Jul -- News: This is totes legal, you guys

Green Birdo
Level: 93

Posts: 1860/2294
EXP: 8033476
For next: 19334

Since: 09-14-07

From: Buffalo, NY

Since last post: 9.7 years
Last activity: 9.7 years

Posted on 10-20-11 07:58:14 AM

Link | Quote

Paulguy's Post configuration

Not really saying they should be violent, just comparing what people are passionate about. They care more about their sports team losing than problems that actually matter.

____________________

Friendbot2000
Member
Level: 51

Posts: 567/577
EXP: 950584
For next: 63354

Since: 06-17-09

Since last post: 10.5 years
Last activity: 10.5 years

Posted on 10-27-11 04:32:02 PM

Link | Quote

Personally, I find the whole movement a little silly. I do believe the banks and financial system needs to be regulated better, but the idea that Wall Street is the big evil is a fear induced mob reaction to the downturn in my opinion. People don't realize that this takes time. The laws of this country are relatively outdated and they weren't designed for a lot of the situations we are in currently. People are upset with the way Congress is operating, but this is how Congress has ALWAYS operated. In fact the whole point of the system is that making laws IS a slow process. Checks and balances slow things down so one person or party can't push things through quickly without proper review. Congress has always been divided and that is the point.

People cry about corporate corruption thinking that it is a new development in the world, completely ignoring history. What of the guilds in the 17th and 18th century? The trusts during Teddy Rosevelt's presidency? The Patricians of Rome? This is nothing new people and it is not going to change drastically like you all expect it will. This is how things work in reality. You can call me cruel, cynical, and heartless; but the reality of the world is that it IS a cruel place.

The whole idea of Occupy Wallstreet is also silly because of the lack of organization. If they want people to take them seriously then they need to take a page from the Civil Rights movement and organize marches instead of just camping out in parks. When you protest you also need a specific agenda and from what I have seen by attending the Occupy movement in DC is they don't really have a specific set of things they want to address and fix. They are all over the place and that is why the majority of America and politicians are ignoring them.

This is just my heartless two cents.

Nicole

she's more meow now than man, twisted and evil

Disk-kun
Level: 146

Posts: 5251/6469
EXP: 38289992
For next: 223302

Since: 07-07-07

Pronouns: she/her
From: Boston, MA

Since last post: 79 days
Last activity: 20 hours

Posted on 10-27-11 04:39:21 PM

Link | Quote

Originally posted by Friendbot2000
People cry about corporate corruption thinking that it is a new development in the world, completely ignoring history. What of the guilds in the 17th and 18th century? The trusts during Teddy Rosevelt's presidency? The Patricians of Rome? This is nothing new people and it is not going to change drastically like you all expect it will. This is how things work in reality. You can call me cruel, cynical, and heartless; but the reality of the world is that it IS a cruel place.

I see this kind of argument all over the place, and I really don't understand it. Of course things can get better over time- would you really rather live in the 17th and 18th century than today? And things get better because some people do push and try to take action to change things... The fact that things can't be perfect doesn't mean they can't be better.

In any case, from what I can tell it's not so much about Congress being "slow" as Congress not doing anything.

____________________

Xkeeper

Level: 263

Posts: 19678/25353
EXP: 297181510
For next: 1778943

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 6 hours

Posted on 10-27-11 04:44:04 PM

Link | Quote

Originally posted by Friendbot2000
I do believe the banks and financial system needs to be regulated better, but the idea that Wall Street is the big evil is a fear induced mob reaction to the downturn in my opinion.

I don't see how. Wall Street is literally the symbol most of these institutions operate under; much like you protest on the White House's front lawn if you have an issue with the president, for the huge money-~~laundering~~ managing corporations, WS is where you'd go.

People don't realize that this takes time. The laws of this country are relatively outdated and they weren't designed for a lot of the situations we are in currently. People are upset with the way Congress is operating, but this is how Congress has ALWAYS operated.

Patently false; even a quick review of recent history will show that in recent years there has been an incredible abuse of the system to grind legislation to an absolute halt.

In fact the whole point of the system is that making laws IS a slow process. Checks and balances slow things down so one person or party can't push things through quickly without proper review. Congress has always been divided and that is the point.

Also patently false, see above. The point of Congress was exactly that one party would have power to do things; that's why they're, you know, elected. The party with the most representatives wins, which is more or less the entire point of democracy.

People cry about corporate corruption thinking that it is a new development in the world, completely ignoring history. What of the guilds in the 17th and 18th century? The trusts during Teddy Rosevelt's presidency? The Patricians of Rome? This is nothing new people and it is not going to change drastically like you all expect it will. This is how things work in reality. You can call me cruel, cynical, and heartless; but the reality of the world is that it IS a cruel place.

So we should just ignore it and let it go? Clearly that's the solution; there's no reason arresting murderers, because murders happen and will continue to happen. Bravo, excellent argument there.

The whole idea of Occupy Wallstreet is also silly because of the lack of organization. If they want people to take them seriously then they need to take a page from the Civil Rights movement and organize marches instead of just camping out in parks.

Do you even bother looking things up before you run your mouth?

When you protest you also need a specific agenda and from what I have seen by attending the Occupy movement in DC is they don't really have a specific set of things they want to address and fix. They are all over the place and that is why the majority of America and politicians are ignoring them.

This is just my heartless two cents.

If you're in the middle of fleecing the entire country for what it's worth, of fucking course you're going to keep quiet about the group of people trying to point you out. If you ignore it and you convince everybody else to ignore it, you win. It doesn't matter if you have a set of demands or not.

____________________

You might think that this layout is specifically EarthBound themed, but it might just be a reference to one of my favorite games.

Friendbot2000
Member
Level: 51

Posts: 568/577
EXP: 950584
For next: 63354

Since: 06-17-09

Since last post: 10.5 years
Last activity: 10.5 years

Posted on 10-28-11 12:51:52 AM (last edited by Friendbot2000 at 10-27-11 09:52 PM)

Link | Quote

Was I attacking you in any way Xkeeper? Did I insult your mother or something? If not, then there is no reason you should have responded in that tone at all. Pardon me, oh wise leader for having a view that differs from the left.

And great sources there, Wikipedia and all. And as for the jib about me looking stuff up...a Google search? Seriously? How about this for evidence, actually being there for the occupy protest march in Washington DC. Have you actually seen this movement with your own two eyes?

My point is that people are acting SURPRISED that all this is going on, when it has been the status quo for hundreds of years, no thousands.

And way to go to the extreme Mr. Philosophy with the murder quip.

Your response was really uncalled for and I in no way deserved it.

Stigandr
1440

Some say they're what landed at Roswell in 1947, and that their right eye sees infrared light. All we know is, they're called The Stigandr.
Level: 77

Posts: 901/1441
EXP: 4020104
For next: 171025

Since: 07-21-07

Since last post: 1.5 years
Last activity: 1.5 years

Posted on 10-28-11 01:31:45 AM

Link | Quote

Originally posted by Friendbot2000
Pardon me, oh wise leader for having a view that differs from the left.

You know, if we cut out the "oh wise leader" bit and change "the left" to "yours", Xk could use this quote to reply to you.

And it's not so much about surprise as it is a matter of being sick of it. People have an impressive tolerance for bullshit, but it's not infinite. But I'll leave further replies to someone more eloquent and already-angry - I like my day relatively politics-free.

____________________
I swim through a sea of stars,
without looking back to shore.
Faster than light, bending time.

Forever
Wherever

paulguy

Green Birdo
Level: 93

Posts: 1870/2294
EXP: 8033476
For next: 19334

Since: 09-14-07

From: Buffalo, NY

Since last post: 9.7 years
Last activity: 9.7 years

Posted on 10-28-11 06:04:57 AM

Link | Quote

Paulguy's Post configuration

Would be better if it didn't involve chantards.

Xkeeper is right with a lot of stuff, but it's really not greatly organized. There might be a root cause, but it seems that the majority of the people involved just don't even know what they're protesting. They're in a shitty situation and don't know what to do about it but get angry, but really don't understand why the situation is what itt is, so they're not united.

Overall, the idea is that a lot of people are getting pushed out of their previous cushy position of ignorance (another issue entirely, involving complacency, which got us in our current position) and thrown in to a hard time. They're responding and rightfully so, and certainly not surprising.

____________________

Friendbot2000
Member
Level: 51

Posts: 570/577
EXP: 950584
For next: 63354

Since: 06-17-09

Since last post: 10.5 years
Last activity: 10.5 years

Posted on 10-28-11 04:46:48 PM (last edited by Friendbot2000 at 10-28-11 01:49 PM)

Link | Quote

First off I want to apologize, I have been having a really bad week and Xk's post kind of put me over the edge.

Back to the topic at hand, I think that the rich do need to be taxed more, but I think it should be done in a different way than just income tax. The majority of these fat cats get their money from stock options. That is what companies award their CEO's as a "bonus". Make these stock options taxable and you have a ton of new income coming in and it doesn't raise the red flags of class warfare. Crying "Tax the rich, tax the rich" in the streets isn't going to solve anything. You need a specific agenda to bring to the table.

Protests HAVE to be organized in order to have an effect. Camping out in a public park with signs is not going to work. You need marches and boycotts en masse, everything that the civil rights movement employed. In my opinion their strategy for protesting just makes them appear as a nuisance and it is not giving them the public image they need in order to succeed at their goals. If the movement was better organized then people would listen.

Look at it this way, you say that no one knows this movement is going on? Well say you are John Doe and you have a job and a family to feed. Yes, you are angry at how things are handled with this economic crisis, but why should you endanger your job and in the end your family's livelihood to protest in the streets? Everyone is terrified at losing their job already due to many companies laying off people by the dozens. There is a very real fear at losing your job by leaving to protest. The majority of people are too scared to step out. There is too much on the line for them and that is why this movement won't get up off the ground unless they get some charisma and a better message.

e: misspelling

Gabu

Star Mario
Placeholder Ikachan until :effort: is found
Level: 172

Posts: 7178/9981
EXP: 68000197
For next: 102037

Since: 08-10-09

Pronouns: they/them, she/her
From: Santa Cruisin' USA

Since last post: 57 days
Last activity: 5 days

Posted on 10-28-11 06:24:28 PM

Link | Quote

Unions. They're not perfect, but they were made in the late 19th century to essentially ensure workers' safety rights and overall job stability by ensuring an employer doesn't just go and hire a shitton of new employees for much lower pay and fire the rest just to increase profit margins, as well as not going back on a contracted agreement between employer and employees on pension, rights, etc. Again, they're not perfect, and are prone to corruption, but as far as the working world goes, it ensures people like my dad that his employer won't attempt to screw him over by firing him months before retirement. Can they do that if he becomes lazy and unproductive? Yeah. But he works pretty hard just to feed the family, and because of his line of work, that is a pretty hard feat as it is now. Used to be somewhat easy to feed a four, five, six person family 20 years ago as a warehouseman. Now he's scraping just to feed three. Is it necessarily the employer's fault? I don't know that. I do know that I have to leave both for myself to become independent, and for them so they can save a little extra each month.

And I do know that prices for everything has gone up and up since the '90's, and the wealthiest people in the richest companies and corporations have been unnecessarily taking more and more of the lion's share through various options that they can get away with because it's perfectly legal, goes through tax loopholes, what have you. Between my dad who has worked hard all his life and his retirement plans being "get a part-time job", and a man born into a rich family who never had to work physically a day in his life, and just points at stock options (yeah I know it doesn't work exactly like that but point taken?) gets to retire in his '40's jumping various bought sea life on a water ski at one of two giant mansions.

Oh wow I totally got off topic.

But yeah one of the fundamental rights of unions (AFAIK) is that they can go out and strike if their employer retracts a promise made in a contract without consent (or an agreement is otherwise unreached), or refuses to give new rights that would otherwise ensure physical or fiscal safety (ex. doesn't pay enough).

And besides, even if an employee is still treated fairly at his or her job under union contract, they still can protest about corporate greed at a local Occupy X outside of work, if possible. If it's not necessarily their company they're mad at, it's the 1% who don't know or (more likely) care that they have enough goddamn money to retire 50 seniors into luxury right now, so they should stop being able to hoard all that money through low or no tax methods, get their heads out of their asses, and show a fucking heart for the working class.

Oh wow got off topic again. XD

It definitely true that the Occupy movements are largely unorganized to their detriment. Considering there is no 'leader' at each of the movements, that's one of the reasons why. And hell, there are extremists on both political sides who wants completely different things done, but there is a clear message that still stands whenever the Occupy movements are mentioned.

That those protesters are the 99%, and can't take the 1%'s greed and avarice anymore.

____________________

Xkeeper

Level: 263

Posts: 19703/25353
EXP: 297181510
For next: 1778943

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 6 hours

Posted on 10-29-11 08:02:20 PM

Link | Quote

The article speaks for itself:

Among those under arrest is evidently Scene reporter Jonathan Meador, who has been covering the protests. A fellow reporter asked the trooper arresting Meador if he really intended to lock up a journalist there to cover the events. According to the reporter, the trooper replied, "You want to be next?"

____________________

You might think that this layout is specifically EarthBound themed, but it might just be a reference to one of my favorite games.

Rena
I had one (1) message in Discord deleted and proceeded to make a huge, huge mess about how it was a violation of free speech and how moderators are supposed to be spam janitors and nobody should have the right to tell me not to talk about school shootings
Level: 135

Posts: 4360/5390
EXP: 29079529
For next: 255476

Since: 07-22-07

Pronouns: he/him/whatever
From: RSP Segment 6

Since last post: 343 days
Last activity: 343 days

Posted on 10-30-11 06:16:54 AM

Link | Quote

Post #4360 · 10-30-11 01:16:54 AM

Originally posted by paulguy
Xkeeper is right with a lot of stuff, but it's really not greatly organized. There might be a root cause, but it seems that the majority of the people involved just don't even know what they're protesting. They're in a shitty situation and don't know what to do about it but get angry, but really don't understand why the situation is what itt is, so they're not united.

That's what it looks like to me. I'm not even sure what exactly they're protesting. It just seems like "we're pissed off so we're gonna hang out here and be a bit of a nuisance".

Granted, I haven't researched it either - but I shouldn't really have to. If you're going to protest something, you should make it pretty clear what that thing is.

To me it seems like the big corporations have the country by the balls, and it's going to take a lot to fix that. Conspiracy theorists are always saying they run the world, as if by force or bribery or some such. I think it's just economics really. The government acts in the corporations' best interests not because of extortion or influence, but because doing otherwise risks damaging the already poor economy.

It also seems like one of the biggest problems, on all scales, is legal loopholes. I know plenty of people whose employers refuse to give them a full-time job, because that would have to come with various benefits - but will keep them part-time at 39.5 hours every week. Or as I experienced myself, giving only a couple hours in some weeks, so that their average hours per week is just low enough to be ineligible for benefits. Of course this happens on the mega-corp scales too. Some companies and rich folks exploit loopholes here and there to avoid ever paying any taxes.

Unfortunately, there's not a lot that can be done about it. Laws are much like the program code that runs things like game consoles. A set of rules that in theory prevents anyone from doing something they're not supposed to, such as tampering with system files, or screwing someone out of their money. The problem is there will always be several orders of magnitude more effort being putting into finding loopholes than into writing and fixing the rules. The people looking for exploits vastly outnumber and out-resource the people implementing the system - especially when they stand to make huge financial gains from their findings. So just as hackers always eventually manage to trick the machine into doing what they want, crooks will always eventually manage to find a way to do what the law intends to prevent without actually breaking it. The only real difference is one set of rules is enforced by police, the other by mathematics.

But hey, I'm just a 24-year-old geek who's never studied economics or law nor been outside Canada, so I could be completely wrong.

____________________

Programs

stuff goes here

Log out Shut down

Post #4360...[blag][Twitter][Freenet]

Xkeeper

Level: 263

Posts: 19707/25353
EXP: 297181510
For next: 1778943

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 6 hours

Posted on 10-30-11 05:13:21 PM

Link | Quote

Originally posted by Rena
Granted, I haven't researched it either

alt-h a

Occupy Wall Street is a people-powered movement that began on September 17, 2011 in Liberty Square in Manhattan’s Financial District, and has spread to over 100 cities in the United States and actions in over 1,500 cities globally. #ows is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations. The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to expose how the richest 1% of people are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future.

I even bolded it for you.

In today's Occupy news, Occupy Denver... well:

At about 3:30 p.m., the first round of violent interaction occurred on the side of the park opposite the tents. Officers moved in on the gathering with rubber bullet guns already out and pointed -- an increase in aggression compared to the beginnings of previous demonstrations. As protesters grouped to shout chants at the cops and form a barrier between the officers and the camp, police opened fire on the group and openly sprayed tear gas at any occupiers standing in the way. One protester, Andrew Cleres, was shot from a tree with an entire round of rubber bullets while taking photos of the scene.

____________________

You might think that this layout is specifically EarthBound themed, but it might just be a reference to one of my favorite games.

FieryIce

Luigi
Level: 119

Posts: 3259/4161
EXP: 18761088
For next: 168203

Since: 12-18-08

From: Chicago

Since last post: 190 days
Last activity: 4 days

Posted on 10-30-11 09:15:28 PM

Link | Quote

Apparently, the slogan "We are the 99%" isn't clear enough?

Rena, I don't think their message could be any clearer.

Lyskar
12210

-The Chaos within trumps the Chaos without-
Level: 192

Posts: 10449/12211
EXP: 99334655
For next: 538916

Since: 07-03-07

From: 52-2-88-7

Since last post: 7.4 years
Last activity: 7.3 years

Posted on 10-30-11 10:57:42 PM

Link | Quote

Stats

Time/Date
10-30-11 04:57:42 PM
Posts
10449
Days Here
1580
Level
151

Metal_Man88's Post

It's pretty simple. It's been so long since the more active, turbulent days of the 60's that people don't know what protests are anymore. So when one occurs, they don't know how to read the message nor do they get if it's important at all.

____________________

Life is not an either-or proposition.

Eisnaught - SSQ² - Mobius Roleplay - SSS

Xkeeper

Level: 263

Posts: 19709/25353
EXP: 297181510
For next: 1778943

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 6 hours

Posted on 10-31-11 03:39:00 PM

Link | Quote

Originally posted by FieryIce
image

Haha, that's one of the more appropriate images I've seen in a while.

____________________

You might think that this layout is specifically EarthBound themed, but it might just be a reference to one of my favorite games.

Tyty

Level: 165

Posts: 8348/8599
EXP: 58681476
For next: 254205

Since: 07-07-07

Since last post: 9.8 years
Last activity: 9.8 years

Posted on 10-31-11 08:16:35 PM

Link | Quote

The protesters where I am are stupid though.

There's two groups, one protesting how the city isn't helping the homeless protesting by camping in a park, and one... well, at city hall. The park protesters are mostly homeless people, with other people mixed in. They have clearly stated their protest reason, why they are not moving, they are remaining peaceful, and they are hoping to get a meeting with city council soon.

The other protestors were asked their opinion, and how it related to their occupy protests. They responded "No comment" because the media is too oppressive.

They were actually asked, and they chose not to respond. I don't know if they were paranoid about having their words twisted or what, but really, they had a chance to state stuff in a calm civilized manner that would get an appropriate response, and they didn't, and their reason made them look like nothing more than mere hippies.

They're stupid.

____________________

Xkeeper

Level: 263

Posts: 19777/25353
EXP: 297181510
For next: 1778943

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 6 hours

Posted on 11-10-11 03:07:49 AM

Link | Quote

You might think that this layout is specifically EarthBound themed, but it might just be a reference to one of my favorite games.

Enig
Member
Level: 34

Posts: 57/240
EXP: 234666
For next: 18985

Since: 06-08-11

From: CITY HATRACK

Since last post: 9.8 years
Last activity: 9.9 years

Posted on 11-12-11 01:42:47 AM

Link | Quote

My stance is that the working class, elderly, and overall society-type people protesting is a-ok, but the college grad hipster wearing a Fawkes mask- with no clue as to what it actually represents, its' history, or its' inspiration beyond reruns of V for Vendetta on G4- complaining about debts, even though they now can have a dedicated job now to fix that now that they're out of college? No, let them leave. The real middle class needs to protest, not their bandwagoning selves.

____________________
Cyber razor cut, sir?
To be this good takes AGES.
To be this good takes Duke Nukem.

Xkeeper

Level: 263

Posts: 19799/25353
EXP: 297181510
For next: 1778943

Since: 07-03-07

Pronouns: they/them/????????

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 6 hours

Posted on 11-12-11 04:49:17 AM (last edited by Xkeeper at 11-12-11 01:49 AM)

Link | Quote

You seem to have a really hard time accepting the fact that a symbol has been adopted for an entirely different purpose. I advise you to stay away from Macs lest you end up going on a tirade about how the Feature key squiggle is actually something totally unrelated.

____________________

You might think that this layout is specifically EarthBound themed, but it might just be a reference to one of my favorite games.

Register - Login
Views: 99868362	Main - Memberlist - Active users - Calendar - Wiki - IRC Chat - Online users Ranks - Rules/FAQ - Stats - Latest Posts - Color Chart - Smilies	05-04-22 06:28:57 PM

Query execution time:	0.079141 seconds
Script execution time:	0.043490 seconds
Total render time:	0.122631 seconds