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05-03-22 07:08:16 AM
Jul - Computers and Technology - Most useful general purpose programming language New poll - New thread - New reply
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Which language would you recommend a medical school student learn?
My boyfriend has to learn a programming language and he's undecided as to which one. He might have to create not-too-complicated medical software that will do calculations, work with databases, etc...
C
 
13.3%, 2 votes
C++
 
20.0%, 3 votes
Perl
 
13.3%, 2 votes
Java
 
26.7%, 4 votes
Other
 
26.7%, 4 votes
Multi-voting is disabled. 15 users have voted.

FieryIce

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Posted on 07-12-11 04:27:17 PM Link | Quote
Most of it is explained in the briefing ... A while back he took classes in C, C++, and Java, but he remembers very little now.

Your help would be appreciated.
paulguy

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Posted on 07-12-11 11:46:28 PM Link | Quote
Paulguy's Post configuration
I'd personally say perl, if most of his stuff is going to be just messing with databases and data in a database, especially if a lot of the stuff is in strings, C will be hell. I've usually found scripting languages to be more useful for stuff like this, since speed isn't a top priority (It should be fast enough for pretty much anything but heavy math operations dealing with huge blobs of data) and they tend to be able to produce something quicker and easier but still of quality.

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Peardian

  
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Posted on 07-12-11 11:54:35 PM Link | Quote
I don't know anything about Perl, but Java is pretty flexible. I don't know how it handles database stuff, though.

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FieryIce

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Posted on 07-13-11 12:49:55 AM Link | Quote
Thanks people! He chose Perl; from what we gathered from paulguy and another person (on Gaia Online) who told him that either Perl or Python would be very useful for genomics, especially since speed is not an issue, it seems Perl would be the best choice, and the most convenient one as a few of his labmates use it as well.

Anyway, it's not like there's a clear "bad" choice as all the languages would be able to accomplish what he wants.
Lyskar
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Posted on 07-13-11 06:13:11 AM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
C++ is more general, at least, it can just pick up whatever features you need while retaining core concepts that make it easy to use, once you learn it anyway.

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Posted on 07-13-11 07:52:10 PM Link | Quote
2135
I was about to choose Java, because that's all anyone teaches anymore, and despite it being terrible in every way shape and form, it's easy to learn because everyone teaches it, and it works across a lot of different platforms (Windows, Macintosh, Linux, whatever can run the JRE), and for simple business-like applications, it actually may work fine.

I personally prefer C/C++, but that's just because I've been coding for years and years and have had time to get comfortable with it, to the point where I can afford to not have the environment hold my hand every step of the way like Java and .NET.

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Posted on 07-14-11 02:43:32 AM Link | Quote
Post #4221 · 07-13-11 09:43:32 PM
Java is a good language, it's just bogged down by design-by-committee enterprisey types who want to add 3 different implementations of everything including the kitchen sink to it, getting XML involved somehow and overcomplicating it as much as possible. (Have you seen the Android SDK? "Overcomplicated" doesn't begin to describe it. That shit makes NASA look like CS 101.) That and its garbage collector always seems to be a bit lacking, probably because its everything-is-an-object nature creates boatloads of temporary objects for it to clean up all the time...

I'd be tempted to argue for Lua. It's not really widely used outside the game industry, but it's a great general-purpose language. It's simple, lightweight, and powerful, and there are modules available for probably the majority of tasks you want to do, so it's good for quickly tossing together an app. Need a GUI? There's a GTK module. Need networking? There's a socket module. You can really write entire programs in it, and it's very good at making complex tasks simple and easy.

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Posted on 07-14-11 07:00:50 AM Link | Quote
2136
Originally posted by Rena
That and its garbage collector always seems to be a bit lacking, probably because its everything-is-an-object nature creates boatloads of temporary objects for it to clean up all the time...

Whoever thought it was a good idea to delete variables by dereferencing them should be revoked of any and all access to anything related to coding. Seriously, in any other language, that's a memory leak. Java teaches people to make memory leaks. I mean... ok, yeah, it's easy, but it's still a terrible idea. :\

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paulguy

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Posted on 07-14-11 07:26:15 AM Link | Quote
Paulguy's Post configuration
Isn't that the case of almost any language where you rely on a garbage collector, and you're just able to lose pointers and references all you want? Also, I think you misused "dereference". Are you referring to just losing all references to a piece of data, or retrieving the data pointed to by the reference?

It is convenient to be able to do stuff like:

SomeClass.method1(OtherClass.method6(AnotherClass.Method12341234());

and not have to worry about cleaning up whatever the last 2 methods returned, and don't really see anything terribly wrong with that usage assuming a good garbage collector. I don't know the deep details of Java, so I don't know what would create boatloads of temporary objects. I suppose a lot of string operations at once could result in a ton of temporary objects, though, and of course a lot of methods involving Collections probably can create 2n or n^2 temporary objects in some bad situations, where n is the size of the collection.

And you're right about Java with the way it's future is determined. It's mostly a corporate, money-making language. Fast development, easy, doesn't even need to be good, just needs to be able to work as cheaply as possible. Then your employees have to deal with the crap and can't say anything about it because they don't know any better or they just don't want to lose their job. Or even worse, you make some specialized something-or-other, or you just have a monopoly on some product that your customers have to eat and have no other option, so you can make it as shitty as possible, and in most of the cases, they do. :/

...but that's enough anti-corporate ranting from me in this thread, for now at least. :p

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Posted on 07-14-11 06:46:50 PM Link | Quote
2139
Originally posted by paulguy
Isn't that the case of almost any language where you rely on a garbage collector, and you're just able to lose pointers and references all you want? Also, I think you misused "dereference". Are you referring to just losing all references to a piece of data, or retrieving the data pointed to by the reference?

I was referring to when an object loses all of the pointers that point to it, so it's just orphaned in memory without any way for anything to access it. In java, you never need to "dereference" something in the same sense that you dereference it in C/C++ (as in, "dereferencing" means to access the thing pointed to by the pointer, instead of accessing the pointer itself), so someone going from Java to C/C++ may get confused by the same terms.

The main thing I get at is the fact that many many things in Java are the result of being inconfident with programming. A superstrict syntax where the slightest deviation is a fatal error, a subsystem designed to automatically erase memory that no longer is being used (so the programmer doesn't need to keep track of what he creates so he can delete it later), and the fact that each program runs in its own sterile virtual machine; it's all programmer inconfidence.

It's ok when Java is used for business/committee related stuff (since it was designed by a committee for businesses), but the fact that games like Minecraft are developed in it (and consequently run like complete ass on some systems, and eat through resources like crazy when a C/C++ port would easily resolve all of these issues) just proves that CS students and programmers are frequently taught that Java is something it's not.

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Rena
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Posted on 07-15-11 08:52:23 PM Link | Quote
Post #4225 · 07-15-11 03:52:23 PM
Yeah, my phone runs Android and sometimes it just stalls for minutes at a time as the GC churns away, or reboots probably because it's completely out of memory. Even with hardly anything running.

I like the garbage collection idea because it makes for simpler, cleaner code, not having to worry about when to delete an object and if there are still references to it afterward. For complex programs you often want some kind of reference counting system anyway so you're not deleting something that's still in use elsewhere, so it makes sense to build that into the language and delete automatically when all the references are gone. I just don't think Java does it very well...

Lua is a garbage-collected language too, but it manages to stay lean and fast, so it's certainly possible. (And if you need, you can adjust the collector to suit your needs, or disable it entirely and provide your own allocator.)

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Posted on 07-19-11 11:21:28 PM Link | Quote
As someone trying to make a program for someone else for Android...
I agree with rena completely. Overcomplicated is an understatement. At least it lets you use Eclipse; I'd be nowhere right now without it (not that i'm far at all right now, but...)

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Lyskar
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Posted on 07-22-11 05:05:01 AM Link | Quote
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Metal_Man88's Post
Java is also funky for how it has two different interfaces for drawing for web and drawing on the computer. WTF?

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