistical impossibility, and would just tear communities apart even further. Again, during the I1 and I2 days, most of the staff issues really didn't affect me as a normal user much at all until a board reset occurred. I have always been just a normal user, and cannot truly speak from any perspective other than that.

Originally posted by Xkeeper
The people from there are welcome here any time, mind. But I suspect that most of them won't want to come visit That is a little mean-spirited and doesn't convey what I meant. To put it a better way, "I don't think most of them will want to leave their (similarly) established community to migrate here". They might visit, but Kafuka is "home" to them, much like Jul is home to me.


This is more of what I was referring to, and that's the beauty of the internet. "Migration" isn't really nesscessary in a case like this. People can freely post and "intermingle" on all boards, which is really more of what I had in mind.

As for the "home board" idea, I feel like that isn't quite as universal as it may seem. I don't really see myself as being tied down to one particular place. It just so happens that Kafuka as it stands today has a lot more of the old Acmlmboard features and vibe that I missed, so the vast majority of my activity will go there rather than Jul. I'll still pop in and lurk around here every so often, I just feel less inclined to post more frequently here than I do on Kafuka.

Originally posted by Xkeeper
I used to want to see this community thrive, but I think right now I am okay with seeing it just survive. This forum — or at least, the community that exists here and on IRC — is comfortable and known. There are still some problems, but it's a familiar place I can be with friends.

I don't think that this place will ever be anything different. That's not to say that I would actively be against it somehow revitalizing, but right now, I don't really intend to try to do anything to solve it.


And that just confirms what I kinda figured. I always knew Jul was your baby, and the privacy of yourself and it's core users seemed understandably paramount. When I first made my post, I confess that I was on a bit of a nostalgia high and wanted to see what was possible to recreate the best of the I1 and I2 days while learning from the past. I don't blame you at all for wanting to retain what good you still have here.

Originally posted by Ailure
the main negative thing about the old Acmlm board culture (that did seep into both Board2 and JUL culture afterwards) was the elitism, people liked to counter ignorance by being mean even if a lot of the time it might been someone younger or less experienced, and thus probably only helped to limit the flow of fresh blood (but we covered this elsewhere already before I think ).


Now THIS I remember. For whatever reason, much of the audience of I1 and I2 did skew kinda young, and I was there too. I also remember that some of my earliest I1 posts were some of the absolute stupidest posts ever typed, and it was a valuable period of learning for me. Like it was said, if you end up pushing too hard, you end up losing someone who could eventually grow into a better member of the community.

While this may not be an issue on Jul so much anymore, I've seen it elsewhere, and I really don't care to ever see it again.
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21897/25343
EXP: 296733909
For next: 2226544

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 3 days
Posted on 12-23-16 05:03:10 PM Link | Quote
So many words, so little time...

Originally posted by Ailure
Emuz means well most of the time, but it did really boil down to people no that having that much time anymore (the failed post tRO server revival comes to mind in particular).
Originally posted by Xkeeper
SMW Central happened at the end of the second incarnation/third incarnation, due to the requirement of "approval" to post in those forums. (In retrospect, stricter moderation would have been better, but this forum doesn't really have good moderator tools.) Enough people got fed up that they moved.

I remember quite well it was both the most active and yet infamous part of the forum due to the amount of users flooding in. And yeah, stricter moderation would been better as opposed to restricting posting, but the main negative thing about the old Acmlm board culture (that did seep into both Board2 and JUL culture afterwards) was the elitism, people liked to counter ignorance by being mean even if a lot of the time it might been someone younger or less experienced, and thus probably only helped to limit the flow of fresh blood (but we covered this elsewhere already before I think ).

Nowadays I focus mostly on cutting off assholes early and fast when moderating places, especially if it's people who like to edge the line on whats allowed. That was another problem with the older Acmlm Board moderation unfortunatly, some troublemakers got to stick around for way too long.


Unfortunately, meaning well doesn't mean much if your choices still cause problems. Interfering with things just to bail out when the metaphorical going gets tough is a way to disaster, and it's one of the various things that led board2 to ruin (to say nothing of the other various projects he's tried to resurrect).

The elitism thing has been known for a while. It isn't helped by some people who think they're better than others. But I start to wonder if some of it wasn't partially from wearing-out of patience? If you have to deal with a constant stream of garbage posts, you'll eventually become less and less inclined to give them any leeway. You get so sick and tired of it that it's easier to just degrade and belittle the other than to work towards helping them grow.

As for troublemakers, yes, that happened too. There was a lot of times where it was easier to let things slide than it was to take action. That actually came back to bite me, if you remember things like blackhole89 getting upset about someone getting banned; even though they were causing problems, he disagreed about it so strongly that... well. Unfortunately, that kind of leeway lends itself towards forming an unstable equilibrium; you don't want to hand out dicipline to people who are being mild jerks for fear of turning the others into much larger jerks... but this can be seen by others as condoning their behavior, too, so people who are less tolerant of people being assholes are more inclined to leave.

Eevee wrote a lot of words on the subject of moderation already, which I pretty much agree with. If you've been here long enough, you'll see exactly what they describe in the history of this community.


On a side note, though, at least I can say that we didn't ever drop to RHDN levels by allowing the BadderHacks crew to exist here at all. Score one for us.

____________________
(Lv 232 with 190636063 EXP)
shibs
User
Level: 12


Posts: 11/23
EXP: 6316
For next: 1605

Since: 05-02-13


Since last post: 3.3 years
Last activity: 3.3 years
Posted on 12-23-16 10:11:37 PM Link | Quote
I'm pretty sure that the old members miss when everybody actually got along and there wasn't so much drama against many communities. Times have changed.

____________________
RHCafe - NSMBU Hacking and more!
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21903/25343
EXP: 296733909
For next: 2226544

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 3 days
Posted on 12-24-16 11:47:57 PM Link | Quote
Easy to say, but I don't think I agree (and I hate the word "drama" getting used so much); back then there was still plenty of strife between members and staff. It only really reached a breaking point when the forums themselves were ruined over it (i.e. when I2 because I3, I3 because AB2, AB2 because b2/Jul, etc.)

I would even go as far as to argue that right now, at least here, everybody genearlly does get along; it's more just that we don't have time to really invest in being angry at people when Real Life™ occupies most of our time. The only major events I can see "recently" that caused a major problem were things like GamerGate and Trump, which are the kind of things that would cause a major split in any community that's as diverse as this one.



____________________
(Lv 232 with 190749712 EXP)
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21904/25343
EXP: 296733909
For next: 2226544

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 3 days
Posted on 12-25-16 12:08:06 AM Link | Quote
Sorry it has taken so long to reply. The problem with megaposts like this is that it's very hard to digest and reply, because there are so many different chains of thought. I will try to be more concise this time.


Originally posted by Robbie Rage
What I was referencing here was indeed the "hidden community" portion. From what I've seen, Jul is hidden and niche enough that, at the time, I believed that alone could work as a deterrent. I thought that those who actually find this place, stick around for a long enough period of time, and make enough posts could eventually prove themselves trustworthy enough.

However, this might only help if an attempted expansion of activity is what people actually want. A solution to something that isn't a problem is no solution at all.

The private sections of the forum have been getting officially discouraged by me, to try to shift the (admittedly little) posting that happens there into the public areas, with an exception for things that need to be private. This is also why #x has been a little more active than usual, actually.

The original solution of having the private forums was a ham-fisted solution to a problem of wanting a private place to discuss things; originally this whole board was private, as a side-area for personal friends, and it suddenly got thrust into public view when the board2 split happened. I just kind of kept going down that path, and it retrospect it wasn't the best idea.


This is one point that I do not fully agree with. While the backbone of the old forum was indeed ROM hacking, not everyone who showed up and stayed was a ROM Hacker or a programmer. I certainly was neither of these things. I was into role playing and video games, so the general Mario/RPG aesthetic got my attention, and the RP forums got me to stay beyond the "general bullshit" forum need.

While mediums like Facebook, Twitter, and Discord might scratch that online social "itch" for some people, Acmlmboards like Jul play a much different role in practice. Any community has it's own unique "tone" not just from the unique features that it provides, but also from the users it brings in and maintains. This difference in community tone and service, while not as gigantic as in it's heyday, can still have a unique appeal like it does for us.

Put another way, if Facebook is like a Big Mac in a shopping mall food court, places like this are like freshly grilled burgers in the backyard. You still get fed, but the quality and flavor is vastly different, and will have a much greater appeal for many.

I wasn't trying to imply that ROM hacking was the sole reason for the existence of Acmlm's Board's activity, but more that it acted like a "focal point"; a better real-life example might be something of a club for people about (thing). People initially come to it because of the thing, but as time goes on the group may branch out into unrelated activities (say, going to a movie on the weekend, meetups, etc). People start bringing their friends, who aren't interested in the original thing, and suddenly you have a general-purpose group of friends that had its roots in one thing but is now mostly focused on something else.

Acmlm's Board was that. People came for ROM hacking, but stayed because of things like the Story Forum or the forum games (and the news, back when the internet wasn't as aggregated as it is now); as those parts grew, other people joined for them, and so on. But without any of those things, and without a "critical mass", you can't just start a group and have it survive. There's way too much competition on that front from social media now.



As for the "home board" idea, I feel like that isn't quite as universal as it may seem. I don't really see myself as being tied down to one particular place. It just so happens that Kafuka as it stands today has a lot more of the old Acmlmboard features and vibe that I missed, so the vast majority of my activity will go there rather than Jul. I'll still pop in and lurk around here every so often, I just feel less inclined to post more frequently here than I do on Kafuka.

I find it a little ironic that you talk about having more of the old Acmlmboard features when this forum flat-out is the old Acmlmboard.

As for the vibe, though, I understand. Jul was always a little elitist "focused on quality of posts", because for a long time we saw the kind of rapid, low-content posting as spam that needed to be removed. It was a fairly oppressing atmosphere and it drove some people away (what fun is there to be had if you can't relax and just chill?). I've tried to shake that for now, but there isn't really enough activity here to make a difference.


And that just confirms what I kinda figured. I always knew Jul was your baby, and the privacy of yourself and it's core users seemed understandably paramount. When I first made my post, I confess that I was on a bit of a nostalgia high and wanted to see what was possible to recreate the best of the I1 and I2 days while learning from the past. I don't blame you at all for wanting to retain what good you still have here.

Jul is... I wouldn't say it was my baby, as much as it was an increasingly frustrated series of attempts to recreate the nostalgia we felt with the original Acmlm's Board, all the way back to the beginning. The problem was that, not only were we a little naive with our goal... but that the atmosphere on the internet had been changing, too. It has been a losing battle for 10 long years.

That is what I mean when I say I have kind of accepted the fate Jul has now. I would love to see this place somewhat active again, but... part of it was just that, back then, a lot of us were unemployed, or at school, and had a lot more free time to just piss away on the internet. These days, there's so much less of that time, and so much more pressure to be "productive", that just chatting feels like a waste of time. I barely check this place any more because I'm usually so busy doing other things...


Now THIS I remember. For whatever reason, much of the audience of I1 and I2 did skew kinda young, and I was there too. I also remember that some of my earliest I1 posts were some of the absolute stupidest posts ever typed, and it was a valuable period of learning for me. Like it was said, if you end up pushing too hard, you end up losing someone who could eventually grow into a better member of the community.

While this may not be an issue on Jul so much anymore, I've seen it elsewhere, and I really don't care to ever see it again.

I feel like I mentioned it before, but it's very hard to tell the difference between someone who is being intentionally obtuse (being hard to work with or understand on purpose, trying to troll, etc) and someone who is legitimately learning and will be receptive to feedback... especially when you also have to weigh the feelings of other users who are getting annoyed by it. If they turn out to be bad, you've just ended up driving off people who were getting tired of what was legitimately garbage; if they turn out to be good, you've potentially driven someone away.

Administrating isn't a black and white affair, and there is a lot of room to make mistakes. I will be the first in line to admit that we have made many over the years.


Hmm, I don't think I really managed to be concise this time. Sorry. These sorts of things tend to draw out the big effort posts from me, I guess.

____________________
(Lv 232 with 190763161 EXP)
Lunaria

Moon Bunny! :3
Level: 139


Posts: 5264/5751
EXP: 32001992
For next: 465453

Since: 07-28-07

Pronouns: she/her
From: pile of fluff

Since last post: 69 days
Last activity: 2 days
Posted on 12-26-16 06:40:42 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper
As for the vibe, though, I understand. Jul was always a little elitist "focused on quality of posts", because for a long time we saw the kind of rapid, low-content posting as spam that needed to be removed. It was a fairly oppressing atmosphere and it drove some people away (what fun is there to be had if you can't relax and just chill?). I've tried to shake that for now, but there isn't really enough activity here to make a difference.
I'm not sure if I entirely agree with the idea of "quality posts" always being the main goal. The elitism has always been there in the background of this forum, no argument there. But we legitimately have a system in place (syndromes) that encourages unhinged posting in massive qualities. And whenever one of those really large post sprees happened, the quality went out the window pretty darn quickly.


____________________
Start 9
Xkeeper

Level: 263


Posts: 21922/25343
EXP: 296733909
For next: 2226544

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 3 days
Posted on 12-26-16 11:38:15 PM (last edited by Xkeeper at 12-26-16 11:38:25 PM) Link | Quote
And how often did syndromes happen? A better idea might be to take a look at the ACS, which was cancelled because it "contributed to people posting for the sake of posting", then occasionally brought back as a "maybe it will help encourage activity" thing.

____________________
(Lv 232 with 191052932 EXP)
Drag
2640
Level: 99


Posts: 2624/2641
EXP: 9982343
For next: 17657

Since: 07-03-07


Since last post: 4.2 years
Last activity: 3.3 years
Posted on 12-27-16 04:57:56 AM Link | Quote
Returning to facebook and twitter for a moment, I've pretty much stopped using facebook because it got tiring. It's your friends and family basically shouting into the void, getting some likes and comments, but nothing really worthwhile otherwise. Most of the time, it's just someone else's meme being shared, and it's usually some kind of political image or some kind of empowerment image that really is unnecessary and it's all you see in your feed. Then you get people talking about working out, or visiting Germany, or posting a bottomless barrel of a newborn baby photos (one time, it was a pic of a baby who had literally just been extracted). As much as I like keeping in touch, it didn't feel meaningful; I'd post updates and people would see them, but I wouldn't get anything out of the attention, and it'd be pointless to post about programming or game design or any other expert topics because only 2 of the possibly 100 friends I had would understand any of it. I'd see updates from friends and family (a handful close, the vast majority distant), and I just wouldn't care about most of it. That's not to say I don't care about those people, but everything was mundane and wasn't making me think, and with that realization comes the realization that the same thing happens when you post something.

Twitter is too short term and attention-deficit to hold any meaningful conversation on, plus it's 100% public and the same thing happens as on facebook. I have 50 followers, I follow people who have thousands of followers, nothing I say will reach anyone, versus things these more popular people say. Twitter is ok if all you want to do is dump your thoughts into the void, but for getting much else out of it, you're boned unless you're a cat doing something funny or are megapopular. Plus, bots follow you and that's not helping. That and there's a higher stranger-danger; if someone makes you uncomfortable, they can do it to no limit, there's nobody you can go to for help, all you can do is block, which is fine and dandy up until they start making sock puppet accounts. Also, most public spaces are full of ads and just want to maximize the ability to make money off you.

Maybe I'm oldschool, but a community feels more productive than any social media sites do. Only a fraction of the people here know me, but I know you all likely have similar interests to mine, and I know that a lot more people will see anything I post here versus knowing only your 50 followers will ever see you said anything before it's lost. All social media is like that to me, the only time I ever get anything meaningful is when I post here or on nesdev, which thank goodness it exists, or else I'd have nobody to talk to about supernerd stuff. I don't care about being popular at all, and therefore, will never have a strong presence on social media, so someone like me benefits from a fixed community versus a vastly random and public space to shout in.

That last paragraph is the reason message boards will never fully die and why this place will still be around (in some form) 10 years from now. It won't be as active as 10 years ago, and it won't have the same rate of new users, but it'll never die because it provides stuff that the public spaces don't.

____________________
Rachel Mae

Creature of Chaos
Level: 141


Posts: 5777/5929
EXP: 33577771
For next: 542243

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: she/her
From: Foxglen

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 17 hours
Posted on 12-27-16 06:18:42 AM Link | Quote
"Shouting into the void" is a pretty apt description of the modern Internet in general.

____________________
Pages: 1 2 3 4 Next newer thread | Next older thread
Jul - General Chat - I wrote a lot of words about stuff, including this place New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
©2000-2022 Acmlm, Xkeeper, Kaito Sinclaire, et al.

32 database queries, 2 query cache hits.
Query execution time:  0.092686 seconds
Script execution time:  0.046391 seconds
Total render time:  0.139077 seconds


TidyHTML vomit below
line 1 column 1 - Warning: missing <!DOCTYPE> declaration
line 2 column 301 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 119 column 11 - Warning: <form> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 118 column 10 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 120 column 11 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 120 column 119 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 124 column 16 - Warning: plain text isn't allowed in <tr> elements
line 120 column 11 - Info: <tr> previously mentioned
line 125 column 68 - Warning: missing </nobr> before </td>
line 141 column 68 - Warning: missing </nobr> before <tr>
line 147 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 147 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 148 column 37 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&id"
line 147 column 216 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 149 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 149 column 95 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 149 column 128 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 149 column 163 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 149 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 149 column 198 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 155 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 156 column 25 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 158 column 33 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 166 column 25 - Warning: plain text isn't allowed in <tr> elements
line 156 column 25 - Info: <tr> previously mentioned
line 168 column 33 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 169 column 122 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 169 column 47 - Warning: missing </nobr> before </table>
line 173 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 175 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 193 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 194 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 196 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 196 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 201 column 15 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 202 column 25 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 204 column 33 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 212 column 25 - Warning: plain text isn't allowed in <tr> elements
line 202 column 25 - Info: <tr> previously mentioned
line 214 column 33 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 215 column 122 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 215 column 47 - Warning: missing </nobr> before </table>
line 223 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 225 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 243 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 244 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 246 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 246 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 249 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 251 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 269 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 270 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 274 column 15 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 275 column 25 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 277 column 33 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 287 column 25 - Warning: plain text isn't allowed in <tr> elements
line 275 column 25 - Info: <tr> previously mentioned
line 289 column 33 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 290 column 122 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 290 column 47 - Warning: missing </nobr> before </table>
line 292 column 99 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 292 column 25 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 292 column 377 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 292 column 632 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 301 column 2169 - Warning: missing </center>
line 304 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 306 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 324 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 325 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 327 column 129 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 327 column 133 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 327 column 129 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 327 column 1255 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 327 column 1316 - Warning: missing </div>
line 327 column 1208 - Warning: missing </div>
line 327 column 1186 - Warning: missing </div>
line 327 column 1166 - Warning: missing </div>
line 327 column 1147 - Warning: missing </div>
line 327 column 1129 - Warning: missing </div>
line 340 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 342 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 360 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 361 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 363 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 363 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 363 column 334 - Warning: missing </div>
line 376 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 378 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 396 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 397 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 406 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 408 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 426 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 427 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 429 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 429 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 473 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 475 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 493 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 494 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 504 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 506 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 524 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 525 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 527 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 527 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 527 column 334 - Warning: missing </div>
line 572 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 574 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 592 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 593 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 595 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 595 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 614 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 616 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 634 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 635 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 640 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 642 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 660 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 661 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 663 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 663 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 670 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 672 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 690 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 691 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 693 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 693 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 738 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 740 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 742 column 147 - Warning: <font> unexpected or duplicate quote mark
line 742 column 147 - Warning: <font> attribute with missing trailing quote mark
line 758 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 759 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 761 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 761 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 761 column 1202 - Warning: missing </b> before <blockquote>
line 761 column 1184 - Warning: missing </font> before <blockquote>
line 761 column 1217 - Warning: inserting implicit <font>
line 761 column 1217 - Warning: inserting implicit <b>
line 761 column 1217 - Warning: missing </b> before <hr>
line 761 column 1217 - Warning: missing </font> before <hr>
line 761 column 1281 - Warning: inserting implicit <font>
line 761 column 1281 - Warning: inserting implicit <b>
line 761 column 1281 - Warning: missing </b> before <hr>
line 761 column 1281 - Warning: missing </font> before <hr>
line 761 column 1745 - Warning: inserting implicit <font>
line 761 column 1745 - Warning: inserting implicit <b>
line 763 column 2205 - Warning: inserting implicit <font>
line 763 column 2211 - Warning: discarding unexpected </font>
line 766 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 768 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 786 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 787 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 789 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 789 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 792 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 794 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 812 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 813 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 815 column 74 - Warning: <style> isn't allowed in <td> elements
line 815 column 9 - Info: <td> previously mentioned
line 815 column 1037 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 824 column 9 - Warning: <div> isn't allowed in <table> elements
line 152 column 17 - Info: <table> previously mentioned
line 826 column 9 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 844 column 13 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 845 column 102 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&postid"
line 850 column 17 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 850 column 17 - Warning: discarding unexpected <table>
line 853 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 853 column 95 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 853 column 128 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 853 column 163 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&page"
line 853 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 853 column 198 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 855 column 35 - Warning: missing <tr>
line 855 column 50 - Warning: missing </font> before </td>
line 856 column 37 - Warning: unescaped & or unknown entity "&id"
line 855 column 216 - Warning: missing </font> before </table>
line 857 column 17 - Warning: discarding unexpected </textarea>
line 857 column 28 - Warning: discarding unexpected </form>
line 857 column 35 - Warning: discarding unexpected </embed>
line 857 column 43 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noembed>
line 857 column 53 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noscript>
line 857 column 64 - Warning: discarding unexpected </noembed>
line 857 column 74 - Warning: discarding unexpected </embed>
line 857 column 82 - Warning: discarding unexpected </table>
line 857 column 90 - Warning: discarding unexpected </table>
line 859 column 9 - Warning: missing </font> before <table>
line 871 column 25 - Warning: discarding unexpected </font>
line 880 column 57 - Warning: discarding unexpected </font>
line 858 column 1 - Warning: missing </center>
line 120 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 125 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 125 column 93 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 141 column 19 - Warning: <td> attribute "width" has invalid value "120px"
line 141 column 98 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 148 column 43 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 140 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 148 column 244 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 42 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 42 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 159 column 85 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 85 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 159 column 128 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 128 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 159 column 171 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 171 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 159 column 214 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 214 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 159 column 257 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 257 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 159 column 300 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 300 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 159 column 343 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 343 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 159 column 386 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 386 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 159 column 429 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 429 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 159 column 472 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 472 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 159 column 515 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 159 column 515 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 161 column 33 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 164 column 37 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 178 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 178 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 178 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 178 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 179 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 189 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 199 column 1339 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 199 column 1339 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 42 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 42 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 85 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 85 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 128 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 128 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 171 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 171 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 214 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 214 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 257 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 257 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 300 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 300 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 343 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 343 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 386 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 386 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 429 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 429 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 472 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 472 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 205 column 515 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 205 column 515 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 207 column 33 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 210 column 37 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 228 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 228 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 228 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 228 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 229 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 239 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 246 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 253 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 254 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 254 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 254 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 254 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 255 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 265 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 278 column 43 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 278 column 43 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 278 column 86 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 278 column 86 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 278 column 129 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 278 column 129 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 278 column 172 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 278 column 172 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 278 column 215 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 278 column 215 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 278 column 258 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 278 column 258 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 278 column 301 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 278 column 301 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 280 column 33 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 285 column 37 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 292 column 401 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 300 column 1973 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 301 column 2357 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 302 column 2397 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 309 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 309 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 309 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 309 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 310 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 320 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 344 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 345 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 345 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 345 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 345 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 346 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 356 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 381 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 381 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 381 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 381 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 392 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 411 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 411 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 411 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 411 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 412 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 422 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 429 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 452 column 5578 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 452 column 5578 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 478 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 478 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 478 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 478 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 489 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 497 column 1576 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 497 column 1576 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 508 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 509 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 509 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 509 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 509 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 510 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 520 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 577 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 577 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 577 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 577 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 578 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 588 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 595 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 598 column 2256 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 598 column 2256 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 619 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 619 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 619 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 619 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 630 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 645 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 645 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 645 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 645 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 646 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 656 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 663 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 675 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 675 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 675 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 675 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 676 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 686 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 693 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 693 column 1155 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 693 column 1155 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 716 column 5489 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 716 column 5489 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 742 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 743 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 743 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 743 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 743 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 744 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 754 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 761 column 1184 - Warning: <font> attribute "size" has invalid value "+0,5"
line 761 column 1217 - Warning: <font> attribute "size" has invalid value "+0,5"
line 761 column 1281 - Warning: <font> attribute "size" has invalid value "+0,5"
line 761 column 1745 - Warning: <font> attribute "size" has invalid value "+0,5"
line 763 column 2205 - Warning: <font> attribute "size" has invalid value "+0,5"
line 771 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 771 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 771 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 771 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 772 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 782 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 789 column 901 - Warning: <div> anchor "xklayout" already defined
line 796 column 16 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 796 column 16 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 796 column 59 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 796 column 59 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 796 column 102 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 796 column 102 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 796 column 145 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 796 column 145 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 796 column 188 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 796 column 188 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 796 column 231 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 796 column 231 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 796 column 274 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 796 column 274 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 796 column 317 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 796 column 317 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 796 column 360 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 796 column 360 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 796 column 403 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 796 column 403 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 797 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 797 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 797 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 797 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 798 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 808 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 828 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 829 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 829 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 829 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 829 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 830 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 840 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 847 column 547 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 856 column 43 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 856 column 140 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 856 column 244 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 865 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 870 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 761 column 1202 - Warning: trimming empty <b>
line 761 column 1184 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 763 column 2205 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 850 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 169 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 194 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 215 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 244 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 270 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 290 column 47 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 325 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 327 column 1226 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
line 361 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 397 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 427 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 494 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 525 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 593 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 635 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 661 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 691 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 759 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 787 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 813 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 845 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 847 column 74 - Warning: <table> proprietary attribute "height"
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 436 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md