Jul -- The Cutting Room Floor: Regarding version differences

Hiccup
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Posted on 03-25-15 10:17:29 AM

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So what exactly does this cover, that TCRF does not?

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Posted on 03-25-15 10:39:26 AM

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From the discussion on the page, differences in gameplay / extras between versions of games.

Like the stupid, tacked on ending on the SNES port of Art of Fighting.

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Posted on 03-25-15 12:45:51 PM (last edited by ICEknight at 03-25-15 01:42:59 PM)

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What he said and, basically, those things that aren't supposed to be hidden at all.

Here's a simplified example (I'm going by memory here, so it may be inaccurate):

Sonic The Hedgehog (Mega Drive)

v.00
-No parallax in certain levels.
-Sonic gets hurt by spikes even when invincible.
-Included in:
--International cartridge release
--Sonic Compilation/Sonic 4-in-1
--3D Sonic The Hedgehog

v.01
-Parallax in those certain levels.
-Sonic gets hurt by spikes even when invincible.
-Included in:
--Japanese cartridge release

Sonic Mega Collection (Game Cube, X-Box, PlayStation 2, PC)
-Parallax in those certain levels.
-Sonic doesn't get hurt by spikes even when invincible.
-Included in:
--Sonic Mega Collection (Game Cube)
--Sonic Mega Collection Plus (X-Box, PlayStation 2, PC)
--3D Sonic The Hedgehog

3D Sonic The Hedgehog (3DS)
-Includes "v.00" and "Sonic Mega Collection" versions
-Option to (RAM) activate level select by default
-Option to (ROM) patch spin dash move

Hiccup
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Posted on 03-25-15 01:13:06 PM (last edited by Hiccup at 03-25-15 01:13:31 PM)

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Most of that stuff about Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis) seems to be on TCRF.

And the guidelines says:

"Add This Stuff
[...]
3. Differences between released versions."

"Don't Add This Stuff
[...]
5. Publisher, logo, and copyright/licensing changes between regions."

This seems to suggest that this stuff is okay.

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ICEknight
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Posted on 03-25-15 01:27:51 PM (last edited by ICEknight at 03-25-15 01:37:00 PM)

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EDIT: Disregard, see below.

Hiccup
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Posted on 03-25-15 01:33:41 PM (last edited by Hiccup at 03-25-15 01:40:25 PM)

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Or do you mean differences between the 'same game' on different platforms [e.g. Donkey Kong (Arcade) -> Donkey Kong (NES)]?

Because that isn't in the guidelines under 'Add This Stuff' or 'Don't Add This Stuff'.

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ICEknight
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Posted on 03-25-15 01:36:42 PM (last edited by ICEknight at 03-25-15 01:53:41 PM)

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There could be:

-Revision differences (between releases on the same platform)
-Conversion differences (between this game and whatever version of the original game that it was based on)

A more illustrative example:

Sonic 2 (iOS, Android)

-Version differences

--Original release (xx/xx/xxxx)
---Features xxxx as an easter egg
---Bug when yyyy happens

--xx/xx/xxxx update
---xxxx easter egg removed
---Fixed yyyy

-Regional differences
--Japanese version -> Let's imagine that it's a separate build, for this example
---"Miles" code activated by default
---Menu texts fully translated

-Conversion differences from Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive, v.01)
--Variable aspect ratio depending on current display
--Multiplayer in all levels
--Online multiplayer

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Posted on 03-25-15 02:11:18 PM

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If this stuff isn't going to be covered by TCRF, than documenting it on that wiki sounds like a good idea.

But I'm not sure about having an overlap between the two sites, that seems like a waste of time to me.

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Posted on 03-25-15 03:58:02 PM

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This new wiki would focus more on conversion stuff than actual differences between releases of a game, then?

So revisional differences (like stuff from 1.0 to 1.1) would be secondary - this is stuff that gets covered by TCRF already, at least for console and arcade games, but not as often for PC games.

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ICEknight
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Posted on 03-25-15 04:30:56 PM

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My original plans were to slowly cover all those differences (of course, citing sources everywhere) but, yeah, each contributor may focus on the kind of changes they deem more relevant.

I personally also find the additions between ports and conversions more interesting than "fixed bug X" or "menus fully translated into Y", but in the end I think it would be pretty handy to ultimately have all these kinds of differences documented in the same place.

Sik

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Posted on 03-28-15 06:11:49 PM

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I'm gonna be the useless nitpicker but you forgot the level select order when you mentioned rev00 and 01 of Sonic 1 =P (that's like the other big change aside from parallax).

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Posted on 03-29-15 04:20:17 AM

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Originally posted by ICEknight
3D Sonic The Hedgehog (3DS)
-Includes "v.00" and "Sonic Mega Collection" versions
-Option to (RAM) activate level select by default
-Option to (ROM) patch spin dash move

Nothing is ROM patched when the game is loaded.

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Posted on 03-30-15 08:29:55 PM

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I'm okay with documenting differences in ports to very different consoles (e.g. Neo-Geo -> SNES) ONLY if the port uses assets that were unused in the original version, as unused content is still the wiki's primary focus. I'm really not interested in documenting extra junk that a third party tacked on during the porting process, especially if it was never intended or approved by the original development team.

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Posted on 03-30-15 09:50:36 PM

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I don't know why we can't include it assuming the game already has any content otherwise. I mean worst case, namespaces.

For what it's worth, I've gathered a lot of people actually find the version difference documentation really useful on TCRF

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Posted on 03-30-15 10:21:56 PM

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UESCTerm 802.11 (remote override)

044 05.10.2337

ummm, I am in no way a major editor or staff or anything at TCRF, but in the couple articles I've made I have also included version/update/rerelease changes (these were articles on PC games) along with standard unused content fare

(i mean my mentality was, if we document changes from before release why not document changes after release?)

looking at bmf's post, i'm thinking i'd be okay with documenting port differences if they share the "same" original source and are intended to be the same game (like the windows port of Marathon 2, or the Sonic Gems roms, or the GC Zelda Collection), but for ports that were re-programmed, no matter how faithful (like sonic 2 '13 or OoT 3D, i think?) port differences would not be documented as they are different in both code and/or identity?

tl/dr a casual thinks that version differences should be okay but ports using different code are different games for the purposes of content change documentation

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Rachel Mae

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Posted on 03-31-15 12:44:50 AM

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Originally posted by 2Tie
tl/dr a casual thinks that version differences should be okay but ports using different code are different games for the purposes of content change documentation

Yes, exactly.

Anyway, if we really want to add a separate namespace for this stuff, whatever. I just don't think it's appropriate for the main article (actually, I think regional/revisional differences in general should be in a separate namespace).

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ICEknight
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Posted on 03-31-15 03:31:51 PM

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In any case, the other wiki will be kept open (and with content being added as soon as I have some free time) so if you really don't think that certain stuff belongs here you can always add it there if you want, rather than changing the rules around.

I guess it could free some bandwidth from TCRF's server, too. I don't know if there's many people who checks it for version differences only.

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Posted on 03-31-15 06:03:25 PM

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I'm firmly of the opinion that regional and revisional differences for games are welcome and should be included on game articles without needing any extra namespace bullshit.

I'm willing to budge on differences between major ports (e.g. SMB1 to SMB DX) but not ones that are mostly similar (e.g. SMB1 to SMB1-VC or SMB1-SMAS).

ICEknight: Good luck with your wiki! Feel free to include any relevant content from TCRF (w/ attribution). Differences in bigger ports (like SMB1/DX above) would be interesting to read about, since I know there are quite a few in that game, being mostly reprogrammed.

To be entirely honest I don't like multiple namespaces; these days I probably would've put Proto: and Prelease: as subpages (if not the main article, for small enough pages...) since their discoverability right now is abysmal. I've heard enough people who read the wiki say "I never knew there was a prototype of the first Zelda!" to want to rip my hair out.

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Posted on 03-31-15 08:32:03 PM (last edited by GoldS at 03-31-15 08:32:56 PM)

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If someone could find out how to make the Bob template insert a "Subpages"-style section after the TOC if prototype=yes or notes=yes, that'd be pretty cool. I don't know how to make that look nice without adding a description= to the bob and editing every single page, though.

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