Jul -- The Cutting Room Floor: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

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Rena
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Posted on 06-13-12 04:29:05 AM

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Post #4829 · Wed 120613 002905

For me, Pokémon G/S. We got a debug version of the one Pokémon game I didn't enjoy, but not the one just before it. Go figure...

I have a suspicion that Nintendo uses (or at least once used) homebrewed compilers that don't optimize very well. Of course a lot of debugging code does get stripped from the final builds (look how few debug functions made it from the debug build of OoT to the final), but it depends how they're implemented whether the compiler can remove them or not.

A lot of the debug functions are probably like:

#if DEBUG

doDebugStuff();

#endif

so by just compiling a non-debug version, that code is completely removed. But, a lot of games also have code like:
if(debug_enabled) doDebugStuff();
In that case, debug_enabled is a variable in RAM, and the code gets left in even though the code that enables it is removed. You can see this in Mario Kart 64 and Ocarina of Time; there are flags in RAM that enable debug options. Unless their compiler has gotten a lot more clever lately, this kind of debug code usually remains in the final build.

Then there are cases where the code is there, but branched over, and you have to patch it to enable it again. I'm not sure how that gets left in by any sane compiler, but that's partly where my theory about a homebrewed compiler comes from... (obviously this also is common in NES/SNES/GB games, but those were coded in assembly, so the code only gets removed if the programmer removes it themselves.) I know at least compiler warnings (if there even were any) were ignored in Mario 64, so who knows, maybe they didn't even optimize...

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Posted on 06-13-12 11:14:23 AM

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I'm not familiar with the N64, but the GC, Wii and DS SDKs all use Metrowerks CodeWarrior for compiling. (I think the GBA SDK also does, but don't quote me on that.)

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divingkataetheweirdo

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Posted on 06-13-12 08:01:24 PM (last edited by divingkataetheweirdo at 06-17-12 06:22:08 PM)

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The translation in progress with some of my input

Obviously not finished, but just to see how people think of it

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Posted on 06-13-12 09:21:15 PM

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Originally posted by Rena
I'm not sure how that gets left in by any sane compiler, but that's partly where my theory about a homebrewed compiler comes from...

Either that, or GCC 2.7 is really bad at optimizing MIPS.

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GlitterBerri

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Posted on 06-19-12 04:10:04 PM

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Originally posted by divingkataetheweirdo
The translation in progress with some of my input

Obviously not finished, but just to see how people think of it

Thanks for continuing to work on this, divingkatae! Are your notes the ones in (brackets)? Or is that just part of the translation? I haven't looked at this in too long and can't remember what was originally here.

And a belated thank you to everyone who tried to explain debug symbols to me.

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divingkataetheweirdo

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Posted on 06-19-12 04:12:15 PM

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Originally posted by GlitterBerri
Originally posted by divingkataetheweirdo
The translation in progress with some of my input

Obviously not finished, but just to see how people think of it

Thanks for continuing to work on this, divingkatae! Are your notes the ones in (brackets)? Or is that just part of the translation? I haven't looked at this in too long and can't remember what was originally here.

And a belated thank you to everyone who tried to explain debug symbols to me.

Yep, that's part of the translation. There's not too much left, but I used the Zelda Wiki page quite a bit to clarify a few things.

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Posted on 10-25-12 03:15:04 PM

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Espyo mentioned a few things from unseen64 on the SS talk page that we might be able to add to our SS page. Check out what I said on the talk page under the header "Unseen64 stuff" for specifics -> link here.

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Dark Linkaël

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Posted on 10-30-12 11:45:36 AM

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The problem is that I can not play Skyward Sword on my computer because it requires the WiiMotion Plus and I do not know how. Several months ago, I wanted to try to play to try to activate the Map Select located in the demo of the game, but there are no files ".map", is very difficult.

Besides, I can not use fully "CTools", because it crashes when I load a model of a room.

I can not do research on Skyward Sword, or even confirm some things unused.

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Posted on 10-30-12 06:03:02 PM

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Originally posted by Dark Linkaël
The problem is that I can not play Skyward Sword on my computer because it requires the WiiMotion Plus and I do not know how. Several months ago, I wanted to try to play to try to activate the Map Select located in the demo of the game, but there are no files ".map", is very difficult.

Besides, I can not use fully "CTools", because it crashes when I load a model of a room.

I can not do research on Skyward Sword, or even confirm some things unused.

Wouldn't connecting the Wii Remote be as simple as this and this? The bare minimum to get the game running in Dolphin would be a Wii Remote Plus, a Bluetooth adapter, and an IR sensor bar. Because this is just for hacking into the game and not playing it, I would just borrow the IR sensor from a real Wii. I once connected a Wii Remote to my computer but that was ages ago. Realistically, the next time I can truly look into this myself would be sometime in late December because I don't have my Wii crap with me at the moment. I was kind of hoping that someone would want to look ahead of time.

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Posted on 10-31-12 12:01:22 AM

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I know there used to be (maybe there still is?) a build of Dolphin that had experimental WMP emulation, though it was a nightmare to configure on a keyboard

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Posted on 10-31-12 12:58:13 AM

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Originally posted by Kargaroc
I know there used to be (maybe there still is?) a build of Dolphin that had experimental WMP emulation, though it was a nightmare to configure on a keyboard

I'm not surprised. Honestly, it would be much easier to just use a real WRP. Not to mention that if you have already played SS on a real console like I have, you already have it.

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Posted on 10-31-12 09:52:31 AM

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I also forgot to say that I did not have a computer powerful enough to play Skyward Sword, it's still too slow.

Anyway, this is not a game with a lot of unused contained. It is in the line of Twilight Princess and the latest games. The Wind Waker is a paradise in comparison!

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Posted on 10-31-12 07:58:34 PM

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Originally posted by Dark Linkaël
I also forgot to say that I did not have a computer powerful enough to play Skyward Sword, it's still too slow.

Anyway, this is not a game with a lot of unused contained. It is in the line of Twilight Princess and the latest games. The Wind Waker is a paradise in comparison!

The reason why I think it is still worth checking out is because according to unseen64:

"an older version of that temple you go into at the beginning of the game (StageF402Bef and StageF402Bef _s)"

To me this says that there is some older model of some temple at the beginning of the game. To me this is interesting enough to check out. We might be able to use bmdview2 to see differences of the models if this is the case.

By the way(I will assume the file system in SS is similar to WW), I know that SS has that unused demo room but has anyone taken a deeper look at other rooms of the game? Remember how some used groups in WW do contain unused room arcs? SS might be similar to that.

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Posted on 10-31-12 09:08:32 PM

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It's still different than The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. There are some similarities in certain files. "Ctools" is a good program to see the patterns and textures of Skyward Sword, but I have problems with it.

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Jul - The Cutting Room Floor - The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

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