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Liliana
"A horrible person". That's what it says. "A horrible person."

We weren't even testing for that.


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Posted on 04-22-11 01:04:43 PM Link | Quote
AVI is a very ugly hack which was, to my knowledge, introduced in Windows 3.1. That was 19 years ago.

It's rather shocking that people, knowing its numerous limitations, still use that atrocity. Though many have no choice, since most video editing software supports only AVI (yes I'm looking at you, VirtualDub). Really, even MPG is a better choice.


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Gabu

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Posted on 04-22-11 03:58:29 PM Link | Quote
I don't think a lot of people know a non-proprietary video format that is similar enough to .PNG to really convert.

Myself included. (Is it an FLV file?)

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paulguy

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Posted on 04-22-11 04:20:33 PM Link | Quote
Paulguy's Post configuration
I've heard people complain quite a bit about mkv. I personally think it's a capable format, you just need to install some extra software to play them, which I guess people don't want to do, but Windows's codec support is piss-poor at best in a default install. Dunno about .ogv's feature set.

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Liliana
"A horrible person". That's what it says. "A horrible person."

We weren't even testing for that.


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Posted on 04-22-11 06:19:00 PM Link | Quote
Doesn't help that Windows ships with really useful™ codecs, such as Cinepak (oh god) and H.261.

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Yoshimi
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Posted on 04-22-11 07:12:56 PM Link | Quote
Wait.


People still use .bmp files?

What
Lyskar
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Posted on 04-22-11 07:23:59 PM Link | Quote
Stats
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Metal_Man88's Post
Usually people who don't know what they're doing.

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Yoshimi
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Posted on 04-22-11 07:27:10 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Metal_Man88
Usually people who don't know what they're doing.


I haven't seen one in a good 10+ years...*feels old*

Are there still people who think 800x600 is the shit?
Joe
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Posted on 04-22-11 08:16:57 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by paulguy
Dunno about .ogv's feature set.
It was designed pretty much entirely for streaming Xiph codecs. It's great if that's what you have in mind, but MKV is better for everything else.

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Gabu

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Posted on 04-22-11 09:05:22 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Yoshimi
Originally posted by Metal_Man88
Usually people who don't know what they're doing.


I haven't seen one in a good 10+ years...*feels old*

Are there still people who think 800x600 is the shit?


I still use bitmaps for very small images. Like 16x16 small. Because at that size it really makes no difference whether it is .PNG or .BMP.

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Liliana
"A horrible person". That's what it says. "A horrible person."

We weren't even testing for that.


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Posted on 04-22-11 09:06:58 PM Link | Quote
PNGs are bad for small files because they have a large header.

GIFs have a great advantage there. A minimum GIF file (1x1) is 43 bytes large. Dunno how large a PNG would be, but definitely way larger.

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Nicole

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Posted on 04-22-11 09:11:14 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Prince Kassad
PNGs are bad for small files because they have a large header.

GIFs have a great advantage there. A minimum GIF file (1x1) is 43 bytes large. Dunno how large a PNG would be, but definitely way larger.

Well, in an age where even terabyte hard drives are moving into the mainstream, "large" is quite a relative term.

I use PNG for practically everything uncompressed, the only things I use GIFs for is animation and transparency. (though there can't be many people left still using browsers that don't support transparent PNG)

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Peardian

  
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Posted on 04-22-11 10:09:13 PM (last edited by Peardian at 04-22-11 07:13 PM) Link | Quote
One pixel BMP: 58 bytes
One pixel PNG (Paint): 142 bytes
One pixel PNG (Fireworks, 8bpp): 214 bytes



The only reason I keep any BMPs around is for the sake of legacy. I can sort My Documents by date modified and see the first drawing I ever made on a computer. Plus, they're almost all less than 64x64, so there's no size issue to bother with.

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Posted on 04-22-11 11:17:49 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Peardian
One pixel BMP: 58 bytes
One pixel PNG (Paint): 142 bytes
One pixel PNG (Fireworks, 8bpp): 214 bytes
One pixel PNG (pngout): 70 bytes*

*It's 70 bytes for any non-transparent grayscale color, 72 bytes for any other color; add 1 byte for transparency.

And it's still possible to go smaller.

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Nicole

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Posted on 04-23-11 01:16:44 AM Link | Quote
A 1-pixel, 8-bit greyscale single pixel image in raw image format is only 1 byte!

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paulguy

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Posted on 04-23-11 06:34:39 AM Link | Quote
Paulguy's Post configuration
but then there's nothing to describe what that byte means. It could represent anything. that's why a proper format is obviously larger, since it contains all the information required to describe it. Also, why does PNG require so much padding?

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Liliana
"A horrible person". That's what it says. "A horrible person."

We weren't even testing for that.


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Posted on 04-23-11 12:31:15 PM Link | Quote
It's due to the way the chunks are defined. They contain a length (four bytes), the name (another four bytes), the data and finally a CRC (another four bytes). This is what accounts for the main part of the PNG file size as opposed to other formats.

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paulguy

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Posted on 04-23-11 04:02:34 PM (last edited by paulguy at 04-23-11 01:05 PM) Link | Quote
Paulguy's Post configuration
Oh, so it's not really padding, it's just data. I thought I saw a lot of 0s in thee hex dump, though.

Edit: looked back and it was just in the ihdr portion so I guess that's just the size data or something.

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Shadic
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Posted on 04-23-11 04:05:27 PM Link | Quote
Liliana
"A horrible person". That's what it says. "A horrible person."

We weren't even testing for that.


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Posted on 04-23-11 04:08:54 PM Link | Quote
Blame leading zeroes. Both height and width are 32-bit. If you don't have a 4,294,967,296x4,294,967,296 image, it's naturally going to have a few of them.

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dotUser
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Posted on 04-23-11 04:46:32 PM Link | Quote
logo Pesterboard v1.0
Originally posted by paulguy
I've heard people complain quite a bit about mkv ... you just need to install some extra software to play them ...


Define "extra software".

If you mean any video player that isn't WMP, yeah. But why would you want to use WMP?

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