FieryIce
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This is terrible D:
An Oregon woman who tried to circumcise her 3-month-old son at home after reading the Old Testament and watching YouTube videos has been sentenced to five years of probation.
Keemonta Peterson pleaded guilty to first-degree criminal mistreatment. The 30-year-old Portland woman must also undergo mental health treatment.
Peterson called 911 and the boy was rushed to a hospital last October after her botched effort left the infant bleeding uncontrollably and in intense pain. A prosecutor says he has fully recovered.
The Oregonian reports the boy and his three siblings are in the state's care, although Peterson can see them under supervision.
Multnomah County Circuit Judge Eric Bergstrom told Peterson on Monday that "the reality is you love your children and had absolutely no intent to harm your child."
Why must people still insist on circumcisions? How cruel of her 
I heard San Francisco was trying to ban them altogether. |
Orlandu
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| Posted on 08-16-11 09:23:52 PM (last edited by Orlandu at 08-19-11 03:54 AM) |
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 |  |  |  | Originally posted by Terra
Originally posted by FieryIce
Why must people still insist on circumcisions? How cruel of her
This.
They seem incredibly pointless to me. "Hey, let's make your penis look like this instead of that!" I know some religions (like Judaism) do it, but I don't get why some people circumcise their kids just so they're circumcised.
It has nothing to do with appearance or religion. Both of my sons are circumcised.
1 Many older men, who have bladder or prostate gland problems, also develop difficulties with their foreskins due to their surgeon's handling, cleaning, and using instruments. Some of these patients will need circumcising. Afterwards it is often astonishing to find some who have never ever seen their glans (knob) exposed before!
2 Some older men develop cancer of the penis - about 1 in 1000 - fairly rare, but tragic if you or your son are in that small statistic. Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection.
3 Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. Surely that alone makes it worth doing?
4 Protection against HIV and AIDS. Another British Medical Journal article in May 2000 suggested that circumcised men are 8 times less likely to contract the HIV virus. (It is very important here to say that the risk is still far too high and that condoms and safe sex must be used - this applies also to preventing cancer of the cervix in women who have several partners.)
A BBC television programme in November 2000 showed two Ugandan tribes across the valley from one another. One practised circumcision and had very little AIDS, whereas, it was common in the other tribe, who then also started circumcising. This programme showed how the infection thrived in the lining of the foreskin, making it much easier to pass on.
5 As with HIV, so some protection exists against other sexually transmitted infections. Accordingly, if a condom splits or comes off, there is some protection for the couple. However, the only safe sex is to stick to one partner or abstain.
6 Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.
7 Balanitis is an unpleasant, often recurring, inflammation of the glans. It is quite common and can be prevented by circumcision.
8 Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely.
But doing it at home is stupid. You risk infection, incorrectly cutting, or cutting the wrong thing. That's what doctors are for these days. Most children are over it in a few hours and within a few days all swelling and redness goes away. ____________________ |  |  |  |  |
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 Ouch, that poor child.  What kind of Youtube videos did she look up? DIY circumcision? 
I'm surprised that list doesn't mention phimosis. That would probably be reason enough for some parents.
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FieryIce
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Oh dear, here we go:
1 Many older men, who have bladder or prostate gland problems, also develop difficulties with their foreskins due to their surgeon's handling, cleaning, and using instruments. Some of these patients will need circumcising. Afterwards it is often astonishing to find some who have never ever seen their glans (knob) exposed before!
That seems like a problem unrelated to a lack of circumcision...
2 Some older men develop cancer of the penis - about 1 in 1000 - fairly rare, but tragic if you or your son are in that small statistic. Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection.
The odds of this happening, and therefore the supposed benefit of circumcision, are statistically insignificant.
3 Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. Surely that alone makes it worth doing?
There's a vaccine for that.
4 Protection against HIV and AIDS. Another British Medical Journal article in May 2000 suggested that circumcised men are 8 times less likely to contract the HIV virus. (It is very important here to say that the risk is still far too high and that condoms and safe sex must be used - this applies also to preventing cancer of the cervix in women who have several partners.)
A BBC television programme in November 2000 showed two Ugandan tribes across the valley from one another. One practised circumcision and had very little AIDS, whereas, it was common in the other tribe, who then also started circumcising. This programme showed how the infection thrived in the lining of the foreskin, making it much easier to pass on.
This is still up for debate, there have been other studies contradicting it.
6 Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.
The opposite is quite true, as well.
7 Balanitis is an unpleasant, often recurring, inflammation of the glans. It is quite common and can be prevented by circumcision.
This only happens if you don't clean yourself well.
8 Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely.
Probably same as above...
I feel like it's kind of a big decision for a parent to take over his son's life. An irreversible one (well, naturally irreversible), sadly.
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Kles
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| Posted on 08-16-11 10:17:38 PM (last edited by Kles at 08-16-11 07:18 PM) |
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Originally posted by Orlandu
1 Many older men, who have bladder or prostate gland problems, also develop difficulties with their foreskins due to their surgeon's handling, cleaning, and using instruments. Some of these patients will need circumcising. Afterwards it is often astonishing to find some who have never ever seen their glans (knob) exposed before!
2 Some older men develop cancer of the penis - about 1 in 1000 - fairly rare, but tragic if you or your son are in that small statistic. Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection.
3 Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. Surely that alone makes it worth doing?
4 Protection against HIV and AIDS. Another British Medical Journal article in May 2000 suggested that circumcised men are 8 times less likely to contract the HIV virus. (It is very important here to say that the risk is still far too high and that condoms and safe sex must be used - this applies also to preventing cancer of the cervix in women who have several partners.)
A BBC television programme in November 2000 showed two Ugandan tribes across the valley from one another. One practised circumcision and had very little AIDS, whereas, it was common in the other tribe, who then also started circumcising. This programme showed how the infection thrived in the lining of the foreskin, making it much easier to pass on.
5 As with HIV, so some protection exists against other sexually transmitted infections. Accordingly, if a condom splits or comes off, there is some protection for the couple. However, the only safe sex is to stick to one partner or abstain.
6 Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.
7 Balanitis is an unpleasant, often recurring, inflammation of the glans. It is quite common and can be prevented by circumcision.
8 Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely.
Practically all of these things you listed can be fixed by remotely decent hygiene and safe sex. Doing such drastic preventative "medicine" when there are very real drawbacks that can be a bigger problem then the minor problems that could arise is moronic at best and a rights violation at worse. |
Gabu
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I don't know. I'm thinking that circumcision is okay so long as someone professional deals with the procedure. A baby can be squeaky clean all the time and still get an infection because certain bacteria got into his penis.
Though yeah, it should really be up to the child whether or not they want to be circumcised, though a baby is far too young to make that kind of decision, where I can see the overall problem lying in when it comes to health versus the religious reason. Grown men will sometimes have their own penis circumcised in the event where the foreskin is causing that area to be unsanitary despite cleaning it, and I feel like it's their decision to do so.
In this case though, the line's crossed. The mother is not a professional in the procedure, so she shouldn't have made the circumcision. She definitely put her son's health at risk by doing that.
Basically, it's impossible to keep the glans clean all the time, and even if it looks clean, the humidity and sweat makes it easy for bacteria to proliferate. ____________________  |
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Kles
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Originally posted by Gabu
I don't know. I'm thinking that circumcision is okay so long as someone professional deals with the procedure. A baby can be squeaky clean all the time and still get an infection because certain bacteria got into his penis.
Though yeah, it should really be up to the child whether or not they want to be circumcised, though a baby is far too young to make that kind of decision, where I can see the overall problem lying in when it comes to health versus the religious reason. Grown men will sometimes have their own penis circumcised in the event where the foreskin is causing that area to be unsanitary despite cleaning it, and I feel like it's their decision to do so.
In this case though, the line's crossed. The mother is not a professional in the procedure, so she shouldn't have made the circumcision. She definitely put her son's health at risk by doing that.
Basically, it's impossible to keep the glans clean all the time, and even if it looks clean, the humidity and sweat makes it easy for bacteria to proliferate.
A lot of things "could" happen. What is with the constant deprivation of children because of the off-chance of a problem? We deprive children of playground equipment because they "could" get injured. We deprive children of contact with other people because they "could" be pedophiles. We deprive children of all their body parts because they "could" get infected? Come on.
You know what could result as a result of a circumcision? A lot of very bad things, far worse than any hygiene problem. Just like the child who grows up without facing any danger in their life grows up to be scared of everything. Just like the child who grows up in isolation has difficulty coping with society and other people. It's seriously about time that we stop going to extremes in the name of "protecting children" from vague, unlikely risks and realize that we're actually hurting our children, and a lot. This is yet another one of those things. |
Keitaro
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| Posted on 08-17-11 05:59:10 AM (last edited by Keitaro at 08-17-11 03:08 AM) |
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They are DEPRIVED of foreskin?
honestly.
what.
seriously.
what.
I've seen some stupid shit on this board, but this thread honestly takes the cake.
I was circumcised as an infant. Ask me if I give a single damn in hindsight that I don't have some unsightly, dangly disease trap at the end of my junk. Go on, ask me. (pro tip: I don't) The fact that any single person could get butt-hurt over this is absolutely impossible for me to grasp.
good hygiene and safe sex may HELP prevent a lot of these things, but circumcision is also a reasonable and arguably even responsible step in doing so. Honestly, parents generally know what is best for their children medically at that age, and I absolutely believe in good faith that mine made a very informed decision to do so for such medical reasons.
Answer me this: does being circumcised honestly deprive the child of any quality of life?
is it preventing them from experiencing and enjoying the same things as those who are uncircumcised?
the answer is no, and if you think otherwise, your opinion is wrong.
That article Kles linked to is also hilarious. I have never had any issues with orgasming or premature ejaculation. But since we like studies and statistics so much, how does this sound: I get 200% more ass because my junk doesn't look weird.
edit: oh, yeah, and the woman in this news article is crazy etc. don't do that |
Kles
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| Posted on 08-17-11 12:07:05 PM (last edited by Kles at 08-17-11 09:11 AM) |
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Originally posted by Keitaro
lot of line breaks
Honestly, your post is just a ton of opinions put forward as facts, and a lot of personal anecdotes that you're applying as a blanket statement. "Those studies are hilarious because those things don't happen to me!" Doesn't that sound wrong to you? |
FieryIce
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Originally posted by Keitaro
is it preventing them from experiencing and enjoying the same things as those who are uncircumcised?
the answer is no, and if you think otherwise, your opinion is wrong.
Oh dear god, you don't know what you're missing, and sadly, you never will. 
That article Kles linked to is also hilarious. I have never had any issues with orgasming or premature ejaculation. But since we like studies and statistics so much, how does this sound: I get 200% more ass because my junk doesn't look weird.
Well, guess what? The opposite is 200% true for me! And trust me, a lot of people do think that circumcised -> weird. It's not even natural, after all.  |
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Please, you all have to consider that those who are circumcised can't imagine what life is like with foreskin, and those who weren't circumcised can't imagine life without it. It's very difficult for either side to change their opinion of it because it is how it has always been. It's a worldview, and you're not going to alter it with an internet discussion, so please try not to get into a big debate over this.
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2153 I think the bigger, underlying problem is that it's an unnecessary surgery that is performed without consent. The benefits often put forth are usually things like "it's easier to clean" "less chance of bacteria" "the lack of the extra skin somehow is supposed to prevent aids/hiv (I call bullshit on this actually)" "no cervical cancer", and all of those things are addressable through hygiene and certain precautions taken during sex. In addition, those points don't really have much substance to them; you might as well be telling me "cola can clean a rusty car battery", it holds just as much insignificance.
I wash my equipment obsessively whenever I'm in the shower, so I could easily have been left uncircumcised and not had any issue, aside from maybe being an abomination or some other equally silly claim. At the same time, you'll have kids who have been circumcised who think a "shower" means to step into the bathroom and spray Axe on themselves for a whole 10 minutes. Are you seriously about to tell me that they're not as susceptible to having a grimy wanker and spreading cervical cancer simply because they lack an inch of skin?
Honestly, keeping your spout clean is just like keeping your ass clean. If you don't wipe your cheeks after unloading, then you'll be more at risk for infections and bacterial problems. If you don't wash your hands regularly, you'll be more at risk for picking up diseases and other bad things whenever you go to eat, or touch your face. I didn't need my hands amputated, or my butt cheeks removed in order to "help reduce my risk for health problems", since I know I need to keep those things clean. I shouldn't have had to have my delicate parts tampered with when they didn't need to be, especially if the decision wasn't up to me.
Plus, circumcisions don't always go as well as you think. Some guys are left with really ugly scarring and other such blemishes, and there's really nothing they can do about that, and the worst part was that it was a decision based off of a fad, and it wasn't their decision in the first place. It's like if every baby had to have a tattoo for identification purposes (which is funny, because my vet does this, our dogs have tattoos for this exact purpose). At the time of the tattooing, maybe peace signs and ying-yangs were popular. 20 years later, those things are out of style, and the person is left with this really ugly tattoo that wasn't even their choice in the first place. Maybe they hate ying-yangs!
Although that is slightly different from circumcision, it's the same principle of undergoing a trivial but still mostly-permanent body modification without consent.
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Stigandr
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I think the debate in this thread is missing the most important detail.
She had no professional training and did this in her own home.
What.
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