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GlitterBerri

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Posted on 03-02-12 07:53:56 AM (last edited by GlitterBerri at 03-09-12 04:01 PM) Link | Quote
Official TP thread. To start things off, the game's map select.

-Menu1.dat, found in E3 2006 Demo, courtesy of Dark Linkaël
-Translation (in progress)

Since these are Pastebin files, everyone can edit them. Yay! If you spot mistakes in the formatting, please fix 'em, and if you want to help translate, that would be nice too. Find and replace searches are very useful for this, but if you're replacing something, put a space before and after it. For example, replace "テスト" with " Test ", so we don't end up having the English translation looking like "VolcanoTest".
Dark Linkaël

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Posted on 03-02-12 08:23:44 AM Link | Quote
Very nice work from you! Thank you for taking the time to do this very long translation!

There are some really interesting stuff on it and which are no longer available in the final game.

I warned you that I can not work on finding the debug menu, because it seems to be missing things too important to execute it.

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Posted on 03-02-12 08:32:50 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Dark Linkaël
Very nice work from you! Thank you for taking the time to do this very long translation!

There are some really interesting stuff on it and which are no longer available in the final game.

I warned you that I can not work on finding the debug menu, because it seems to be missing things too important to execute it.


Even if you did, aren't there only 2 unused rooms so far discovered in the game? I feel the debug menu is best used to access unused rooms. I find it strange that Nintendo thoroughly scrubbed this game of unused rooms while the Wind Waker has a plethora of rooms. I hope Skyward Sword didn't meet the same fate as Twilight Princess.
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Posted on 03-02-12 08:32:52 AM (last edited by GlitterBerri at 03-02-12 05:34 AM) Link | Quote
Thanks, I'll keep updating it as I finish more. I'd be curious to hear some of the things you see that aren't included in the final game, aside from the obvious test maps and stuff.

All these test maps would have taken up a huge amount of space, Cuber, no? I reckon that's the reason they removed them, since there were so many. But I don't know too much about the subject.
Dark Linkaël

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Posted on 03-02-12 08:38:36 AM Link | Quote
I will look in detail later. Right now, I try to find a better way to execute the debug menu of The Wind Waker. A method much cleaner and can execute throughout the game It asks me hours of concentration to understand the mechanics of the game

Skyward Sword? It is even worse! One room available and completely empty. There is no reason that Nintendo changes its intentions. Paradise in the Wind Waker, it's ancient history... Alas...

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Posted on 03-02-12 08:39:20 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by GlitterBerri
Thanks, I'll keep updating it as I finish more. I'd be curious to hear some of the things you see that aren't included in the final game, aside from the obvious test maps and stuff.

All these test maps would have taken up a huge amount of space, Cuber, no? I reckon that's the reason they removed them, since there were so many. But I don't know too much about the subject.


Well of course I wouldn't expect every one of those maps to still be in the game . I just find it strange how this game was cleaned so extremely well while the Wind Waker wasn't.
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Posted on 03-02-12 08:41:32 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Dark Linkaël

Skyward Sword? It is even worse! One room available and completely empty. There is no reason that Nintendo changes its intentions. Paradise in the Wind Waker, it's ancient history... Alas...


Well that is depressing
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Posted on 03-02-12 08:47:48 AM Link | Quote
Nintendo hates hackers and we see it in recent years. So, enjoy the game with just under 10 years, it is the latter which will offer many interesting things, like The Wind Waker. In either case, the theft of prototypes, but this is another story...

I was very disappointed by seeing the places available in Twilight Princess, I dreamed to see places like that seen at E3 2004, for example.

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Posted on 03-03-12 03:02:15 AM Link | Quote
The inconsistent dungeon numbering and non descriptive filenames in Twilight Princess make me think that Nintendo EAD developed some kind of automated obfuscation program that not only scrambles the names of things, but also automatically removes all resources not referenced by the game.

Wind Waker was either completed before they developed it, or possibly, as a result of setting deadlines which they never did before or since, was never ran through it.

Now... I wonder how good Nintendo EAD's security really is...
probably better than a lot of government security...
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Posted on 03-03-12 04:26:00 AM Link | Quote
Post #4548 · 03-02-12 11:26:00 PM
I wouldn't expect much from the company behind such wonders as the strcmp bug.

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GlitterBerri

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Posted on 03-03-12 04:32:46 AM Link | Quote
What's that?
Peardian

  
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Posted on 03-03-12 06:04:39 AM (last edited by Peardian at 03-03-12 03:05 AM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kargaroc
The inconsistent dungeon numbering and non descriptive filenames in Twilight Princess make me think that Nintendo EAD developed some kind of automated obfuscation program that not only scrambles the names of things, but also automatically removes all resources not referenced by the game.

Judging by the amount of content in Super Mario Galaxy, also made by them, I highly doubt that.


Inconsistent dungeon numbering and non-descriptive filenames can be attributed to naming conventions. If you're designing a dungeon, and one of the earlier ones in the list gets cut or reordered, you're not going to then go and rename every single file and change every existing script to reflect the new order. And if you're working on a project with a large amount of similar pieces, there are so many descriptive names you can give to objects before they start becoming confusing or overly long. Try naming all of the grottos and NPCs in Ocarina of Time without resorting to numbers. I think you'll start to see what I mean when you get to "GreenPantsWhiteShirtNoHairGuy" and "OtherSandyGrottoWithRedRupee".

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Posted on 03-03-12 07:46:55 AM Link | Quote
Post #4550 · 03-03-12 02:46:55 AM
Originally posted by GlitterBerri
What's that?
Basically, the genius who wrote the Wii system software made an incredibly dumb mistake in the most important function behind the entire security system, rendering the whole system about as impenetrable as a wall of sponges. And nobody took a second look at this critical code and noticed this obvious glaring error. And this code was burned into the system ROM where it could never be patched. (Newer consoles have it fixed, but those manufactured before the fix are stuck that way.)

Then there's the myriad other bugs (and the whole design, really) in the Wii and DS OSes, the sprintf bug in Metroid Prime Hunters (similar mistake, allowed players to remotely crash your game online), etc etc etc... Nintendo don't really have a good record for security.

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Posted on 03-03-12 11:38:39 AM Link | Quote
If it is completely impossible to see a black screen with the list that you see above, I noticed that debugging also seems the same as The Wind Waker (I speak on the topic of research TWW). I do not know if it works and the only way to know is already to find that of The Wind Waker, because you never know with Nintendo.

Here is a picture of the exact location of launch debugging in Twilight Princess (debug__Fv in main01__Fv):



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GlitterBerri

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Posted on 03-05-12 11:15:33 PM (last edited by GlitterBerri at 03-06-12 05:12 AM) Link | Quote
I found those developer notes for you, DarkLinkael. I'm not sure this is all of them, so you could look around for others if you're interested.

Filepath:
TP DISK \ Partition #1（the game itself） \ res \ Object \ Sample.arc \ archive \ dir \ file2.txt

It's developed/expanded by Sample.arc

---

●地形ユニットMOVEBGにスイッチ1の情報は渡されてないらしい。酒井さん談。
たしかに、マップデータ変換時に使い捨ててだいたいOKな情報だからそうなってる気がしてきたけど、
やっぱりそうなの？

●レイヤーについて整理。昼夜と表裏をなんとか。
・昼夜については、切り替えをどうする？ゆっくり(「タクト」かばっさり(「ムジュラ」か？
・表裏については、もう1つ2つ追加があるかもとか。

About the layer adjustments... should we have two sides for day and night, or what?
-How should we transition between day and night? Slow, like TWW, or fast, like Majora?
-For the two sides, we might have one or two additions.

●自動化したい。odemrun引数とかObjectSenderとか使えばできるような気が。
・メモリマップの出力。
・メモリバンクの配置設定。
●コリジョンポリゴンを全表示したい。確認のために。
ObjectReflector[/Node/zelda地形チェック内部|デバッグポリゴン描画]で表示されるけど、
その場合はリンクのそばのポリゴンだけなのでわりと残念。
# そういえば、吉田さんのポリゴン統合とかの動作確認はどうやってるのかな。

●2Dマップレール
○十字キー上で表示されるマップの実装はどうなってますか？とりあえず確認だけ。
→とりあえず先にやっとく。岩脇さん談。
→進行中。吉田さんが。

2D Map Rail
How is implementing the maps displayed using Up on the D pad going? Just checking.
-It's going. Talk to Iwawaki.
-It's coming along. Yoshida's working on it.

■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
■　対処済み
■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
●地形ユニットについて確認。半透明ポリゴンはどうなりますか？
半透明地形ユニット同士の重なりは問題になるけど、そうでなければいいの？
たとえば、シャドウ用の半透明ポリゴンとか。エフェクトなどで使用する半透明ポリゴンとの重なりは大丈夫？
→禁止。うまく描画されるときもあるけど、それは偶然。
実際にはマテリアルソートとの関係で出たり出なかったりするはず。
→マテリアル名で描画順序を指定できるようにしてもらった。これによって、ディティール表現の
ための重ね合わせる半透明は使用可能に。
しかし、水面のような真の意味での半透明はやはり不可。ポリゴンソートとかしないから。
真の半透明はMOVEBGでやる方向で。
→地形ユニットMOVEBGとしてモデル描画オブジェクトを追加。
●jccが大量のメモリを使用してる。800MB近く。減りませんか。
→岩脇さん、松谷さんに連絡済み。
→半分くらいに減らしてもらった。もうちょっと減らしてほしいので、いずれさらに調べてもらう。
→激減。別物なくらい高速化。

●デモアーカイブについて。
○リソース登録所でつくることができるか？見た感じ、アクターとかと同じみたいだけど。
→できる。まったく同じ。

About the Demo Archive
Can we make them in the resource entry? As you saw, it's the same as with the actors and such.
-We can. They're totally the same.

○xnim_id_conv.plって何？arcファイルのリソースIDに0x10000をたしてるけど、どうして？
→オブジェクト用リソースかデモ用リソースかの区別。
汎用アクターでは、デモデータによるアニメーションモード指定を解釈するかどうかも

What's xnim_id_conv.pl? 0x10000 is added to the arc file's resource ID, but why?
-It differentiates between whether it's an object resource or a demo resource.
It might also explain the animation mode specification according to the demo data in the generic actors.

→指定を一度に行えるようにIDをビット分割する方向で。
●シーン指定モーニング起動について、レイヤーもオプションで指定したい。
→対応済み。佐々木さんが。

●シーン指定モーニング起動について、--menu=LEVEL2とすると、ステージが選択されない。
部屋番号を指定しないと無効っぽい。
→対処済み。岩脇さんが。

For the scene specification morning launch, if you do --menu=LEVEL2, the stage isn't selected.
Looks like it's invalid unless the room number is specified.
--Iwawaki dealt with it.

●particle.xnimの登録はどうしようか？
d_particle_name.*同様に、particle.xnimもParticle/mk_arc.batでcvs updateしちゃうか。
→対処済み。

What should we do about the particle.xnim entry?
Shall we do a cvs update of particle.xnim in Particle/mk_arc.bat, same as d_particle_name.*?
--It's been dealt with.

●アーカイブファイル名の制限は？
7文字以下って聞いたような気もするけど、それはオブジェクト登録名だっけ？
じゃあ何文字以下？DOS8.3形式？ロングファイルネーム？
# 「W_motion」というのがあるということはDOS8.3形式なのか。
→アーカイブ名は9文字以下。森田さんから。

What's the limit on archive file names?
I feel like I heard someone say it was 7 characters, or was that for object entry names?
What's the limit? DOS8.3 method? Long file names?
Is the DOS8.3 method the reason behind # W_motion?
--Archive names have to be under 9 characters, says Morita.

(Cont...)
Rena
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Posted on 03-06-12 06:39:11 AM Link | Quote
Post #4562 · 03-06-12 01:39:11 AM
Originally posted by GlitterBerri
DOS8.3
...seriously?

(also holy UTF-8 support fail batman)

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GlitterBerri

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Posted on 03-06-12 08:14:53 AM Link | Quote
●シーン指定モーニング起動について、たとえば、
% OdemRun ... -a --noopening --menu=LEVEL3,0
のように実行すると、「LEVEL3」部屋0ではなく「Fire_Dungeon(Room7)」が選択されてる。
ちなみに、このメニュー項目は
--------ここから--------
(前略
LEVEL3,（0）,LEVEL3,0,0,-1,
LEVEL3,（1）,LEVEL3,1,0,-1,
LEVEL3,（2）,LEVEL3,2,0,-1,
(中略
Fire_Dungeon(Room3),,LEVEL3,3,0,-1,
Fire_Dungeon(Room4),,LEVEL3,4,0,-1,
Fire_Dungeon(Room7),,LEVEL3,7,0,-1,
(後略
--------ここまで--------
となっていて、メニューテキストmenu.datの中でもっとも後にある「LEVEL3」ディレクトリ。
同じディレクトリに属する部屋が異なる表示タイトルのステージに含まれていた場合、もっとも後の
ステージになってしまうのか？ちなみに、メニューの「LEVEL3」はちゃんと＜(3)＞になってる。
→対処済み。岩脇さんが。もっとも前のステージになるように。

About the scene specification morning launch.. when I execute it like with % OdemRun ... -a --noopening --menu=LEVEL3,0, for example, Fire_Dungeon(Room7) is selected, not LEVEL3.
By the way, the menu entries are...
--------From Here--------
(Omitted)
LEVEL3,（0）,LEVEL3,0,0,-1,
LEVEL3,（1）,LEVEL3,1,0,-1,
LEVEL3,（2）,LEVEL3,2,0,-1,
(Omitted)
Fire_Dungeon(Room3),,LEVEL3,3,0,-1,
Fire_Dungeon(Room4),,LEVEL3,4,0,-1,
Fire_Dungeon(Room7),,LEVEL3,7,0,-1,
(Omitted)
--------To Here--------
...the LEVEL3 directory being the very last one in the menu text of menu.dat.
In the event that rooms from the same directory are included in stages with a different display title, will they be the very last stage?
By the way, LEVEL3 in the menu is (3).
--It's been dealt with by Iwawaki so they become the first stage.

●「リソース登録所」について。
○SRDさんのPCの環境は？Admin権限は使えるか？ActiveXのインストールは可能か？
→可能。

What about SRD's PC environment? Can you use Admin powers? Is an ActiveX install possible?
--It's possible.

○リソースファイルをローカルPCにコピーするとき、そのコピー先パスは？%ZELDA_JMAP_DIR%\rom\DVDRoot？
→%GCZELDA1_ROOT%/GDEVImage/DVDRootで。%GCZELDA1_ROOT%が未定義ならダメ。

When copying the resource files to a local PC, what path should I copy to? %ZELDA_JMAP_DIR%\rom\DVDRoot?
--%GCZELDA1_ROOT%/GDEVImage/DVDRoot. If %GCZELDA1_ROOT% is unspecified, it's a no-go.
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Posted on 03-06-12 08:15:16 AM Link | Quote
●bdlデータをbmdcuttex3.exeで処理していいのか？非トゥーン指向という話だけど。滝沢さんは問題なさそうと言った。
→よい。やっとくこと。メモリ削減とかで効果があるかもしれないし。
→対処済み。csvファイルは空で。

●パーティクル。
○古いデータがdolzelに残ってるくさい。処分する？
→処分するならすれば。dolzel/res/Particleディレクトリを空にしてからmk_arc.bat。岩脇さん談。
→近日中に伊藤が実行する予定。

Particles
It sucks that the old data is left in dolzel. Should I get rid of it?
-If you like. After you empty the dolzel/res/Particle directory, go for mk_arc.bat. Talk to Iwawaki.
-Ito plans to do it one of these days.

○PSceneのグループを整理したい。254を残してばっさりと。伊藤談。
→jmpデータで使用されてなければやってよし。岩脇さん談。
→伊藤が実行済み。

I want to organize the PScene group. I'll leave 254 completely. Talk to Ito.
-That's fine if they're not used in the jmp data. Talk to Iwawaki.
-Ito dealt with it.

○mk_arc.bat で //d/zelda/dolzel/ にリソースをコピーしてるけど、これはひどく環境依存。ちょっと心配。
→伊藤に通達済み。

I'm copying the resources in mk_arc.bat to //d/zelda/dolzel, but it's really dependent on the environment. I'm a little worried.
-I've let Ito know.

●jccでunionみたいなデータは生成できるか？
できるんだったら、イベントデータについて、zevとstbのときに必要だけど、カメライベントには必要のない
ファイル名の情報があるので、それをunionの一方にする。
→生成可。じゃあそれ。
→仕様を提出済み。小川さんに。
●2Dマップレール
○ポリゴンにまったく属さない頂点があった場合、その頂点はたぶん誤り。エラーに。
→対処済み。岩脇さんが。
○ラインにも色指定を。
→jccの対応がまだだけど、それはデータ仕様がまだだから。あわせて、2Dマップレール警告をエラーに。
→対処済み。岩脇さんが。

Boring technobabble is boring. Sorry, I suck at this sort of thing. Here's hoping it helps someone, somewhere.
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Posted on 03-06-12 08:51:45 AM Link | Quote
It's really fun to see texts like this, especially coming from the developers! I do not think it could exist before GlitterBerri talk about a few days ago. Nintendo withdraws many things, but it does not remove these texts rather personal. Strange though...

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Posted on 03-06-12 05:01:49 PM Link | Quote
You can turn on the debug mode by setting the DVD version to 0x91 or higher. This is the byte at offset 0x07 in the ISO file. This applies to Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Animal Crossing as far as I know.

Versions 0 to 0x80 disable debug mode. Versions 0x81 to 0x90 enable debug mode on development consoles. 0x91 and higher ALWAYS enable it.


On the Wii version of TP, you can plug in GC controllers and use the buttons on them to control debug stuff. I believe Animal Crossing GC also does it with controllers 2/3/4.. I haven't checked out TP for GC or Wind Waker :/

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