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05-04-22 06:44:28 PM
Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Dragon View Research New poll - New thread - New reply
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Khaz
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Posted on 01-26-15 11:07:36 PM Link | Quote
So I spent a good year or so tearing Dragon View apart in the name of a glitched TAS of the game (here if interested). I found some unused content in the ROM along with some other interesting observations.

The thing I spent the most time on is the World Map in the game, which is a unique first-person-perspective engine that I at least find impressive, if a bit frustrating. They give you a map in-game made of smaller regional maps, but it doesn't cover everything. The only map previously existing was made of the in-game maps pasted together and the missing parts roughed in. I wanted a more accurate one I could count on, and also to find out if there was anything out there that nobody ever found, so I made one.

Doing so turned out to require a complete understanding of how the map is constructed from ROM (not to mention some serious Excel macros that took over five hours just to execute), so I then went ahead and wrote a FAQ about it too. Mentioned in there are a few things I found along the way, specifically some unused scenery in the game:

http://www.pictureshack.us/images/51543_BadselStuff.png
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/59549_SnowfieldRocks.png
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/33165_Skullsmaybe.png

I got these screenshots using a romhack that replaced segments of the world map with a grid of all 256 possible object numbers. This caused a lot of crashing as well as some strange effects, like something with broken tree graphics that seemed to prevent you from facing toward it (before crashing). Generally, the list seemed to be mostly the same repeating set of 10 or so objects in each region, with a bunch of really broken ones in the higher numbers.

Anyways, I found four objects total that don't appear in the actual game - the plants and green (grass/stump?) in the first picture, the greenish rocks in the second, and what I think are glowing skulls in the last one. The only one of these that I saw scale with distance was the plant to the left of the first picture - you can see one close and one far away in the screenshot. The other three remained the same.

It occurs to me now that I have more knowledge that there may be more unused tiles hidden in VRAM that weren't actually coded into the game, and that should be looked into. During various other crashes, I've repeatedly seen one other tile that IS in the ROM of what appears to be some kind of face (a very basic blocky 8x8 pixel monochrome kind of face). If there is a way to directly view VRAM in an emulator in a graphical format, that would be awesome and I'd love if someone could point me to it.

Finally on the subject of the map, I noticed a few scenery objects on the map that are normally invisible in the game. You can see them just to the left of the Chest Game in the Snowfield - if you zoom right in you'll see they're green dots like the trees in other regions. The map tile they're on is not re-used anywhere else on the map though, so why they are programmed in is beyond me.

Moving on: The other major exploration I did was into the list of interior rooms in the game. I made a FAQ about that too, with a complete list of what I found. There are many unused rooms in the game, but most of them are the same exact copy of an empty Ice Fortress room. There are a few unique ones though, you can watch me explore them all here. In summary: One very strange very deliberate-seeming wide room appearing like Sektra Temple, two fully functional but empty caves consisting of several rooms and an exit each, and finally two TOTALLY BLANK rooms connected together, with an exit.

Finally some more trivial things:

-They made at least one mistake in the ROM: The table of angles for the world map has an error on Angle $E6. $E0 is, as expected, 45 degrees between East ($C0) and South ($00). As your angle increases toward South the X component starts to decrease, but at angle E6 it's suddenly 6 and 6 again - back to 45 degrees. You face the correct direction in-game but you can see visually how you slide sideways along the perfect diagonal when you try to walk.

-There's a well-hidden sound effect when you reveal the path to Ortah Temple, you can hear it in this video. The odds of you hearing it are extremely low, since it's normally covered up by the long Horn melody. To hear it you have to play the horn facing almost completely the other direction, so that you slowly turn around first and the horn song finishes before it starts. This suggests to me that the "Score" was a late addition to the game, and that they originally intended for the regular (much shorter) horn noise to unlock the path.

-The path to Ortah is itself made of water. You can see water on the horizon as you're walking toward it, which will mysteriously disappear when you get close (which could actually be considered a mirage, and thus a feature, if you're optimistic). The path actually uses the same object number as water, so it renders properly from a distance. When you get close, some special rule is engaged that shows water as either nothing before playing the song, or the path after.

-You can overflow your height indoors. To do so you have to use the menu to cancel your taking-damage animation after taking damage in the air, which lets you jump again and gives you a theoretically infinite number of jumps so long as something is hitting you. I think you have to do a sword technique in air to actually overflow your height though, I think it blocks you during a regular jump.

-Oh yeah. And one thing that definitely bears mentioning is the massive game-breaking bug that freaked me out as a kid and is the subject of my entire TAS. When you kill Piercia in the Storehouse, it does a special turning-grey animation that never happens again (to my knowledge), and it writes a $7F to a particular memory location, which is then cleared to a $00 next time you save and reload. That address is accessed again right as you trigger the Dragon Lords to appear for the first time in Ortah, and it's ASSUMED to be zero. When the $7F is there the program derails completely and what happens next is essentially completely unpredictable - 99% of the time it simply crashes but occasionally it will warp you straight to the ending. This was previously thought to be an emulator-only glitch but has been confirmed on console, and it will happen any time you play from Piercia to Ortah without saving and reloading.

SO.

I'm looking to make a page about it on TCRF wiki. I'd appreciate some input on what things belong there and what things don't, for example. I'll answer any questions anyone has.
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Posted on 01-26-15 11:36:09 PM (last edited by Foxhack at 01-26-15 11:36:38 PM) Link | Quote
There's a program called vSNES that lets you load a ZSNES savestate and look at the stuff in VRAM. Maybe try that?

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Khaz
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Posted on 01-27-15 02:59:01 AM Link | Quote
Finally figured out that vSNES doesn't work with (at least my version of) Snes9x despite saying it does. I can deal with zSNES. Thank you for the recommendation, this program is actually exactly what I've been looking for. I'll do some more digging tomorrow.

In the meantime, this is the face I was talking about, in the top right:



I also don't recognize that sign in the bottom left. Can anyone translate it?
Khaz
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Posted on 01-27-15 11:36:02 PM Link | Quote
I did some more looking through the ROM and VRAM in various places today, and I didn't find much new. Notably I did NOT find the unused scenery that I posted originally in VRAM. I think it may only get loaded when one of the map tiles in memory contains it, which means I'd have to break out my crashy romhack in zSNES and... somehow get there. (I miss my hex editor so much.)

This is interesting though:

I'm 99% sure that's a mouse along the bottom left, and I can't recall ever seeing a mouse in the game normally. It's been a long time since I really played it 100%-like and went everywhere so I may be forgetting something. I keep getting a feeling like it's from some cutscene, but then I think I'm just being reminded of Prince of Persia.
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Posted on 01-28-15 03:10:26 AM (last edited by Khaz at 01-28-15 03:11:30 AM) Link | Quote
Found some more stuff in the ROM!


While in retrospect I don't think that sign I mentioned earlier is a foreign language (the more I look at it the more it just looks like "ANAL"), I'm pretty certain this bit CAN be translated from japanese.


This is a really strange one. I am certain I've seen the crying girl in the game somewhere before, but the bit in the middle of what seems to be her being disintigrated and/or decapitated is totally new to me.


I don't think those two little arrows are used in the game. The menu icon for the arrows is larger and diagonal and they're much bigger yet when you actually shoot them.


Some kind of person, looks more like the style of the original Drakkhen? I can't seem to piece him back together, he's missing an upper body and maybe some legs too.

And finally, something really big and awesome that I'm pretty certain is not in the game even slightly:

It's a monkey! With lots of animation that looks like it would be an unbelievable pain to manually sort out. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to either reassemble this efficiently, or track down whatever code may potentially exist to put him together?
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Posted on 01-28-15 01:20:03 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Khaz
If there is a way to directly view VRAM in an emulator in a graphical format, that would be awesome and I'd love if someone could point me to it.


It lacks a lot of ZSNES/SNES9x features and you'll have to be quick with the pause key (I can't remember if there is a frame advance), but no$sns has real-time VRAM viewing.

BSNES added a VRAM viewer to the debugging functions at some point , and I assume the successor project higan features it as well.

I know the Mednafen debugger has a graphics viewer, but I'm not sure if the debug functions support SNES. It's kind of a pain to use compared to the above, even with one of the frontends.
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Posted on 01-28-15 02:00:58 PM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 01-28-15 02:06:01 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Khaz
Found some more stuff in the ROM!


While in retrospect I don't think that sign I mentioned earlier is a foreign language (the more I look at it the more it just looks like "ANAL"), I'm pretty certain this bit CAN be translated from japanese.


Indeed, it can. アイテム転送 translates to "Item Transfer". As for that sign, I'd say it's a fictional alphabet based loosely on a real runic alphabet. Finally, as for that monkey, it looks quite a bit like Abu from Disney's (TM) Aladdin (note the hairstyle, the hat, and the vest). It could just be me though.


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Posted on 01-28-15 04:31:44 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Khaz
It's a monkey! With lots of animation that looks like it would be an unbelievable pain to manually sort out. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to either reassemble this efficiently, or track down whatever code may potentially exist to put him together?
That's not just any monkey, that's Abu from Aladdin for the SNES!
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Posted on 01-28-15 06:11:41 PM Link | Quote
........ what?

How in the hell did Abu end up in the game?

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Posted on 01-28-15 08:06:48 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Foxhack
........ what?

How in the hell did Abu end up in the game?

It's possible the EPROM used to burn the final game onto once had Aladdin on the SNES. A dump of the Simon Wai Sonic 2 beta had stuff from Chiki Chiki Boys on the MD/Genesis. Curious to know where it was found within the game. Specific hex addresses would be nice.

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Khaz
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Posted on 01-28-15 09:57:04 PM (last edited by Khaz at 01-28-15 10:01:12 PM) Link | Quote
Aha, so it is him! I suspected as much.

I'd still love to assemble what's in Dragon View's ROM though, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some sprites here that don't appear in the finished version of Aladdin. For example I don't see one of him scratching his head/getting an idea on the sprite sheet I found online, like there appears to be about halfway down mine on the left there. It probably just wasn't on the sheet I found, but I've never played Aladdin so I don't really know.

Anyway, after messing around some more in Bizhawk (what I've been using), I find out it does have a "Graphics Debugger" that is extremely useful, if a bit awkward to use compared to vSNES. At least this way I have access to my saved states and tools and I don't have to get into PAR codes just to travel out of bounds. (Sorry for asking before I looked, I just thought it didn't have one for some reason.)

I tried visiting some of the non-accessible rooms and watching VRAM, and the only thing I learned is that when entering that TOTALLY BLANK set of rooms I mentioned in my first post, it loads the standard Town tileset (the one for Rysis and Hujia at least). Entering it from town doesn't do anything productive though.

I also found one more thing while searching for all the ROM addresses again:

Took a shot at putting it together but didn't get far:

My first thought was it's one of those balls that the fireball-shooting dragon-statues stand on, but those don't seem to look the same:

It looks really really reeeeally familiar but I can't decide whether it's in the game or it's toad's head or what.

ROM addresses where I found everything (according to vSNES):
-Drakkhen 1 style guy: 03FD20
-Strange Ball / Mushroom: 04FCE0
-Abu: 053B60
-Crying/Falling?/Exploding? Girl: 083720
-Mouse: 16D600
-Japanese "Item Transfer": 187980
-Tiny arrows: 1DE280

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I forget where I found the tiny gibberish sign and the one-tile-face in ROM, but they're part of the tileset that seems to be loaded in every town.
Khaz
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Posted on 01-28-15 11:10:37 PM (last edited by Khaz at 01-28-15 11:10:51 PM) Link | Quote
Just compared the Aladdin ROM to Dragon View - Abu lines up in exactly the same address.
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Posted on 01-30-15 02:17:32 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Khaz
Finally figured out that vSNES doesn't work with (at least my version of) Snes9x despite saying it does. I can deal with zSNES. Thank you for the recommendation, this program is actually exactly what I've been looking for. I'll do some more digging tomorrow.

In the meantime, this is the face I was talking about, in the top right:



I also don't recognize that sign in the bottom left. Can anyone translate it?




Pretty sure it's ANAK, like in Drakkhen.

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Khaz
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Posted on 01-30-15 03:52:12 AM Link | Quote
Huh, that would explain it! Thank you for that.

I've been keeping an eye out for the sign in game and I haven't seen a trace of it yet. I do feel like I've seen it before.
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Posted on 02-02-15 08:25:59 AM (last edited by ICEknight at 02-02-15 08:26:17 AM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by divingkataetheweirdo
Originally posted by Foxhack
........ what?

How in the hell did Abu end up in the game?

It's possible the EPROM used to burn the final game onto once had Aladdin on the SNES. A dump of the Simon Wai Sonic 2 beta had stuff from Chiki Chiki Boys on the MD/Genesis.

But that's because it was a prototype, I don't think there's any documented SNES final games with remnants of another company's game like this.
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Posted on 02-02-15 02:20:36 PM Link | Quote
I can think of two off the top of my head (just because I found them myself), and these are far from the only examples:

https://tcrf.net/Tintin_in_Tibet_(SNES)
https://tcrf.net/Shin_Megami_Tensei_if...

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Posted on 02-02-15 02:40:01 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by devin
I can think of two off the top of my head (just because I found them myself), and these are far from the only examples:

https://tcrf.net/Tintin_in_Tibet_(SNES)
https://tcrf.net/Shin_Megami_Tensei_if...

Oh, in that case it's a shame that there's no category for them in the wiki...
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Posted on 02-06-15 08:30:22 PM Link | Quote
Plok! also has a few graphics from Bubsy that I need to get around to uploading at some point.

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Posted on 02-07-15 12:43:36 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by ICEknight
Originally posted by devin
I can think of two off the top of my head (just because I found them myself), and these are far from the only examples:

https://tcrf.net/Tintin_in_Tibet_(SNES)
https://tcrf.net/Shin_Megami_Tensei_if...

Oh, in that case it's a shame that there's no category for them in the wiki...

Sounds like one should be made. Hint.



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Posted on 02-09-15 08:53:47 AM Link | Quote


Only if we get to use this as the bob icon.

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