Jul -- General Chat: The End of America.

Lyskar
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Posted on 12-08-07 02:38:40 AM

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12-07-07 08:38:40pm 862 posts 157 days
If they pass it, it can always be overturned by the Supreme Court, which would then proceed to thwack it over the head with the US Constitution. Either way, if you think this is bad, check out some of the past Alien and Sedition acts, etc. etc. We aren't a fascist state now, and I find it unlikely it'll succeed now either. As long as the election proceeds as planned, ol' Bush and his crazy anti-terrorism bent will be history... and I can expect this silly piece of paper to go out of existence not long after. Assuming it's passed or nto slain by 'compromise-ola'. ____________________
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains: round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare, The lone and level sands stretch far away. -Shelley

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Posted on 12-08-07 03:04:58 AM

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That...

...must be...

...one of...

...the stupidest bills...

...ever created.

If this bill gets passed, I will be glad that I live in Mexico, that way I could diss the Bush administration without the US beiung able to do anything. I just hope that the Supreme Court will think about the US Constitution and prevent the bill from being passed as law. You can tell that the Bush Administration is getting mad over the fact that the people kepp on putting down Bush as a stupid idiot for going on a war with Iraq.

Just plain retarded.

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Posted on 12-08-07 03:06:35 AM

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All of you will be arrested for posting in this thread when this bill gets passed.

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[Posted by DSMagnum]

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Posted on 12-08-07 03:16:07 AM (last edited by The Red Snifit at 12-08-07 12:17 AM)

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If this happens, I'll lose all respect for America and move to Canada.
Really, this basically kills what America was about in the first place: Freedom. D:

Originally posted by DSMagnum
All of you will be arrested for posting in this thread when this bill gets passed.

Another reason to not give away your identity on the internet.

Lyskar
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Posted on 12-08-07 03:17:30 AM

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12-07-07 09:17:30pm 863 posts 157 days
If this bill gets passed, they're going to have a hard time arresting all the people for things enshrined in the Constitution. That is, if they use it the way it is claimed there. However, I've discovered many absolutely frightening bills already have been passed, with equal or even superior misuse abilities to this one. Guess why they haven't been abused? The media, the American people in general create a tremendous outcry at anything considered to be against the spirit of the nation. This is why stuff like Enron came toppling down. How slavery and subsequent Jim Crow laws eventually died. I believe this to be alarmist. Pass or no pass, it won't ultimately magically turn us into a fascist country. Why? The people don't want that. In fact, they've shown utter discontent with how things are now. If they began cracking down as described here, government would break down entirely. I propose that the bill is merely some red tape to allow them to better catch terrorists. It is powerful... and thus easily abusable... but somehow I doubt the Supreme Court would allow it to be used for these wide-ranging abuses people like to claim it can have. Instead, I believe anti-American or anti-Bush people are using it as an excuse to attack the government. I understand why, but I think it's the wrong tact. (Well, sure. I'm all for attacking the bill itself. But announcing the death of America due to one bill is, frankly, absurd. Unless that bill, of course, said 'The Constitution is Null and Void' in shiny letters.) Ultimately, the country fluctuates between low and high with rights and laws like this. Given a new era, this legislation will die of disuse. And given this era, their ability to use it will probably be crippled by media and other attacks on it, plus the inevitable calls for it to be dismantled (See: 'Patriot' Act.) ____________________
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Rena
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Posted on 12-08-07 03:21:31 AM (last edited by HyperHacker at 12-08-07 12:21 AM)

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Jul - Post #1757 - 12-07-07 10:21:31pm

If this doesn't deserve a big fat

, I don't know what does.

Originally posted by DSMagnum
All of you will be arrested for posting in this thread when this bill gets passed.

Oooooohhhh Caaaaanadaaaaaa...

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Lyskar
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Posted on 12-08-07 03:38:52 AM

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12-07-07 09:38:52pm 864 posts 157 days
Here we go. A non-hysterical reaction. Originally posted by "Ars Technica" Similar claims are made in a lengthy piece at The Indypendent, and a follow-up piece on blogosphere reaction shows just how hyped-up the rhetoric here has become ("Stop S. 1959 or lose Internet free speech," one poster wrote). Such rhetoric seems more than a bit over the top, since the commission doesn't have the power to make laws or to rewrite the Constitution. Still, if the issue concerns you, now would be an excellent time to contact your senator. This bill is dumb, but why haven't our rights already been destroyed? I have yet to be heckled by any government agents despite the fact my views conflict with this administration's. (Primarily, I preferred the old Clinton days, or, heck, most of the previous presidents.) There will always be some example of rights abuse, and I agree that things get a bit touchy here. But screaming bloody murder and announcing the end of America won't make it go away. :p ____________________
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains: round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare, The lone and level sands stretch far away. -Shelley

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Posted on 12-08-07 03:40:20 AM

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Originally posted by The Red Snifit
Originally posted by DSMagnum
All of you will be arrested for posting in this thread when this bill gets passed.

Another reason to not give away your identity on the internet.

The government can track you by your IP. You don't need to give away your identity. They already have it.

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[Posted by DSMagnum]

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Posted on 12-08-07 04:06:37 AM

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Who needs fingerprints these days? Just look up my IP address.

Oh, crap. I posted from the library.

Drag
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Posted on 12-08-07 04:22:59 AM

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Drag's Post #467

I really don't think this bill is going to make it.

Then again, they *did* pass a bill making 'illegal images' (child pornography) on the internet an arrestable offense.

Don't worry, I think once elections come around, this stuff won't be a problem.

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Lyskar
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Posted on 12-08-07 04:24:40 AM

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12-07-07 10:24:40pm 865 posts 157 days
Of course, if you're a US citizen, you'd think they'd have your identity already anyway. Duh. Plus proxies can make your web identity much harder to track. I see shades of Chicken Little. :p ____________________
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains: round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare, The lone and level sands stretch far away. -Shelley

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Posted on 12-08-07 04:38:00 AM

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While I agree that this bill is crap, I think some people are blowing it waaaaaaay out of proportion (as always). Similarly awful legislation has come and gone. This isn't going to be the "OMG END OF AMERICA!!!!!1" (though if it somehow turns out to be true, then the American people are far, far more helpless and stupid than I thought).

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Stigandr
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Posted on 12-08-07 04:52:03 AM

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You people need to listen to Metal_Man88 more.

I never thought I'd say that about someone with underscores and numbers in their username, but there it is.

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Lyskar
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Posted on 12-08-07 05:07:12 AM

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12-07-07 11:07:12pm 867 posts 157 days
Well, to my credit, I chose to keep the name long after underscores and numbers weren't cool. But, yeah, I've seen enough of these and read enough history to know that, while it sucks, it isn't the end of the world. Yet. :p ____________________
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains: round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare, The lone and level sands stretch far away. -Shelley

Drag
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Posted on 12-08-07 05:08:00 AM (last edited by Drag at 12-08-07 02:08 AM)

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Drag's Post #468

Building on my previous post, I personally think that someone will catch this before it goes into effect, that it goes against the first amendment.

Also, America without free speech just can't happen. Seriously, it physically cannot happen, it'd be like dividing by zero, it's impossible. If it ever happened, it'd be because the laws of physics skewed, and the Earth would collapse on itself anyway.

However, even if this bill gets passed, someone will realize the glaring error with it.

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Posted on 12-08-07 06:12:09 AM

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I'm not so sure they'll catch the problems before it goes into effect. Just look at the NSL (National Security Letter) provisions of the PATRIOT Act... which are completely absurd, yet still in effect if I'm not mistaken.

Eon

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Posted on 12-08-07 06:12:22 AM

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	I preferred the previous administration. Agents obviously haven't visited me or anything... The thought of what seems to be happening is sick. While I do think the constitution is outdated, overly vague in places, and needs rewriting, there likely isn't a single person left on this globe trustworthy enough to achieve that. Not now that things like drugs and the unhealthier forms of "mods" are becoming ingrained into popular culture itself. From what I can tell, an average person of either gender under about 25 can't even get a actual date unless you at least sympathize with tobacco. ____________________

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Posted on 12-08-07 12:34:26 PM

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	Soooooooo, this basically means, that saying "Bush sucks." gets you into jail? ...good that I don't live in America... ____________________ A for ale! B for beer! C for cans of beer!

TheGreatGuy
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Posted on 12-08-07 01:10:44 PM (last edited by TheGreatGuy at 12-08-07 10:54 AM)

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Originally posted by Eon
While I do think the constitution is outdated, overly vague in places, and needs rewriting, there likely isn't a single person left on this globe trustworthy enough to achieve that.

While this is slightly off topic, I must say I agree absolutely and completely with this statement, also, it's a damn good thing that the anti-feds back during the ratification got the constitution-writers to add the bill of rights, otherwise, we would be fucked. Aside, this bill does worry me, but still, I must also partially agree with MetalMan, in that the supreme court would hopefully shoot this down with the first amendment, if it passes. Also, despite the fact I despise Bush, I think he's a little too idealistic to approve of this, unless his stupid little war has totally blinded him. Also, this is interesting, she takes a long time to get to the point though.

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