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05-03-22 04:52:51 AM
Jul - General Game/ROM Hacking - Post Beta SMW discoveries here. New poll - New thread - New reply
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Smallhacker
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Posted on 10-15-07 07:31:17 PM Link | Quote
Post Beta SMW discoveries here, no matter how insignificant.

Why did I make this thread? Well, I made a very insignificant discovery and needed somewhere to post it.

The discovery is: The boss doors were different in the beta version (O RLY?!).


There are two redundant door tiles. (White and orange boxes) These tiles suggests that there were some additional details there at some point.

White box: Possibly doorknobs or similar.
Orange box: Maybe something like hinges, or possibly another corner shape that required 1x2 tiles?
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Posted on 10-15-07 09:54:08 PM Link | Quote
Daily Cycle II ~ 3396
What'd be even better would be a list of all the other beta junk found.

And yeah, a doorknob and expanded corners sounds about right. Makes me wonder why they changed it... are all those tiles redundant, or is it just those two?

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Posted on 10-16-07 04:28:47 AM Link | Quote
IMO this should be a "Post SMW discoveries here" rather than the already exciting Beta Discovery thread idea.
One day I will solve the mystery of that walking pumpkin.
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Posted on 10-16-07 07:11:07 AM Link | Quote
Old stuff, but still:
(Extremely incomplete)

Unsolved mystery #1: "Walking pumpkin"

Found in: Caves
I still think it looks a bit like the bottom part of Swooper Bat. In fact, that's how I missed this for so long. I was so sure that it was a part of the bat that I never really noticed it... and so, BMF discovered it first. :/

Lost tile #1: "Forest ring"

Found in: Forest
An (as far as I can tell) unused tile. Sort of looks like a Chain to me. What happens if you Chomp it? ...what?

Lost tile #2: "Note"

Found in: Levels with Chargin' Chuck.
I'm still quite sure that I've seen Whistlin' Chuck or such use it... I can't find any evidence for that, though.

Oddness #1: "Layer 1 paths"

Found in: Overworld
All but two (x69 and x6F) of the blank tiles in GFX1E are used for the Layer 1 path graphics. Yes, the Layer 1 path tiles does actually have graphics, but the tiles are normally blank. In the image above, I added some LM-like graphics to the file and got that result. Now, why are those tiles there? Did Nintendo once plan on putting the path graphics on Layer 1, or was it just a temporary solution used to show the roads until the real Layer 2 graphics where in place?

Unsolved mystery #2: "Nintendo file names"
Found in: Some GFX files.
Some GFX files contains an odd letter (or number + letter), which some (read: I) call "Nintendo file names", as the only reasonable explanation I can think of is that they were used to identify the files. Here's a list of the known "Nintendo file names":
GFX05: Z
GFX0B: 1F
GFX11: 1L
GFX18: E
GFX19: F (Found among beta graphics in Test ROM)
GFX1A: G
GFX23: 1S
GFX2D: 1Y
I find that the E-F-G thing in 18-19-1A supports my file name theory. Another interesting thing is that if one assumes that the file names went like this: {A, B, C, ..., Y, Z, 1A, 1B, ..., 1X, 1Y, 1Z}, file 1Z would have been the 52st file. Interesting, as there ARE 52 GFX files in the final ROM (assuming that the Mario/Animation files counts).

Also, one might think that the "Forest ring" is actually the letter "O" and is one of these file names, but it has more shading than all other letters, so it's not too likely.

Oddness #2: "Bullet Bill cannon's fate"

Found in: All level tilesets
(Left final, Right beta) The beta version seems to have used four unique tiles for the top of the cannon. The final version uses two. (That's right. The tile below the X is actually unused.) Why did they reduce the amount of tiles used from 4 to 2? To save graphics space? However, as you can see, these free tiles were never used for anything else in the final version. One odd thing to notice, however, is that only the upper right tile is overwritten by a placeholder, not the lower right one. Why is the placeholder there? To show that the space is free? In that case, wouldn't they have overwritten the lower right tile as well? The most likely explanation I can think of is that there were some completely different and unknown tile there, which was then removed and replaced with a placeholder... for some unknown reason... Let's come up with strange theories about that removed tile. Hmm.... I think it used to contain the secret to Stop 'n' Swop.
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Posted on 10-16-07 03:42:25 PM (last edited by Mattrizzle at 03-11-17 11:15:19 PM) Link | Quote
Lost tiles: Misc. Ghost house stuff
Found in: Ghost Houses(GFX07)
Five blank tiles lie in GFX07: 8A, 92, 93, 94, and 95. Strangely, four of these tiles(92-95) correspond to the dirt tiles in most other tilesets. But why did they blank these out?


Also found in GFX07 are an odd semi-transparent tile and a vertical bone similar to the one found in cave tileset. But this one isn't even in the Ghost House's Map16!

Lost tiles: Ghost House clouds

Found in: Ghost Houses(GFX0C)
Clouds do appear outside the Ghost houses in the game(see top-left of picture), but three cloud tiles are unused: 46,47, and 70. These tiles can be used to make larger clouds(see right half of picture).


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Posted on 10-16-07 04:06:40 PM; last edit by Kles on 10-16-07 04:07 PM Link | Quote

*picture of Vanilla Dome*


What's that path on the bottom left doing?

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Skreeny
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Posted on 10-16-07 04:31:36 PM Link | Quote
That path in Vanilla Dome is the one from Special, when you're offscreen. You can see it in Lunar Magic if you make it show Layer 2 Mario Paths.

I always enjoy seeing lost prototype stuff.
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Posted on 10-16-07 05:08:50 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Mattrizzle
Five blank tiles lie in GFX07: 8A, 92, 93, 94, and 95. Strangely, four of these tiles(92-95) correspond to the dirt tiles in most other tilesets. But why did they blank these out?

Hm... Interesting. As you probably already know, most tilesets use the same tilemap layout for ground and such, allowing the ground and ledge objects to work in nearly every level. Well, I was suddenly reminded of this image:

Ghost houses used to have ledges like that.
Theory:
When they changed to the "bricks on pillars" design, they wanted to use the normal ledge object, so they placed the "brick" graphics as the ledge tiles and blanked the dirt tiles, then added the pillars manually. Then, they realized that it was a crappy idea and used the current method instead, forgetting about the blank tiles.

Also, that semi-transparent tile... Early Layer 2 fog or something...?




Lost tiles: "Ending Yoshi(-s? -ies?)"

Found in: GFX26
This is quite interesting. These are additional frames intended for the "Yoshi's House" part of the ending. The ones facing the camera has a "blink" frame. The two Yoshi(-s? -ies?) on the side were apparently turned 90 degrees (as opposed to 45 in the final version). The lower right Yoshi frame is identical to the normal standing frame... except for a few pixels missing from the shoe... ...err... Okaaaay...? Was there something on Layer 1 that Yoshi was meant to go behind? Also, there's a wing tile... Hmmmm... What could it have been used for? Something tells me that the beta ending was very different...

Lost tile: "Sprite water...?"

Found in: GFX09
Right... I have no idea... Hmmm... They're in the same file as Monty Mole... ... ... ...beta "ground moving as Monty Mole is digging" tiles? ... ... ...nah.

Lost tiles: "Squished Switch"

Found in: GFX08
Unused squished switch palace switch. The final squished switch is stored in GFX0D is a sprite, not a block.

Lost tile: "Heart"

Found in: GFX24
Loaded during Bowser fight. No questions here... except... Why didn't they use it?

Lost tile: "Magikoopa"

Found in: GFX03
I'm 99.9899% sure that the second Magikoopa frame is unused. (I've never seen it, and it's not in the tilemap)

Lost tile: "!"

Found in: GFX00
A strange ! tile in GFX00. I can't think of any place where this would be used... Hm... It's right next to the air bubble... A warning that you're running out of air? ...meh. Also, no, it's not the "?" used in one of the castle destruction sequences.

Lost tiles: "P-switch and something else"

Found in: GFX17 and GFX14, respectively
A squished Layer 1 P-switch... and another strange tile not worth its own "Lost tile". Maybe Nintendo planned on making the P-switches non-mobile, like in SMB3? Anyway, they seem to have changed their minds before the Test ROM, as it contains a flattened Sprite P-switch... (but no normal P-switch...?).
As for the strange tile... Who knows?
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Posted on 10-16-07 06:17:00 PM (last edited by Mattrizzle at 03-11-17 11:19:14 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Smallhacker

Anyway, they seem to have changed their minds before the Test ROM, as it contains a flattened Sprite P-switch... (but no normal P-switch...?).
That reminds me...

This tile was found in the SNES Test ROM, in the place that the animated tiles are loaded in the final version of SMW. It appears to be a normal P-Switch resized to an 8x8 tile. One could theorize that the un-squished P-Switch was an animated tile, (Remember, the switch had a flashing 'P' in SMB3) so it makes sense...

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Smallhacker
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Posted on 10-16-07 06:18:51 PM Link | Quote
Hm. I always assumed that the tiny 8x8 Ps were placeholders for graphics that changes when a blue P-switch is pressed.
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Posted on 10-16-07 11:06:56 PM Link | Quote
Quite a few of the autoscrollers have odd functions when you place them outside of their normal range. Most functions will just crash the game, but some appear to be fully functioning. Some of the unused sprites with nearby numbers are the same way.

My favorites of these are sprites EC and F1 when they're placed at (0, X) with extra data 0. These operate using one of the "weird" level modes to switch from horizontal to vertical mid-level.

Why did Nintendo not use such a neat feature?

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Posted on 10-17-07 12:45:51 AM Link | Quote
A Beta SMW was released? When did this happen, just out of curiousity? And why was I not informed of this occurence?
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Posted on 10-17-07 12:53:46 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by asdf
A Beta SMW was released? When did this happen, just out of curiousity? And why was I not informed of this occurence?

Yeah, seriously.
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Posted on 10-17-07 01:03:13 AM Link | Quote
JL2 - Post #1324 - 10-16-07 08:03:13 PM
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Pretty sure the idea is to speculate about how things were in beta versions based on screenshots and quirks in the final.

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Posted on 10-17-07 01:09:35 AM Link | Quote
Then where are these graphics coming from? Like the door?
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Posted on 10-17-07 01:20:09 AM Link | Quote
I think the door is a mock-up of where the tiles would be placed, not the actual graphics for the tiles.

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Posted on 10-17-07 02:12:52 AM Link | Quote
Drag's Post #329
I think they're referring to the SNES Hardware Test rom thing. It has early SMW graphics in one of the tests.

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Posted on 10-17-07 04:48:02 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by FirePhoenix0
I think the door is a mock-up of where the tiles would be placed, not the actual graphics for the tiles.
I'm pretty sure he found that messing with the tilemap in the released SMW ROM. Otherwise, barring ESP, I don't think he could make any kind of judgment about where the extraneous tiles would or could go

Everything else (except the layer 1 paths) appears to be just in the graphics files (GFX**.bin) that Lunar Magic can dump. Oh, except for the right hand bullet bill shooter. That's from the test ROM, same as the small P-switch Mattrizzle posted.

...I never did understand why SMW's Magikoopa had that terribly out-of-place dark blue on his robe where light blue logically should have been. SMA2 had it as light blue, and most of the fade-in and -out palettes had it that way, so...
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Posted on 10-20-07 02:34:31 PM; last edit by roger3245 on 10-20-07 02:38 PM Link | Quote
Lost tile: "Heart"

*picture*

Found in: GFX24
Loaded during Bowser fight. No questions here... except... Why didn't they use it?

Maybe for the "Peach Kissing Mario" scene, in the ending.


Lost tile: "Magikoopa"

*picture*

Found in: GFX03
I'm 99.9899% sure that the second Magikoopa frame is unused. (I've never seen it, and it's not in the tilemap)

I've seen this before though, in the bowser level.....


EDIT:
Also, what about the unused "blue bird" and Lakitu sprites that follow you in the overworld map?



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Posted on 10-20-07 02:51:00 PM Link | Quote
Ok I may get in trouble for these things being brought up already but I didn;t see them when I skimmed through the thread so if something I'm about to say has been said already please just ignore it.

**Lost tile: "!"**

Open up a new SMW ROM in LUnar magic and look right beside the 2nd diagonal pipe. You will see a vertical line of !s

Also has anyone brought up the Red Switch palace in Valley of Bowser located near the bottom left?

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Jul - General Game/ROM Hacking - Post Beta SMW discoveries here. New poll - New thread - New reply


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