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05-04-22 06:05:55 PM
Jul - Gaming - A Roguelike Thread New poll - New thread - New reply
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Tiden
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Posted on 12-28-11 08:47:01 PM Link | Quote
I've been putting this off for far too long, but now is probably a good time to start a roguelikes and roguelike-like thread.

What are roguelikes?

Roguelikes are games, typically turn-based with textual graphics, that feature open-ended gameplay, and oodles of procedurally-generated content.

But what's the difficulty like?

Roguelikes are generally unpredictable, feature permadeath, and may frequently feature bullshit instant-death situations that you will, with repeated play, learn to avoid (probably.) Some of the easier ones, like Brogue or Dungeons of Dredmor, have fewer variables to worry about early on when you're just starting out. Others start out somewhat difficult and don't generally let up as you progress through the dungeon(s).

Why are there letters and shit all over my screen?! GIVE ME GRAPHICS BLARUHGUGHGH

The original roguelike, Rogue, didn't need graphics at all... largely because it was released in the early 80s. Roguelikes generally stick to using characters and symbols to represent items instead of full color tiles and sprites, which makes adding new content a breeze as new assets don't need to be created for whatever is added. More recent games tend to feature full color graphics (not animated, mind).

The controls listing is like some kind of eldritch abomination. My god.

Context-sensitive controls would be kind of pointless to have in a game that focuses on being largely turn-based. Most will have some sort of quick reference for commonly-used commands, like opening/closing doors, dropping items, and movement (obviously.) Mouse control tends to vary wildly, as well. You can count on the numpad and vi keys to be used for movement, at the least.

A brief, not necessarily comprehensive list of roguelikes.

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup (playable online, here!)

Pretty popular, and it's one of my favorite roguelikes that I've put off playing (and making this thread) until 0.10 is out. Features gobs upon gobs of races/"backgrounds" (classes) to play, and features a tutorial mode. The tutorial doesn't exactly mean it isn't easy. You will die in this just as much as any other roguelike. On the bright side, no having to look up spoilers! Anything you could ever want to know about a monster/item/feature can be discovered by e(x)amining and describing it (v)

A good starting combination to use used to be Mountain Dwarf Fighters (MDFi), though with MD being removed, Minotaur Fighters (MiFi) seem to be a good replacement.

Brogue

A simple roguelike. This game looks great although some things about it put me off, like not being able to move diagonally through doors. Doesn't have any sort of class/race selection, and it really doesn't need it. The site for the game lists plenty of tips for surviving the numerous floors of the dungeon.

Angband

This one draws a lot of its lore from The Lord of the Rings, and is one of the older roguelikes out there. Still very much maintained, as 3.4 seems to be under active development. It supports modding by modifying the game's data files, called edit files, and the ease of modifying the game's source has led to the creation of many, many variants of the game. I've only described (and linked to) the "vanilla" version of the game.

Dungeons of Dredmor

Available for $5 from steam (currently on sale, yay winter sale!) Dredmor is a humorous roguelike, with spiffy full color graphics and a greatly simplified control scheme. Its lessened difficulty and optional permadeath compared to other roguelikes should serve as a gentler introduction to roguelikes as a whole.

It is very, very buggy, as well. A highlight from recently was that heals could be resisted, and end up with you not getting healed at all, and erratic teleportation whenever you tried to do anything. :stare: The devs have been working on hard on fixing these, at least. Modding also seems to be very broken and/or unfinished.

There's also a cheap ($3 at full price) DLC available that adds new monsters, new items, new skills, and a slightly longer dungeon (five additional floors.)
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Posted on 12-28-11 09:00:16 PM (last edited by Shy Mikan at 12-28-11 06:05 PM) Link | Quote
Um...
I made a roguelike thread long ago back when lol NetHack.

Which by the way, should be in your list. I mean, it's NetHack. The game where you can warp out of existence, trip on a cockatrice, and piss off the gods to bask in disintegration beams.

I stopped playing it after lol deadly poison, but I should pick it up for a while.
(go here!)

Though technically it comes from Rogue. But so does Angband.


Also the Mystery Dungeon series. I'd think they are the easier roguelike to get into? (Though not that they are easy, just more familiar than going straight into the usually overcomplicated everything in most roguelikes)

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Posted on 12-28-11 09:11:57 PM Link | Quote
I do play quite a bit of Stone soup myself... when I feel like it.

I get bored after around 10-20 deaths and put the game off for another few months.

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Posted on 12-28-11 09:24:15 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Shy Mikan
I made a roguelike thread long ago back when lol NetHack.


I was too lazy to go dig that one up, and I feel like this one has a better OP. I didn't list NetHack because I don't really feel like it's a good roguelike to get started with. There are far too many esoteric ways to escape death (and to escape into death) that you won't be aware of until you've spent many, many hours with the game (or peruse the spoiler files.)

Originally posted by Lunaria
I do play quite a bit of Stone soup myself... when I feel like it.

I get bored after around 10-20 deaths and put the game off for another few months.


This is me, although on good days I can semi-reliably get a few floors down (far enough to see entrances to Orc, and less frequently Lair), mostly by (ab)using SpVM (Spriggan Venom Mage.) Hooray for running around and stinging/mephitic clouding everything and stabbing things to death. :specialed:
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Posted on 12-28-11 09:31:47 PM Link | Quote
I like to play merfolk scald, once I even got down and did the whole labyrinth... and then I died on something stupid in the lair! :specialed:

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Posted on 12-28-11 09:34:10 PM (last edited by Shy Mikan at 12-28-11 06:35 PM) Link | Quote
Um...
Originally posted by hydrapheetz
I didn't list NetHack because I don't really feel like it's a good roguelike to get started with.
It definitely isn't, yeah.

Still, Mystery Dungeon is a pretty good introduction to roguelikes anyway.
I'm talking more about the Shiren games as Pokémon is more about the management between the dungeons, though the later has the L1/No Items/leader only/reset stats dungeons which are in the same spirit.

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Posted on 12-28-11 09:48:43 PM Link | Quote
The mystery dungeon games lack a lot of variation though, and get stale very fast. I suppose YMMV, but once I got done with the main story in the PMD games, I got bored with them very fast.

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Posted on 12-29-11 01:16:00 AM Link | Quote
Aye, Shiren's good. I haven't played the Wii one much, though; it's a bit different from the SNES/DS one. Not that it's a bad thing, I just don't know much about it yet.

I like the Pokemon ones too, but they are quite different. The main story is easy, but the post-story dungeons are... not so much.

I also play a lot of DoomRL. Doom, with a levelling and inventory system, as a roguelike. Works surprisingly well, actually. Much more combat-oriented than most (obviously, given the source material), and resource management is mostly a matter of ammo, armor, and medpacks. Release 0.9.9.5 is coming soonish, hopefully within a week.

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Tiden
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Posted on 01-06-12 03:06:05 AM Link | Quote
There's another roguelike I came across recently that underwent a name change and... a change in general: Tales of Maj'Eyal, formerly Tales of Middle Earth and an Angband variant. Puts more focus on talents and skills rather than "HOARD ALL THE ITEMS, ALL OF THEM." Not once did I have to use a potion while playing a Dwarf Bulwark (think warrior-type dude) because there are no potions.

It might be worth watching. The game claims to be moddable (it's running on an engine also created by the developer of the game), and it's actively developed. There's also some hints of persistence here, as some classes and races need to be unlocked through regular play. There's towns to discover and quests to do instead of just "go forth, loot this dungeon, kill the dude at the end" (Angband, Dredmor)
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Posted on 01-06-12 03:32:54 AM Link | Quote
Seconding the DoomRL mention. I've been playing it again now that 0.9.9.5 is out, and people who have donated in the past get a beta of the graphical version, which looks pretty damn awesome.

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Posted on 02-06-12 03:26:21 AM (last edited by Aeonic Butterfly at 02-06-12 12:26 AM) Link | Quote
I think my favorite variants are Nethack, Fatal Labrynith, and Powder I met someone who played Caste of the Winds way back in the day, however.

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Posted on 02-07-12 02:35:16 AM Link | Quote
I played Castle of the Winds when I was younger. It's not awful by any means, but it's more "random dungeon crawler" than roguelike.

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Posted on 04-10-12 05:53:15 AM Link | Quote

Ha, now that I've sighted this thread, I must brag.

Originally posted by hydrapheetz
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup (playable online, here!)


I have beaten this. High Elf Conjurer of Ashenzari. Been playing a YEAR and this is my first win, right here baby. ♥♥♥

(In case it helps some of you grasp the absolute magnitude of my colors that you so desire to soak in: this is a Permadeath game, it deletes your save file every time you die, and I managed to win with a non-newbie-friendly character combination. My feat was great indeed. ^^ Though, it won't bring Michael Jackson back or anything, so I guess it was only *mildly* great when you put it THAT way... but it was still great. And took ages of frustration and effort.)

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Posted on 04-10-12 09:12:07 PM Link | Quote
Yeah I don't think I'll ever win Crawl myself. ;

While I do love to sit down and play Crawl some days, it's just a little bit on the... slow side. Which kinda makes me do rash moves to speed things up. Needless to say, that's kinda fatal in this game.

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Posted on 04-10-12 09:36:38 PM Link | Quote

Originally posted by Lunaria
Yeah I don't think I'll ever win Crawl myself. ;

While I do love to sit down and play Crawl some days, it's just a little bit on the... slow side. Which kinda makes me do rash moves to speed things up. Needless to say, that's kinda fatal in this game.

Ah, yes. I'm always tempted to use Shafts to skip several floors on purpose, which can be a real nasty, quick way to lose a character.

Quite a bit of players actually limit themselves to a couple hours a day on Crawl, between work shifts or something, because you can literally pause and save your game at any time ever so there's no pressure even in "tricky spots" in their game. (Saving and quitting is "Shift+S" by the way.) I always tend to want to "power play" it, but the one time I won was when I saved and quit whenever I was wearing down from it, and came back to it when I was bored of the other stuff. I think that's the secret, really. Just taking it easy and casual.

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Posted on 04-11-12 02:59:45 AM Link | Quote
I've gotten close-ish a few times.

The problem I have with it is that learning new things about the game often kills you. This is fine while you're picking up the basics and only losing 10-20 minutes with each death. It's less fine to figure out that a Shadow Fiend's Torment ability can hit you through its allies when you're easily strong enough to win the game if you don't screw up.

On the other hand, I only have any fun when I'm playing Demonspawn Wanderers, which exacerbates this problem severely. And in the situation above, I probably could have escaped if I had realized how much trouble I was in. I can definitely understand wanting to worship Ashenzari just so that you know how strong your enemies' weapons are. I had just finished wading through a room full of reapers, so I underestimated the next one I encountered.

I haven't played in some time now because there are probably several more deaths like that waiting for me and I feel like maybe I should draw the line at sixteen hours lost on one death?

Let alone the one I lost the link to where I died due to mistaken input because my ssh connection lagged after over 40 hours of trying to get a demigod over level 15...

OH WELL, time to fire it up again! (whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy)

Alternatively: My sister's score page, she has four wins. I am jealous.
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Posted on 04-11-12 05:17:31 AM Link | Quote
Alternatively: My sister's score page, she has four wins. I am jealous.

You know, if anyone was going to make fun of female gamers... sorry, but four wins in Crawl would earn one the right to tell the haters to STFU.

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Posted on 04-16-12 02:52:32 AM Link | Quote
Hey look it's Garr from OUT OF NOWHERE.

About two weeks ago, an old Game Boy roguelike was translated, called Cave Noir. It's got a lot of great music, and an interesting gimmick to it, I'd recommend checking it out! Here's the translation patch, I don't want to go all files and post the actual ROM, of course.

The primary gimmick is that you have four dungeons, each of which having a different objective for you to complete for each "level". You don't level up in a traditional manner, instead you get stronger the further into the levels you go. This actually makes it very puzzle-like and reminds me a lot of Stone Soup's tactical combat, as you usually want to avoid combat if you can get away with it. Enemies don't drop EXP, and rarely drop useful items.(Though the items they drop are VERY useful!)

Give it a shot!

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