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Jul - General Chat - Religious beliefs, philosophy, etc. New poll - New thread - New reply
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Acey

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Posted on 07-27-11 11:58:34 PM Link | Quote

Okay, before I start this thread, I'd like to lay down one rule: NO INTENTIONALLY CAUSING DRAMA.

I'm also not sure this is the right forum for this...mods, if you can think of a better forum, go ahead and move it.

Anyway, I think we're all mature enough to share our religious beliefs (or lack thereof). Myself, I identify as a deist, though technically I probably qualify as an agnostic. (For those who don't know what deism is, the Wikipedia article is pretty informative.) Basically, I believe that God created the universe and such, but hasn't really played an active role in it since then. I'm also of the mind that proving God's existence (or nonexistence, for that matter) is, for all intents and purposes, impossible (hence me technically qualifying as agnostic).

Afterlife-wise, I do believe in Heaven (or at least some form of positive afterlife), and I think the vast majority of people go there. I have a lot of trouble with the concept of Hell and such, but I do think it exists; however, I also believe that only truly evil people go there when they die. I also believe in ghosts, but am not very superstitious aside from that. (In fact, I believe in ghosts for more or less logical reasons--if souls exist, which I believe they do, it only makes sense to me that some of them would stick around on Earth for whatever reason.)

(Note: I capitalize Heaven and Hell because I view them as proper nouns.)

I also think religion itself is a neutral force, and can be used for both good and bad. A friend of mine once said "There are no bad religions, only bad people," which I pretty much agree with (not counting, like, cults and such). I lean towards being pro-religion, because I do think some people really do benefit from having something like that in their lives. I also try not to judge people on their religious beliefs (or lack thereof), even if it's hard sometimes.

Additionally, I believe mankind is neutral in nature--there are both good people, bad people, and people who fall somewhere in between, and I tend to think experiences can shape that pretty heavily (unless someone is, like, a sociopath or something like that).

Finally, I don't think that belief in some form of higher power is in any way incompatible with science. (My grandpa was a devout Christian who also happened to be a pretty well-renowned scientist in his field, which kind of proves that they can, in fact, coexist, IMO.)

For the record, I was raised Episcopalian (it's a denomination of Christianity that, in terms of beliefs and such, kind of falls between Catholicism and Protestantism...kinda confusing in that respect, but most of the Episcopalians I've met have been some of the most open-minded Christians I know, so I'm pretty cool with it).

I've come to have my personal belief set simply because it's what makes the most sense to me.

TL;DR: I am a relatively open-minded deist-agnostic hybrid who believes in a positive afterlife, science, and the neutrality of mankind.

So here's the question: What do YOU believe?

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Posted on 07-28-11 12:12:16 AM (last edited by Sofi at 07-27-11 09:14 PM) Link | Quote
I just don't have a religion at all. :J

I don't believe in anything but myself. That's really all there is.

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Posted on 07-28-11 12:14:29 AM (last edited by Bagel at 07-27-11 09:14 PM) Link | Quote
It is my opinion that religion has caused much more trouble than it is worth, is a completely human creation forged out of wishful thinking and/or speculation, and is a waste of resources. It divides people more than it brings them together, in my experience.

What I do believe in is trying to be a decent human being while I'm here. Eventually, I'll die. If I leave any kind of legacy behind, that's enough for me; I do not believe in any kind of afterlife. Some people find this a depressing way to look at things, but whatever.

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Posted on 07-28-11 12:16:08 AM (last edited by Metal_Man88 at 07-27-11 09:23 PM) Link | Quote
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I am an atheist. I do not believe in any God. I do not believe there is a God. I believe only in physics and chaos.

I believe there is a physics-related explanation for any 'afterlife', most likely involving extra dimensions, quantum theory, and transference of freed energy. That said, the most this really results in as far as I believe is the occasional after-images or traces of dead people, and/or the occasional inexplicable phenomenon. No real afterlife, just the reuse of every part of any dead person--including the information that once made up their mind. Split up into a million pieces and scattered across reality, sometimes reincorporated into bits of new people, sometimes never again.

People can be whatever they want in nature, but it is almost always selfish. Trust no one ever.

Religion is a cultural meme that arises whenever humans exist in quantity. It unto itself is just a means to an end. That end can be good, evil, or neither, but it is not sentient nor can it protect itself from being abused or even erased. The fickleness of history trashes one religion and protects another entirely at random, without any real care for what is 'right' or 'good.'

Belief in a higher power need not conflict with science. However, I believe science will eventually reveal said 'higher power' to be itself--that is, that all things can be explained by science, if it is taken far enough. Of course, this is only in the hypothetical sense, as it is infinite and will take forever to explain everything. Though with every era a new breakthrough erodes old beliefs, revealing science to be armed with superior evidence.

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Posted on 07-28-11 01:09:20 AM Link | Quote
Atheist here.

I'm from a Catholic family, but I myself was raised without religion. I prefer to look to science for my answers, even if science will never answer them.

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Posted on 07-28-11 01:35:11 AM Link | Quote

I'm honestly surprised no one has slammed my beliefs yet.

I've admittedly had some really bad experiences with that kind of thing (mainly extremely militant atheists who think the very idea that there might possibly be a god is stupid...I've met a ton of those, sadly), so I've been paranoid.



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Posted on 07-28-11 01:40:23 AM Link | Quote
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There is nothing to be gained for attacking other people's beliefs. I have even thoroughly read the bible, studying its precepts. I have also looked into the Koran.

Of course, I am used to shocking religious people with my admission of non-faith. And/or batting away religious recruiters trying to debate my faith. There's a whole kettle of fish there, complete with my specific beliefs about how the bible is, but I consider them offensive to Christians and don't bring them up unless specifically asked about them.

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Posted on 07-28-11 01:52:02 AM Link | Quote
There's some mysteries only He can explain. And by He I mean the space demon that rains candy and hellfire to us all.

I don't follow Christianity outright, but it's enough of a guide for me to figure out what is right and wrong.

Plus, there are some things that right now are so unexplainable that 'God did it' is the only logical conclusion that can be made right now, possibly for many years to come or perhaps forever. The events leading up to the Big Bang, or rather, just where all the material for everything in existence came from. If it was from a previous universe, then where did THAT material originate from? Unless it was something along the lines of atomic structures forming into a very dense core that eventually blew up. But even then, where did the structures for atoms come from, and for that matter where did THOSE structures come from. In essence, where did all matter of the universe come from if, before anything Big Bang, there was nothing?

I also believe that the origin of life billions of years ago was more or less an act of God. I mean I know there are rules that say what constitutes where life comes from, but how are those rules made? And even more, what about life that seem to defy those rules or live in the very extremes?

But I think the one absolute mystery of life is this:

MAGNETS. How do they work?

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Posted on 07-28-11 01:55:17 AM Link | Quote
I'd pretty much be considered an atheist, although I grew up in a pretty much nonreligious family anyway (father was Catholic and mother was Orthodox but neither were actively practicing)

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Posted on 07-28-11 09:28:19 AM Link | Quote
Agnostic.

There might very well exist a god, but at the moment we have no way to prove it, so there's no reason to care about it for me.

Simple as that really.

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Posted on 07-28-11 10:12:29 AM Link | Quote
A quote:
"" ~
Originally posted by Girlydragon
Agnostic.

There might very well exist a god, but at the moment we have no way to prove it, so there's no reason to care about it for me.

Simple as that really.

I'm pretty much this, but like to talk about it!

I was raised in a fully atheist family; my grandmother dumped religion when she was ten and I never had anybody force religious beliefs on me. (I was told that "some people believe there is a god and it's their choice"). I only started taking religion seriously a few years back when I started seeing it a lot on the internet.

Now, I haven't read the Bible or similar (other people already did that for me), but there's a lot of things I don't understand, not about religion, but about religious people. There's people who are completely absorbed in their religion and refuse to believe in anything else, that I can understand, to an extent. But then there's people who... claim to be religious, but respect other religions, side completely with science and understand atheism. People like that baffle me, because they have the mental capability to just drop their religion, but they still choose to believe in it. That includes some people here which I'm not trying to attack, yet I can't help but ask, why?

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Posted on 07-28-11 10:51:44 AM (last edited by Mike at 07-28-11 07:57 AM) Link | Quote
Well I don't want to stir up any problems in this thread so I'll keep my answers an replies short and honestly bitter.
I am a -regular- christian by choice, I don't believe in screaming your head off like those pentascostals do while singing, or some stupid black or white baptist preacher has to scream likes he's at fucking football tail gate party.

I only go by instinct and only the one true creator who put all of us here, he gave us free will to do what he want but he also gave us a choice, Good vs Darkness.

Hell we are not fucking perfect at all, nobody is, there always be somebody to one up us or out rank us for the time being.
Nothing is permanent or stays the same forever without a change of the direction the wind will blow you to.

I am not getting into the creation of the world thing shit, because everytime it is brought up,somebody will always troll, and the end somebody or the whole board will end up in a flame war status all because of different views and aspects of different life styles.

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Posted on 07-28-11 01:49:25 PM (last edited by Orlandu at 07-28-11 10:50 AM) Link | Quote
I am a Christian in the sense that I believe in God and that he sacrificed his son Jesus that we could be reconciled to Him. What I don't believe in is religion and man trying to make God's will into something they can control. The early church had it right, but then the Romans got involved and messed everything up. Sure it helped spread the Gospel of Jesus, but it also brought about Roman Catholicism, clergy, ordered worship, and pretty much every rule and regulation that people know today as standard "church". I could go on and on but I'll stop there.

I believe in heaven and hell. Heaven isn't some place you can simply walk into, as Boromir would say. While being a good person is... good, it won't get you entrance. The only way you will have eternal life with Jesus is to accept him as God and to become part of his body (the church). Not doing so is what hell is for. But it says in Romans that "every knee will bow, every tongue will acknowledge God." This means that after Armageddon, the Rapture, end of the world, etc. everyone will have a chance again to accept God. Only those that truly refuse him then will be eternally in hell (the lake of fire).

As for creation, I believe God made everything. How or when? We'll find that out when we meet him. Why argue about something that doesn't affect how we live with each other? Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love God and to love each other. He didn't say you have to think exactly the same and believe everything the same as everyone else, he gave us free will for a reason.

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Posted on 07-28-11 02:01:01 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Girlydragon
Agnostic.

There might very well exist a god, but at the moment we have no way to prove it, so there's no reason to care about it for me.

Simple as that really.

Quote for my shared view on the subject in question.

I was raised in a family that did not really talk much about beliefs at all, and I never really went to church unless it was some sort of school event. I learned about Christianity first and than later the more scientific standpoint. For a long time after that I identified myself as an Atheist since it seemed to be the most intelligent option in my own view. It was not until later when I started questioning it that I came to understand that (in my own opinion) that scientific, while proving some logic solution(s), lacked a lot of hard evidence itself. So after that I pretty much said fuck it and just believe what can be proven with logic or evidence.

After life? I don't really care about that, there is no way I can know what it is until I get there, therefor, thinking about it serves no purpose for me. I'd say it would have to be pretty bad to be worse than this life though.

There being a god? Yeah while I don't really believe or disbelieve it, I must admit that if there is one, he/she is most likely rather bored and/or likes to troll a lot.

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Posted on 07-28-11 03:50:21 PM Link | Quote

Originally posted by Sanky
But then there's people who... claim to be religious, but respect other religions, side completely with science and understand atheism. People like that baffle me, because they have the mental capability to just drop their religion, but they still choose to believe in it. That includes some people here which I'm not trying to attack, yet I can't help but ask, why?

It's because they believe what they believe. They're still religious, they just don't have their heads shoved up their asses about it.

Honestly, I get the impression that you're saying religious people are dumb for believing in their religions, and that kinda bugs me. A lot.

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Posted on 07-28-11 04:02:43 PM Link | Quote
So what you're saying Sanky is that peeps who are religious in any way shouldn't or otherwise can't have any sort of mental capacity to embrace science, be atheist, understand other religions or the like? Or are you saying people who are religious posers just completely baffle you?

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Posted on 07-28-11 04:18:39 PM (last edited by Karis at 07-28-11 02:15 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Auxiliatrix
Okay, before I start this thread, I'd like to lay down one rule: NO INTENTIONALLY CAUSING DRAMA.

Please keep it going. Sanky provides a valid question, no need to attack him about it. In which I can provide a rather simple but long running answer. Although, my answer is based in my own views anyway, so who knows?

Being able to understand religions and the scientific explanation simply gives you the option to pick which one you agree with the most. Religion and such is often thrown around with the big questions, but one should note that each one also comes with it's own life style. If you understand all of them, you can not only pick the view you think is the best/agree with the most, you also pick what life style you want to live with.

Another thing when taking this argument in particular is actually the agnostic standpoint. You can't logically prove the big questions of "is there an after life?" (and such) either from a religious or a scientific view. Therefor, there can not be one that is "wrong" and one that is "right", or rather, if there is then you can't prove it. By that logic alone, no view is wrong or right, but are rather rounded down to ideals.

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Posted on 07-28-11 04:20:05 PM Link | Quote
A quote:
"" ~
I can't word things properly to save my life which is exactly why I included the disclaimer that I'm not attacking anybody. Bleh. Sorry if it sounded like that. Honestly.

My point was, while I'm curious about religion (deism) the major question to me is *why* even do so. Which is what I asked. So, yeah. for example, Orlandu described his beliefs very nicely and I fully respect them -- but the one thing that still is baffling me is that I don't have any reason to trust them. Maybe I'm just dumb. Again, I apologize.

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Posted on 07-28-11 04:22:40 PM Link | Quote

Originally posted by Karis
Originally posted by Auxiliatrix
Okay, before I start this thread, I'd like to lay down one rule: NO INTENTIONALLY CAUSING DRAMA.

Please keep it going. Sanky provides a valid question, no need to attack him about it. In which I can provide a rather simple but long running answer. Although, my answer is based in my own views anyway, so who knows?

Being able to understand religions and the scientific explanation simply gives you the option to pick which one you agree with the most. Religion and such is often thrown around with the big questions, but one should note that each one also comes with it's own life style. If you understand all of them, you can not only pick the view you think is the best/agree with the most, you also pick what life style you want to live with.

Another thing when taking this argument in particular is actually the agnostic standpoint. You can't logically prove the big questions of "is there an after life?" (and such) either from a religious or a scientific view. Therefor, there can not be one that is "wrong" and one that is "right", or rather, if there is then you can't prove it. By that logic alone, no view is wrong or right, but are rather rounded down to ideals.

Wasn't trying to attack him. Sorry 'bout that.

And Sanky, I think I'm the dumb one here...I completely misinterpreted your question. I personally think that religion is really a good thing for some people and really a bad thing for other people, and kind of a neutral thing for yet more people. I really think it all depends on the person, their outlook on life, and even their life experiences.

That was probably poorly worded. In my defense, I haven't had my daily caffeine yet.

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Posted on 07-28-11 04:27:39 PM (last edited by Mike at 07-28-11 01:53 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Sanky
I can't word things properly to save my life which is exactly why I included the disclaimer that I'm not attacking anybody. Bleh. Sorry if it sounded like that. Honestly.

My point was, while I'm curious about religion (deism) the major question to me is *why* even do so. Which is what I asked. So, yeah. for example, Orlandu described his beliefs very nicely and I fully respect them -- but the one thing that still is baffling me is that I don't have any reason to trust them. Maybe I'm just dumb. Again, I apologize.



I understand what you said before and even now,I rephrase what I said in a more polite way.
If I have free will and I choose to do right by people and not critize or look down upon people or put them underneath me wether I am right or wrong in any situations.
I am going to try and follow and do what jesus did in my own personal way.
Also when I die, I want my soul to finally be at peace and I can receive the answers about my life I have no answers to or even the real reason behind life.

Before I leave, I want god to tell me one on one at his side, why my life is much more harder than anyone elses I know and why they put me down for no reason, even when I have done any nothing harmfull to them.

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Jul - General Chat - Religious beliefs, philosophy, etc. New poll - New thread - New reply


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