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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Star Fox Adventures E3 2002 prototype (5/17/02) New poll - New thread - New reply
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2Tie

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Posted on 08-07-14 11:43:35 PM Link | Quote

UESCTerm 802.11 (remote override)
044 05.10.2337
Foxtribe: i don't have the time at the moment to go and check, but I've listened through it all a couple times and I do not remember it. Should be double-checked, though.

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gonetogo
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Posted on 08-08-14 09:48:06 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by foxtribe
@gonetogo: Thanks for the screenshot, that is so odd! That is indeed the beta logo/design, but I have no idea why it would be on his head. Most likely a placeholder


The beta logo appears on different occasions in the game. You can also find it on some boxes and the hat of General Pepper:




So why does Tricky have it? At the end of Starfox Adventures when Fox is about to leave Tricky with his dad in the Walled City, Fox makes Tricky a member of the Starfox team and puts that emblem on Tricky's forehead. I just didn't remember that it was even visible on Tricky's in-game model.
2Tie

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Posted on 08-08-14 04:24:27 PM Link | Quote

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044 05.10.2337
Yeah, Fox pulls out an emblem and places it on tricky's forehead, and the camera shot changes while the Tricky model most likely switches the emblem on. Is it always on tricky's head in this version of the game?

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ICEknight
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Posted on 08-08-14 06:46:49 PM Link | Quote
I'd say it's entirely possible that he was at one point supposed to get the emblem as soon as he joined Fox... But we can't know for sure until somebody asks. =|
Celice
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Posted on 08-09-14 01:40:42 AM Link | Quote
We don't really have much stuff to go on regarding why the emblem then and why the emblem now, making it mostly conjecture. Plots get revised, even if the character stays the same.
gonetogo
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Posted on 08-09-14 10:50:09 AM Link | Quote
The emblem thing on Tricky is likely only due to the hacking. In all previous versions of the game, Tricky does not have the emblem. Same holds true for the cutscenes in this prototype - there's no emblem.
KCat
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Posted on 08-17-14 06:55:16 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by gilgamesh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ELkP3pL_g

This video piqued my curiosity, mentioning Objects.BIN and how you can replace objects by copying the data after the name for some of the entries. So I had a look in OBJECTS.tab and OBJECTS.bin.

I've found that each object is an entry in the tab file, which makes sense enough. I'm surprised his method of replacing objects works at all though, considering there seems to be about 88 bytes of data from the start of the entry to the name. A bit more interesting is that the third entry in the OBJECTS archive (offset 0x0180 to 0x0980 in the .bin) is named "Sabre", and the fourth entry in the OBJECTS archive (offset 0x0980 to 0x11C0 in the .bin) is named "Krystal". They're also the two largest entries, being 2048 and 2112 bytes respectively, while all the rest are less than 1000 bytes. Unfortunately I'm having trouble working out the format of these objects, along with what data they actually contain (very unlikely to contain any mesh data, though it likely will have a(n indirect) reference to the actual model).

P.S. I tried overwriting Krystal's objects.bin data with Sabre's directly in the ISO, but it didn't seem to have any effect at all on Krystal's model during the Galleon battle or when walking around on board. But it did have an effect on the way the staff connected to her body, and really messed up the way her body pivots during cutscenes.
KCat
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Posted on 08-17-14 08:11:49 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by gilgamesh
Kcat can you show your modification by a video?

Unfortunately, no. The game itself plays excruciatingly slow, and the only thing I could try capturing Dolphin with would just murder performance even more. All that really happens though is that her staff (and the barrels you pick up in Krazoa Palace), attach to her stomach instead of her hand. It's like the game can't find the right skeleton bone to attach the object to, so it just defaults to the one in her stomach. The cutscene pivoting is a little harder to explain, but it's possibly the same issue, the game not being able to find the right bones to pivot.

The SfAdv_Ripper_0.4.1 program extracts files to Maya formats. Someone who has the Maya software could he show us what it can display?

http://www.starfox-online.net/topic/12160-adventures-model-ripper-update-v041/

That looks interesting. I don't have Maya, but here's hoping they'll release the source soon so we can see how to better read the models.

In other news, I've had a little success in figuring out the object format. Each object entry starts with two 32-bit floats. The first seems to be 0 for a number of objects, although Sabre and Krystal have 35 (3.5e+1, 0x420C0000), and Tricky has 16.5 (1.65e+1, 0x41840000). This might be a movement speed value, or perhaps a collision height/radius, but that's just a wild guess. The second value tends to be 1 (0x3F800000), although fox_shield has 6 (0x40C00000). This might be a scale, but again, a wild guess.

The exciting bit: after those two is an offset, always(?) 0x000000A0, which contains a 32-bit value that is an index into the MODELS archive! I was able to successfully replace the shield model used when Fox activates the staff's shield by editing just that one value in the fox_shield object. 160 bytes after the start of the entry (or 72 bytes after the start of the name) is the index value 0x0000007E, or 126, which corresponds to this model. I can change just that value to 0x0000019A, or 425, which corresponds to this model, and that is then what I see in-game when using the shield (although it is textured, translucent, and animating).

Oddly, Sabre and Krystal's object definitions both contain index value 1252 (0x000004E4) for their model, which doesn't seem to be a valid entry in the MODELS archive (1253 is, but my model viewer can't decode it properly). Similarly, Tricky has index 3, which also doesn't seem to be a valid entry. Maybe there's another lookup I'm supposed to go through, and 126 and 425 just happen to be usable as-is.
2Tie

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Posted on 08-17-14 10:05:43 PM Link | Quote

UESCTerm 802.11 (remote override)
044 05.10.2337
yes, that shield.

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Treevis121

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Posted on 08-17-14 11:49:19 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by KCat
The game itself plays excruciatingly slow, and...


The version of dolphin I recently switched to, 4.0-1601, runs it almost perfectly, both the kiosk and the retail version. The only thing about it is if the framerate is set at 60 it won't work, I'd have to set it at 70fps. Just in case if it'll work for you, too, here's how I have my Game-Specific Settings at:

Enable Dual Core
Enable Idle Skipping
VBeam Speed Hack
Speed up Disc Transfer Rate
Enable Block Merging
DSP HLE emulation (fast)

I left everything else unchecked, including "Enable Bounding Box Calculation" and "Custom Projection Hack". My actual Basic Settings is:

Enable Dual Core (speedup)
Enable Idle Skipping (speedup)
Enable Cheats
Framelimit: 70

I hope this information helps.
KCat
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Posted on 08-18-14 08:21:52 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Treevis121
The version of dolphin I recently switched to, 4.0-1601, runs it almost perfectly, both the kiosk and the retail version.

I think it's just my CPU not being very good for Gamecube emulation, more than anything (AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+). It can't run Metroid Prime or Twilight Princess at full speed, either.

Originally posted by KCat
Oddly, Sabre and Krystal's object definitions both contain index value 1252 (0x000004E4) for their model, which doesn't seem to be a valid entry in the MODELS archive (1253 is, but my model viewer can't decode it properly). Similarly, Tricky has index 3, which also doesn't seem to be a valid entry. Maybe there's another lookup I'm supposed to go through, and 126 and 425 just happen to be usable as-is.

As an update, I actually found a models archive with a valid index 1252, within the animtest and warlock maps. As well, a valid index 3 (for Tricky) is found in maps icemountain, dfptop, mmpass, swaphol, capeclaw, dragrock, wallcity, darkicemines, darkicemines2, frontend, swapcircle, nwastes, insidegal, volcano, and lightfoot. As expected, though, my model viewer can't load those models properly since it doesn't know how to get the proper vertex attributes, texture indices, or any of that.

As an aside, maybe I'm missing it if it's already been discussed here, but does anyone know a way to rebuild a gcm after extracting the files with Dolphin? I'm interested in trying to swap some of the map directories around, to see if the game will load them (e.g. switch icemountain and desert, and selecting to start Ice Mountain, or maybe swaphol with swapcircle, and starting at ThornTail Hollow).
einstein95
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Posted on 08-18-14 12:56:13 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by KCat
As an aside, maybe I'm missing it if it's already been discussed here, but does anyone know a way to rebuild a gcm after extracting the files with Dolphin?


You can extract and rebuild GC ISOs with GCRebuilder. (You cant rebuild Dolphin-extracted ISOs though, so you have to extract the files again using this tool)

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KCat
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Posted on 08-18-14 07:59:24 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by einstein95
You can extract and rebuild GC ISOs with GCRebuilder. (You cant rebuild Dolphin-extracted ISOs though, so you have to extract the files again using this tool)

I seem to have trouble rebuilding a modified ISO. :/ I extract the gcm, then try to swap a couple of the directories, then gcrebuilder refuses to load the root directory because files are missing (e.g. the swaphol/mod13.* files no longer exists, since it was moved to swapcircle/, and similarly for the swapcircle/mod22.* files). I can copy them back and forth so the old files it expects to be there exist, but it won't include the files that are new to the directory, and I can't be sure it's writing the modified files correctly. Subsequently, Dolphin crashes when loading the main menu. I don't see how to rename directories in gcrebuilder's ui, either. Am I missing something, or is it really not possible to remove and add files?
KartMario
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Posted on 08-19-14 02:19:33 AM Link | Quote
"Do not use 'game.toc'"
Treevis121

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Posted on 10-04-14 06:12:52 AM (last edited by Treevis121 at 10-12-14 12:24:22 AM) Link | Quote
Sorry this isn't any sort of breakthrough, but I've been trying to run the E3 version with the gcm's files extracted. It's strange running it like that 'cause there are a couple of things different...

- The game ID is shown as 00000000 (what sets the game ID to GSAJ01 when compiled?)
- At the title screen, you can't press A to navigate into any of the menus (why?)
- Changing some files in the game (for example, swap out gamefront's contents with swaphol) yield interesting results:

I must delve deeper...

Edit: Say, I could've sworn I've seen these somewhere else...Pardon Slippy for being incredibly in the way.




foxtribe
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Posted on 10-15-14 08:32:55 AM Link | Quote
I recognize all but the last one! They've already been discovered by this guy http://dinosaur-planet-to-sfa.tumblr.com/
http://dinosaur-planet-to-sfa.tumblr.com/post/85471067682/a-rusted-hammer-its-not-really-sure-where-it#notes
http://dinosaur-planet-to-sfa.tumblr.com/post/85468982747/a-golden-crystal-this-crystal-is-a-singular#notes
http://dinosaur-planet-to-sfa.tumblr.com/post/85468365267/a-group-of-five-violet-crystals-they-like-the#notes
http://dinosaur-planet-to-sfa.tumblr.com/post/85468025607/a-set-of-green-crystals-on-a-pedestal-like-holder#notes

still neat though.
Treevis121

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Posted on 10-16-14 03:13:02 AM (last edited by Treevis121 at 10-29-14 09:25:21 PM) Link | Quote
I knew I had seen those somewhere...

As far as the root/MODELS.BIN goes, I haven't found any model that screams Dinosaur Planet. I have found several possible debugging assets, though:

- Several blue cubes, each one with different text on them, "LEV CTRL," "TEX SCRL," "RE START POINT," "OVER RIDE"
- White cube with text saying "TRIG AREA"
- Blue cylinder with text saying "MIDI FADE"
- Camera / spotlight model
- Arrow pointer made up of 5 colors

I've been trying to consolidate some of this here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-qZtji2gYp5_TfJhnX56Yt9fOoOA0LJ9zjd3IQsp4KE/edit?usp=sharing There's still a lot to add, like pictures for each model.

... I still can't press the A button... :'(

EDIT: I can now press the A button! There was a single file, BIN, that I had to remove. Why, though? There wasn't anything in it...
Jarofmayo
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Posted on 11-04-14 02:13:37 PM Link | Quote
Have you tried getting any other models to appear by Slippy?, or are those the only ones you could get?
Treevis121

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Posted on 11-04-14 11:27:10 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Jarofmayo
Have you tried getting any other models to appear by Slippy?, or are those the only ones you could get?

I can only mess with ZLB-compressed files, it seems. If I tried using something under LZO compression, it'd just crash the game. If there was a way to re-compress LZO files as ZLB then maybe one would be able to view their contents, but I don't have any programming skills to do something like that.
SubDrag
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Posted on 11-16-14 01:27:52 AM Link | Quote
TRACKS.BIN is a zlib compressed file which is actually Dragon Forest geometry from DKR (but updated to a slightly different format)...very strange indeed. I can't find any more files like this, so it may be the only backgrounds leftover, and some sort of test map when was Dinosaur Planet engine similar to DKR? I don't know if there was a texture rip that used these indexes, but this map uses:

0070
006F
0002
0021
000B
0059
0018
0001
0008
0017
000A
001A
008F
0022
007A
0079
00AF
0010
0011
001E
001D
000D
004A
005A
000F
005B
007B
005D
005C
008E
00AE
006D
0015
0071
000E
00AA
0077
000C
006C
0076
0019
006B
0072
0049
0016
0014

I don't know if anyone has ripped images that have DKR images leftover...but if so could see if those match.


Maybe someone can ask Phil Tossell why it's here?
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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - Star Fox Adventures E3 2002 prototype (5/17/02) New poll - New thread - New reply


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