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05-03-22 07:21:10 AM
Jul - News - Government shutdown and what's in that Republican Budget New poll - New thread - New reply
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FieryIce

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Posted on 04-06-11 08:48:35 PM Link | Quote
You may have heard about the ongoing debate on the budget to fund the federal government - they can't agree on how much to cut (earlier this year democrats agreed to republican cuts of ~33 billion but then Republicans began pushing for ~70 billion) and on Tuesday, here's a nice read on the budget that Republicans revealed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/whos-hurt-by-paul-ryans-budget-proposal/2011/04/05/AFfP7PlC_story.html


If it does nothing else, the budget that House Republicans unveiled Tuesday provides the first real Republican program for the 21st century, and it is this:

Repeal the 20th century.

Republicans have never particularly warmed to the American social contract that governed most of the past hundred years. Its central elements, enacted during the presidencies of Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson, assumed a level of collective national responsibility for the well-being of the elderly and children, the two groups who could not benefit directly from employment, through such programs as Social Security, Medicare, funding for schools and for college grants and loans.

The logic behind these programs wasn’t simply humanitarian. It was also economic: Bolstering the purchasing power of the elderly increased economic activity and enabled the adult children of the elderly to invest more in their own children. Enabling more people to get good educations straight through college created a more productive workforce. A similar dual logic — both humanitarian and Keynesian — informed the programs that aided the poor and unemployed, such as Medicaid and food stamps.

Conservatives have never cottoned to this contract. They argue that a laissez faire economy can produce even greater or at least similar levels of prosperity and economic security, despite a striking lack of historical or economic data to back up this contention. House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) made that claim Tuesday in presenting his budget proposal. But Ryan’s pieties notwithstanding, his budget is a prescription for diminishing prosperity and security, a road map, in fact, for national decline.

Ryan achieves the bulk of his savings through sharp reductions in projected spending on Medicare and Medicaid, converting the former into a right-to-purchase private insurance, subsidized up to a point, and the latter into a block grant program. (Scrapping Social Security remains, for now, a bridge too far.) Skyrocketing medical costs are the chief factor in rising government expenses, but rather than have government bring down those costs by, say, negotiating with drug companies on the price of their products, Ryan simply forces the elderly, their children and the poor to pick up more of those costs. As the number of retirees with defined-benefit pensions continues to shrink (thanks to corporate America and, this year, Republican governors), an increasing number of seniors will be unable to purchase the medications they need.

Ryan’s budget would also reduce projected spending on discretionary domestic programs — education, transportation, food safety and the like — to well below levels of inflation. That not only ensures that high-speed rail won’t be built but also means that potholes won’t be filled.


A decade ago, some conservatives were still talking about “national greatness conservatism.” Ryan’s budget is a manifesto for national puniness conservatism.

The cover under which Ryan and other Republicans operate is their concern for the deficit and national debt. But Ryan blows that cover by proposing to reduce the top income tax rate to just 25 percent. He imposes the burden for reducing our debt not on the bankers who forced our government to spend trillions averting a collapse but on seniors and the poor. The reductions in aid to the poor, says the budget blueprint that Ryan released, will be made “to ensure that America’s safety net does not become a hammock that lulls able-bodied citizens into lives of complacency and dependency.” That’s a pretty good description of America’s top bankers, but Ryan’s budget showers them with tax cuts.

Republicans can’t take sole credit for creating a vision of a diminished America. Most of the Washington-based commentariat has focused on the debt over the past year, ignoring both the persistence of high unemployment and the absolute stagnation of wages even as profits have soared. Those who applaud the macroeconomics of Ryan’s cuts should at least be compelled to explain how ordinary Americans, whose incomes haven’t risen since the late ’90s, can take up the slack, in their own purchasing and in the nation’s economic activity, created by these cuts. They might even want to think about raising taxes on profits and capital gains, since these forms of income are rising even as wages flatline.

And, finally, there’s talk that we have a president who’s a Democrat — the party that created the American social contract of the 20th century. Initially, he focused on reshaping and extending that contract into the 21st. Now that the Republicans want to repeal it all, he’s nowhere to be found. Has anybody seen him? Does he still exist?


Anyway, failure to pass a budget by Friday 11:59pm will result in a government shutdown that will leave some parks, museums, and zoos closed and leave out of work almost every federal employee. (including the military)

This country is falling apart. :specialed:
Lyskar
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Posted on 04-06-11 09:03:53 PM Link | Quote
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If this keeps up, I'm just going to have to leave America. I would like to be able to get an education and a job, but it's clear that's not for a peasant like me to have in this nation of rich overlords.

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FieryIce

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Posted on 04-07-11 02:37:03 AM Link | Quote
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/republicans-embrace-rep-ryans-government-budget-plan-for-2012/2011/04/05/AFla6ulC_story.html

Well, if the current budget crisis is bad enough - their ambitions for 2012 will make for a good thriller.

Seriously ... ugh!
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Posted on 04-07-11 02:58:57 AM Link | Quote


Originally posted by FieryIce
Anyway, failure to pass a budget by Friday 11:59pm will result in a government shutdown that will leave some parks, museums, and zoos closed and leave out of work almost every federal employee. (including the military)


Putting the military out of work? Holy crap, what in the hell is the government trying to prove by risking this?

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Lyskar
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Posted on 04-07-11 03:07:08 AM Link | Quote
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GOTTA HAVE THOSE TAX CUTS AT ANY COST

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Posted on 04-07-11 07:25:53 AM Link | Quote
Governor Brown of California threatened to cut off a few weeks form California's public school year if a new budget didn't pass. And wouldn't you know it? It worked. It is a bluff that no one can legitimately call.
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Posted on 04-07-11 07:57:29 AM Link | Quote
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This would be why I voted for him. Unfortunately there are not fifty clones of him, so that will remain the sole example.

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Posted on 04-07-11 09:51:20 PM Link | Quote
I think Obama will veto the bill if the conservatives have their way, though.

Still not good at all, considering we'd have to see this drama unfold ALL OVER AGAIN, but yeah.

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Posted on 04-08-11 03:07:49 PM Link | Quote
I hope he does. :T

Politics in the US are getting so absurd; they make me want to move to a happy little liberal country like Sweden.

Über-sigh.

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Posted on 04-08-11 03:28:15 PM Link | Quote
Frankly, I see it this way: humanitarian programs are great and all, but not if there's no money to support them! There has been *way* too much spending going on; some of those programs' spokespeople are going to have to just quit bitching and make do with what they have. You shouldn't have to pay for the government's mistakes, but that's the way it works right now and it's not changing anytime soon.

Some people are way, way too spoiled by having some of these programs; a lot of people in places like ... say, India do not and will never have access to something like Medicare or Planned Parenthood at all, and they muddle through somehow. Basically: deal with it. It sucks, which is a massive understatement, but again: that's how it is, and change takes time.

However a shutdown doesn't benefit anybody, anywhere; this situation has been entirely engineered for political reasons, once again ignoring what's good for the country in favor of popularity. Blame lies on both sides here: the former Democratic legislative branch for not passing a budget for the fiscal year (before it started last October) purposefully in order to trigger this situation (and therefore make the right side look worse), and the Republicans for being stubborn immovable walls as always.

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Posted on 04-08-11 04:12:38 PM Link | Quote
Which is why, IMO, they should charge more taxes on those with the most money (i.e., the rich and corporations) in order to raise money for stuff like health care.

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FieryIce

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Posted on 04-08-11 04:32:11 PM Link | Quote
Frankly, I find it depressing that people who merely manipulate money (Wall St..) and contribute nothing meaningful to society get to live much better lives than people who contribute greatly such as teachers, engineers, doctors, and researchers.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his deeds."
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Posted on 04-08-11 04:35:58 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Bagel
Frankly, I see it this way: humanitarian programs are great and all, but not if there's no money to support them! There has been *way* too much spending going on; some of those programs' spokespeople are going to have to just quit bitching and make do with what they have. You shouldn't have to pay for the government's mistakes, but that's the way it works right now and it's not changing anytime soon.

Some people are way, way too spoiled by having some of these programs; a lot of people in places like ... say, India do not and will never have access to something like Medicare or Planned Parenthood at all, and they muddle through somehow. Basically: deal with it. It sucks, which is a massive understatement, but again: that's how it is, and change takes time.

However a shutdown doesn't benefit anybody, anywhere; this situation has been entirely engineered for political reasons, once again ignoring what's good for the country in favor of popularity. Blame lies on both sides here: the former Democratic legislative branch for not passing a budget for the fiscal year (before it started last October) purposefully in order to trigger this situation (and therefore make the right side look worse), and the Republicans for being stubborn immovable walls as always.

Of course there is more money. The problem is this bizarre concept that a balanced budget should be a major concern in an economic downturn. The reason Clinton managed to get close to it was- shocker- the economy was great! Of course the government can bring in money when the economy is doing well. (Also, tax rates were higher)

And the Republicans do stand to benefit from a shutdown and from things getting worse much more than the Democrats, because then they can pull that classic "are you better off now than 4 years ago" line in 2012... the sitting President usually gets the blame.

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FieryIce

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Posted on 04-08-11 08:27:21 PM Link | Quote
Wait a minute ...

House votes to repeal regulations on Internet access

Aren't they supposed to be debating a budget compromise?? What in the world?

Fun:


House Republicans adamant that the government keep its hands off the Internet passed a bill Friday to repeal federal rules barring Internet service providers from blocking or setting different prices for some uses of their networks.


Ugh!
Lyskar
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Posted on 04-08-11 09:30:05 PM Link | Quote
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Originally posted by Sofi
I hope he does. :T

Politics in the US are getting so absurd; they make me want to move to a happy little liberal country like Sweden.

Über-sigh.


Pretty much the same here, especially since many of these bills hindering education, unemployment resources, health, and internet are basically a collusion of things meant to ruin my life.

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Posted on 04-08-11 10:11:23 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Bagel
Some people are way, way too spoiled by having some of these programs; a lot of people in places like ... say, India do not and will never have access to something like Medicare or Planned Parenthood at all, and they muddle through somehow. Basically: deal with it. It sucks, which is a massive understatement, but again: that's how it is, and change takes time.
China has no minimum wage or safety regulations, and they somehow survive.

Americans should repeal all of those and send their children to sweatshops to make shoes for 25 cents an hour.
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Posted on 04-08-11 10:49:04 PM (last edited by Shadic at 04-08-11 07:55 PM) Link | Quote
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Posted on 04-08-11 11:10:43 PM (last edited by Gabu at 04-08-11 08:11 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Shadic
Except what the Republicans have been proposing doesn't address what's actually causing the deficit. Fiddle around with this page to see how one can alter the budget without doing the absolutely-fucking-stupid things the Republicans are proposing.

Not to mention things such as Planned Parenthood actually save money in the long run as they directly help those who need it most - middle and lower class people. Medical care is immensely important too - these things keep people both out of bankruptcy and out of a coffin.

This is the best way I've seen of describing it: "The US budget is like a 1st grader playing Oregon Trail. Spend all the money on ammunition so you can shoot at stuff, then wonder why your wagon is falling apart and everyone is dying of dysentery."


This, basically. Also I fixed the budget :U

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Posted on 04-08-11 11:28:33 PM Link | Quote
I also fixed the budget. If only I were dictator, though.

Only 3.5 hours remain.
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Posted on 04-08-11 11:46:23 PM (last edited by Bagel at 04-08-11 08:47 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Skreeny
Americans should send their children to sweatshops to make shoes for 25 cents an hour.

Because I was totally advocating that. I am a completely heartless bastard with no empathy toward anyone.

Yyyyeah, sarcasm has no place in a debate; that's moving from sharing an opinion to oneupmanship.

I'm trying to see things realistically without emotions getting in the way here -- if it makes me sound like a callous, uncaring robot, then that's not surprising.

Moving on.

The military budget has been growing like crazy since forever. Spending goes up during wartime, but then people resent getting a pay cut in peacetime, so ... yeah.

Look. I'm not against people being healthy or educated, or whatever. I am more of the mind that if someone makes a bad decision they should have to at least try to be creative and deal with the consequences themselves first, and then if they can't handle the situation on their own, use the public help program as a last resort only. If only more people could do so, those programs wouldn't need as much funding, but oh wait there's human nature driving people toward taking the easiest way out.

There are some actual good ideas for fixing this budget on both sides, but no one ever will concede that for a second. Instead it's all the ideas from one party, or nothing. Blah. It's obvious, but this is not about what's good for America; it's about organizations making money at the expense of everyone else, as usual.


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