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05-03-22 08:11:37 PM
Jul - News - Pastor loses job after doubting hell's existence New poll - New thread - New reply
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sofi

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Posted on 03-24-11 08:30:39 PM Link | Quote
Okay, this might really kind of be non-news. I'm certainly not religious, but I think the fact that he is encouraging people to reconsider their beliefs prompted them to get him fired is pretty ridiculous.

There's probably something to be said in here about online media, too, and the ramifications of, well, just posting on your Facebook.

Take a look.

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Posted on 03-24-11 08:38:20 PM Link | Quote
Honestly, to me if there's one job where it makes sense that someone could be fired for their religious beliefs, it's being a pastor... If you're contradicting the doctrines of the religion you claim to be representing, after all...

I mean, even if it was just on Facebook, in the case of religion a pastor should be preaching what they believe... I wouldn't necessarily place it in the same category as other jobs for that reason.

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Posted on 03-24-11 08:39:34 PM Link | Quote
Well, it's not *that* surprising. Speaking as an atheist, it seems to me like the basis of religion appears to just be to do as you're told without question; to just "believe". I've encountered a number of religious people over my lifetime, and the one thing they seem to hate more than anything is when you question *anything* related to the Bible or what they learned in church. "Because it's in the Bible" never satisfied me; I'm the kind of person who wants answers, not blind faith. But then, that's why I'm an atheist.

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Posted on 03-24-11 10:03:15 PM Link | Quote
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It gets better though, as what's in the Bible is, more often than not, not what is actually being preached anyway.

The person brings up a good point, about the condemned and all. It's just senseless and hateful to believe everyone who doesn't believe in your religion is evil. But hey, don't let common sense get in the way of turgid dogma made up not by Jesus himself, but rather evil people like Paul.

Seriously. Read Paul's segments in the bible. He's like Agent Smith, telling everyone to become the same or be destroyed.

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Posted on 03-24-11 10:39:14 PM (last edited by YK at 03-24-11 07:40 PM) Link | Quote
Religion just seems to be a "pick and choose what, in the Bible, you believe most in, and cling to that as though it's the one and only truth, disregarding anything contradictory that may *also* be in the Bible". Perfect justification for your personal hatreds; "It's in the Bible, so therefore it's fact!" Nevermind that the Bible probably has several other passages that *praise* the act or race or whatever you've deemed irredeemably evil.

Honestly, the Bible almost seems like an ancient collective of editorials from people in the era in which it was written. There are so many conflicts between one person's views and another in there, that it's hard to even *imagine* why *anyone*, much less *entire nations*, treat it as a serious educational textbook...

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Posted on 03-24-11 11:09:15 PM Link | Quote
Honestly, I have to applaud the guy for maintaining some semblance of open-mindedness and actually admitting his doubts. If I was ever speaking to a congregation I'd not be afraid to admit that I had doubts from time to time -- that's kind of a natural implied part of following a religion, if you ask me.

The problem is more with the rigid, unchanging leadership surrounding him.

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Posted on 03-24-11 11:27:36 PM Link | Quote




Topic title is bad, he's not doubting hell itself, he just got mixed feelings about what's going on down there.

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Posted on 03-25-11 12:15:17 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Karis
Topic title is bad, he's not doubting hell itself, he just got mixed feelings about what's going on down there.

I took the topic title from the article title.

In any case, he seems to doubt the existence of hell in the way most Christians know it.

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Posted on 03-26-11 07:47:59 PM (last edited by Zero One at 03-26-11 04:51 PM) Link | Quote
To be honest, I'd doubt the Bible, not just hell.

My Ethics teacher created a 25-page document on all the innacuracies and paradoxes in the Bible. I'd hardly call it the word of God when it has more plotholes than Star Trek.

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Posted on 03-26-11 07:52:48 PM Link | Quote
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That's why, oddly, many ex-Christians I know became agnostics/atheists after reading the bible.

Yeah. Weird.

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Posted on 03-26-11 07:56:57 PM Link | Quote




Originally posted by Zero One
To be honest, I'd doubt the Bible, not just hell.

My Ethics teacher created a 25-page document on all the innacuracies and paradoxes in the Bible. I'd hardly call it the word of God when it has more plotholes than Star Trek.

Did someone say word of God?! 8D

*Karis runs off




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Posted on 03-27-11 05:05:33 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zero One
To be honest, I'd doubt the Bible, not just hell.

My Ethics teacher created a 25-page document on all the innacuracies and paradoxes in the Bible. I'd hardly call it the word of God when it has more plotholes than Star Trek.


I would very much want to read that document. ANd then pass out that document everywhere depending on how excellent it is.

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Posted on 03-27-11 09:25:38 AM Link | Quote
...I'm debating whether or not to upload that now

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Posted on 03-28-11 12:53:47 PM (last edited by Kunta LaRainbow at 03-28-11 09:54 AM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zero One
...I'm debating whether or not to upload that now


For the love of God, upload it!


(Believe it or not, I didn't notice the irony of what I was saying until after posting it.)
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Posted on 03-28-11 02:37:44 PM (last edited by Zero One at 03-28-11 11:45 AM) Link | Quote
*Whistles slyly*

Totally no offence intended at all.

EDIT: Actually, no, because I might offend someone.

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Posted on 03-28-11 06:34:08 PM (last edited by Viola at 03-28-11 03:37 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Sofi
Originally posted by Karis
Topic title is bad, he's not doubting hell itself, he just got mixed feelings about what's going on down there.

I took the topic title from the article title.

In any case, he seems to doubt the existence of hell in the way most Christians know it.


Considering that most of Hell's physical characteristics as we know them come not from the Bible, but from the medieval equivalent of FAN FICTION, , the guy is perfectly within his right to do this.


He says he doubts Hell is like what people think it is. He didn't say he was doubting something written in the Bible.


What happened here is essentially like getting fired from Bethesda Software for not accepting "Half Life: Full-Life Consequences" as part of the series official continuity. Nowhow muck sence dose that maik, I said?

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Posted on 03-28-11 09:05:18 PM Link | Quote
Any religion will develop as time goes by and more ideas are added to the canon. Even if you decide that Christianity had to stop as soon as the bible was written (in... the 4th century AD or so?), you're still dealing with centuries of Judaism evolving as it gets passed along. Combine that with the like five thousand different major versions of Christianity ("see, Genesis is metaphor, but Revelation is literal" "no, they're all literal, you just have to read them in the order in this handy-dandy pamphlet that costs only $5.99!", "we shouldn't be putting so much emphasis on this, the point is be good to each other") and... yeah.

That said, if you belong to a branch that believes in doctrine (x), it wouldn't be too surprising if they not let you be a pastor if you doubt doctrine (x), regardless of where that doctrine originated.
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Posted on 03-29-11 01:11:36 AM Link | Quote
Yeah if you are reading the bible solely so you can point out all of the plotholes and inconsistencies in it, then you are completely missing the point. It was never meant to be one perfectly consistent narrative that is 100% literal fact no questions asked from beginning to end despite what some fundies may say. It's a collection of historical events; myths that formed the basis of ancient Israelite beliefs; documents of the oral tradition, culture, and beliefs of these same people; editorials and letters of early Christians; and overall, it's a collection of a vast amount of historical evidence from several different times periods that illustrate how Judaism and Christianity began, changed, and grew over time. Reading the Bible just to nitpick it and prove every little thing that could possibly be false is like spending years at an archaeological dig unearthing several pieces of evidence from a long dead culture, and instead of trying to piece the evidence together to get a clearer picture of what that culture may have been like and when it existed, you instead spend your time degrading it because the piece of writing you found was obviously biased, completely out in left field, and contradicted another piece of evidence found in the same dig. Do you see people writing thesis' and essays that nitpick other historical works of literature for being inaccurate? No because that is not the point.

Granted that yes, in essence the "original" bible does not really exist and all we have today are translations of translations of translations of rewritings that eventually became the King James Bible that was then translated endlessly again, but the bible is still a collection of cultural and historical artifacts that offer insight into an earlier time among a particular group of people.

Also, I believe that it is necessary for religions to change and grow over time, and that by changing and growing, overall, humanity gets a little closer to the truth. After all, it is only by questioning things that we are able to improve at all. The Bible is not the end all be all of Judaism/Christianity. It is one resource that shows how both religions have evolved over time due to MANY factors, and how they continue to evolve (and divide) today. For instance, many beliefs of various forms of modern Christianity come not from the bible, but were ingrained over time from works of literature such as The Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost. However, these works were inspired by Christianity itself, challenged things, and ended up setting a precedent for Christianity thereafter. Art imitates life and life imitates art. It's in the same way that a 1930s Coca-Cola ad led to our modern day image of Santa-Claus. It doesn't matter today if that wasn't how Santa-Claus was originally perceived, because now it is an ingrained part of our culture. In the same way, it does not matter if certain Christian viewpoints are not actually in the Bible, because Christianity has evolved to include those concepts over time from other sources, and when you remember that the Bible itself is nothing more than a collection of sources anyway, is that really such a hard concept to grasp?

Granted I am one of the people who essentially became agnostic after I actually bothered to READ the Bible, but I am very interested now in studying it for what it is, and it still hasn't convinced me that religion/Christianity in general is complete BS, and I don't believe that faith is something that can be rationally proven or dis-proven by skeptically analyzing it to death. It is one of those things where you are going to find exactly what you set out to find. If you are determined to prove the Bible false, then you will find it false. If you are determined to believe without a shadow of a doubt, you will find that everything in the Bible is true. Let's just say that I prefer to take a middle ground, but in order to do that, I can neither completely denounce, nor completely believe everything in it. I rely on common sense and proven facts to help me determine my interpretation and what I believe, but at the same time, in order to be truly objective, I have to be open minded to the possibility that it is all true, or at the very least, that it holds fundamental truths, or involves things that we cannot rationally understand. Considering that all we have is a translation of a translation of a translation that was handed down over several generations before even being written down and then passed over several more generations, I'd say that any interpretation of it is possible, and the only people who are complete bullshit are those who claim that their interpretation is the only one. Yes this includes atheists/agnostics too who I swear some of them can be as bad as fundies when it comes to unrealistic close-minded dogma.

Tl;dr: Don't worry, somehow I got into an essay regarding my own religious views. Also Dogma sucks, and people who constantly point out the flaws and nitpicks in the bible while completely ignoring everything else about it are just as bad and people who believe it as 100% completely literal fact.

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Posted on 03-29-11 06:07:52 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Viola
What happened here is essentially like getting fired from Bethesda Software for not accepting "Half Life: Full-Life Consequences" as part of the series official continuity. Nowhow muck sence dose that maik, I said?

This is such an obscure comparison, I love it. Kudos to you.

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Posted on 03-29-11 07:14:04 PM (last edited by Viola at 03-29-11 04:15 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Sofi
Originally posted by Viola
What happened here is essentially like getting fired from Bethesda Software for not accepting "Half Life: Full-Life Consequences" as part of the series official continuity. Nowhow muck sence dose that maik, I said?

This is such an obscure comparison, I love it. Kudos to you.


I kind of feel that I should take this statement back.

Dante's Divine Comedy may not be all that comedic, but it has to be a better read than

John Freeman had to go faster like the speed of sound and got there fast because Gordon needed him where he was. John Freeman looked at road signs and saw "Ravenholm" with someons writing under it saying "u shudnt come here" so John Freeman almost turned around but heard screaming like Gordon so he went faster again.


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