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Jul - Gaming - Cave Story + New poll - New thread - New reply
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Xkeeper

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Posted on 11-24-11 09:28:02 PM Link | Quote
Bought it, ripped it open, found a bunch of candy. shocker.

It's on "sale" for $8.75 or whatever. Feel free to buy it if you want. It's another amazingly sloppy piece of work, complete with a bunch of .DS_Store files laying around.

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Darkdata
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Posted on 11-24-11 09:30:06 PM Link | Quote
So a bunch of apple desktop files for no reason? Yay sloppy work!

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Xkeeper

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Posted on 11-24-11 09:31:06 PM Link | Quote
Among a bunch of other Fun Stuph.

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Xenesis

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Posted on 11-24-11 09:37:37 PM Link | Quote
.DS store files get into EVERYTHING. ._.
ReiNi
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Posted on 11-24-11 09:47:54 PM (last edited by Reshiram at 11-24-11 06:50 PM) Link | Quote
It's not democracy, it's DiGiorno.
175	THIS LEADS TO RED DEMON IF YOU REFUSE TO FIGHT MA PIGNON~

176	#0997

177	<KEY<MS3<TUR

178	The Red Ogre!

Everything there is to say.
(c) Nicalis.

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paulguy

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Posted on 11-24-11 11:28:59 PM Link | Quote
Paulguy's Post configuration
desktop.ini files happen too.

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Xkeeper

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Posted on 11-25-11 03:33:58 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by paulguy
desktop.ini files happen too.

That was mostly a minor gripe as a sign of laziness on their part. The real meat is in the fact they didn't change anything.

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Bitmap
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Posted on 11-26-11 08:16:01 PM Link | Quote
Bought it. It's nice. Loved me some Cave Story (Even though I have never beaten it)

I guess I'm one of the few who likes Nicalis? :\

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DigitalBasic
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Posted on 11-26-11 08:31:07 PM (last edited by cpubasic13 at 11-26-11 05:31 PM) Link | Quote
So you like that they stole mods and is now profiting off of them?

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Posted on 11-26-11 08:41:11 PM Link | Quote
Anyone mind explaining for us less tech savy?

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The fun has been doubled!
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Posted on 11-26-11 08:46:05 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by cpubasic13
So you like that they stole mods and is now profiting off of them?


You know, I heard of this and never found not one article of this. So I really can't say anything.

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ReiNi
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Posted on 11-26-11 08:54:08 PM (last edited by Reshiram at 11-26-11 05:56 PM) Link | Quote
It's not democracy, it's DiGiorno.
Originally posted by Karis
Anyone mind explaining for us less tech savy?

Basically, they took the original game, included some entire mods (with the whole game. Aeon Genesis' translation included), and called it their own work tweaking them slightly so nobody notices.

Instead of, you know, actually doing it themselves. Or crediting the people who made the stuff.


Also the translation is over Aeon Genesis'.

Originally posted by Bitmap
You know, I heard of this and never found not one article of this. So I really can't say anything.
That's the point of what Xk posted. The left file is the original game (with the Aeon Genesis translation and Boss Rush patches), the right one is Nicalis' version.

They are almost identical.

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Posted on 11-26-11 09:46:44 PM (last edited by Bitmap at 11-26-11 07:44 PM) Link | Quote
Oh that explains it. I thought it was two rows of code or whatever. Huh, how about that.

Has anyone even mentioned to the creator about this? I mean, one would think this would spark a shitstorm between Nicalas and Pixel.

E- Please correct me if i'm wrong. But after going through the Nicalis website and as well as digging deeper. These were not just mods that was just plugged in. Some of the designs were "Re-made" by the creator himself.

I'm just going to assume that you guys are thinking too much about the whole stealing thing. Cause I would assume a shitstorm would be happening if that is the case. I mean, either that or some of the money is going to Pixel himself. I mean, it -was- a free game after all. And if someone has improved on it, and is making money from this. Hell, I wouldn't be talking if I was making money.

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Posted on 11-26-11 10:56:24 PM (last edited by Xkeeper at 11-26-11 07:57 PM) Link | Quote
To explain it so that it makes sense:

- There was a mod from 2007 released on the cavestory tribute site forums done by someone that afaict has nothing to do with Nicalis.
- This mod managed to find its way into the ports Nicalis released with only superficial changes.

On the left is the original mod; on the right is the mod Nicalis is profiting off of.

This should make it obvious where the issues are.

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DigitalBasic
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Posted on 11-26-11 11:06:56 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Bitmap
I'm just going to assume that you guys are thinking too much about the whole stealing thing. Cause I would assume a shitstorm would be happening if that is the case.

You know why there isn't a shitstorm? Because it is Cave Story and people believe this directly supports Pixel himself when it doesn't. Even so, I doubt Pixel would want modder's work stolen from them as they make no profit.

If it was rewritten code, why were the comments from the original mod intact? That makes no sense.

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Posted on 11-26-11 11:35:40 PM (last edited by Bitmap at 11-26-11 08:59 PM) Link | Quote
E- There was something here. It's gone now.

Ok, so let me get this whole thing straight:

Awhile back someone made a mod for Cave Story (Challenges I am going to assume) and it made it's way to the newer versions of Cave Story.

From what I am understanding. Those who lashed out against the publisher quickly silenced them from the forums and continued development.

Now, Cave Story + is released and it just so happens to have the same code but with minor tweaks into it.

(One problem I see here is two things. First of all, Nicalis owns the game now. And two, it's still cave story. No matter how hard you look at it. It's still the same game. It's even sourced that the original creator did updates on the game to make it look "Better" and have translations. Like I remember Balrog saying Huzzah but it turns out that it was never the case with the correct translation. Etc. Etc.)

However, some people are telling me that credit was given where it was due. But still, it's obvious that he did steal the work.

I get it. I still bought it. And oh well, I still love it.


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Posted on 11-27-11 01:32:22 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Bitmap
Like I remember Balrog saying Huzzah but it turns out that it was never the case with the correct translation.


Two things, here. One of them is an honest-to-god nitpick, and the other one is more sinister.

The nitpick: Balrog never said OOOH YEAAAAH in Japanese, either. Example, from the malco.tsc file in Cave Story:

「ヘーイ！

That'd be "Heei", romanized directly, and more like a really big "HEY!" if you translated it 1:1. Thing is, that's kinda boring. The act of localization isn't just "make the moonspeak into english," it's also rewriting slightly to make the text more engaging... Like so: "Huzzah!" is a more fun interjection than just OH YEAH.

Now, for the sinister: The fact of the matter is that some of Aeon Genesis' translation is still lurking in the files. Just, in places that are not accessed normally, apparently. Note the Huzzah! on the file to the right side of that comparison. This, my friends, is a problem.


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Posted on 11-27-11 02:30:29 AM Link | Quote
Plus, Pixel was clearly not informed of mod stealing, so when he added the new stuff, Nicalis probably just shoved it into the existing stuff.

It's also just a port of the DSi version which is a port of the WiiWare version which is a hack of the original PC version, translation included.

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Posted on 11-27-11 03:09:56 AM (last edited by Reshiram at 11-27-11 01:43 AM) Link | Quote
It's not democracy, it's DiGiorno.
You know, it'd be pretty hilarious if there was a glitch in the game that allowed you to go out of the "boss area" bounds into the rest of the game.

... Actually, because of an oversight you could check the computer in Malco's Room, and activate the power, triggering a glitch in the original that played the cutscene and messed things up. Though this was (apparently) fixed up in a later version. (Of the original mod, I mean... though I was just able to reproduce it in the most recent version I could find)

Nothing seems to be changed from the original translation though, so maybe that thing is still broken... But you'd think then it'd have become widely spread by now then.
Still worth a try, anyway.

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Posted on 11-27-11 04:28:17 AM (last edited by Bitmap at 11-27-11 01:35 AM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by RahanAkero


Now, for the sinister: The fact of the matter is that some of Aeon Genesis' translation is still lurking in the files. Just, in places that are not accessed normally, apparently. Note the Huzzah! on the file to the right side of that comparison. This, my friends, is a problem.


Ok, but the one thing that is bothering me is that Nicalas pretty much has the rights to Cave Story. Changing words around and adding some of his own features is his own right.

E- Forgot to add that even though the code is still in the actual purchasable game. It's still the same Cave Story. Just polished and tweaked by Niclas.

Is it just the challenge modes that he ripped off? And even if he did, I'm sure he put the names of the people who actualy made those mods in the credits. He did this with DeceasedCrab from not only this game but La-Mulana (Even though he didn't mod the game. Looks like he isnt afraid of giving out shout outs). So to put the final nail on the coffin, you will have to look up the credits and see if he gave thanks to the actual creators.

If not, and I see proof. I will never purchase a Nicalis game ever again.

If there are names: I think we can at least give credit to the publisher for giving credit where it's due.

Sorry if i'm being hardheaded about this. I just like to look at things from both ways. And come to a conclusion that's beyond a shadow of a doubt.

E2- Oh, Seems Nicalis has immature business practices!

Whelp.

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Jul - Gaming - Cave Story + New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic

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