PYRATROOPER
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| Posted on 02-25-11 04:54:06 AM (last edited by PYRATROOPER at 02-25-11 01:55 AM) |
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Here is my view on this issue: Separation of Church and State as it is implied in the constitution or as stated it is by Thomas Jefferson would either make all marriage laws unconstitutional or even if they are legal it whould not be up to the individual states or the federal government to decide as by that doctrine it would be up to the individual church and/or religions to decide and if those church and/or religion allows the State and Federal government should respect that.
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PYRATROOPER
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| Posted on 02-25-11 05:04:50 AM (last edited by PYRATROOPER at 02-25-11 02:05 AM) |
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Originally posted by Imajin
Originally posted by PYRATROOPER
Here is my view on this issue: Separation of Church and State as it is implied in the constitution or as stated by Thomas Jefferson would either make all marriage laws unconstitutional or even if they are legal it whould not be up to the individual states or the federal government to decide as by that doctrine it would be up to the individual church and/or religions to decide and if those church and/or religion allows the State and Federal government should respect that.
The problem with this logic is that it carries the implication that atheists (or even agnostics, I suppose) wouldn't get married- but they do. It seems strange to claim that marriage is wholly a religious thing when there is a long attributed history of secular marriage.
I never said that atheists (or even agnostics, I suppose) would not get married that is called common law marriage.. And if it is secular marriage we are going to talk about here there secular groups that allow gay marriage, polygamy, Polyandry and child marriage. However many of these could be both a religious and/or secular issue.
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Peardian
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 The problem is that marriage is not an exclusively religious thing, and certainly not exclusively Christian. People use religion as a shield to try and defend their views on this issue when it simply boils down to intollerance and ignorance, whether or not they realize it themselves.
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PYRATROOPER
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| Posted on 02-25-11 05:23:48 AM (last edited by PYRATROOPER at 02-25-11 02:33 AM) |
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Originally posted by Peardian
The problem is that marriage is not an exclusively religious thing, and certainly not exclusively Christian. People use religion as a shield to try and defend their views on this issue when it simply boils down to intollerance and ignorance, whether or not they realize it themselves.
Like the Mormons in many states getting denied there beliefs of polygamy based on that.
Also here is a quote from my favorite episode of Boston Legal featuring Reverend Al Sharpton nad a judge who absolutely hates Gay people in general and there rights.
Judge Harry Hingham: All right, already. I've heard enough. I'm going to rule on this.
Alan Shore: You can't rule yet.
Judge Harry Hingham: Why not?
Alan Shore: I don't know. Well... What if, say, some big celebrity were to come charging through the door?
Reverend Al Sharpton: Sorry, I'm late, Judge. I'll make this quick.
Alan Shore: And subtle.
Judge Harry Hingham: Who the hell are you?
Reverend Al Sharpton: The image of Santa Claus has been crafted for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years, but we're supposed to be in a different day. Give the world a black Santa Claus. Let the people have an African-American come down the chimney bearing joy and good will.
Alan Shore: Gay, not black.
Reverend Al Sharpton: The prejudice against gay people must stop. We all say we're for gay rights. We all say we accept homosexuality. But give a gay man a hug, sit in his lap...
Judge Harry Hingham: Who is this man?
Reverend Al Sharpton: Let the bells of tolerance ring out this Christmas. Let people open their minds as they open their presents underneath the tree. We need your mind, judge, today. Let the gay man be my brother, be your brother, be the schoolteacher, be the construction worker! Give the world a gay Santa Claus! God Almighty, God Almighty, God Almighty. Leave out the cookies and the milk this Christmas Eve for a holly, jolly homosexual! God Almighty!
Alan Shore: And cut.
Reverend Al Sharpton: I threw in one extra.
Alan Shore: Thank you.
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FieryIce
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You do know you can get a secular marriage right now in a courthouse, for example? You also know that marriage has existed since way before Christianity or any religion nowadays that would complain about its "evolution," right?
When gay marriage is legalized, in most states this means you can get married by a government official - religious people can still choose not to marry a gay couple.
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PYRATROOPER
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| Posted on 02-25-11 12:41:03 PM (last edited by PYRATROOPER at 02-25-11 09:42 AM) |
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Originally posted by FieryIce
You do know you can get a secular marriage right now in a courthouse, for example? You also know that marriage has existed since way before Christianity or any religion nowadays that would complain about its "evolution," right?
Ah, yeah I know it is called Ceremonial marriage when that happens if I remember right. Also I did know know marriage has existed since way before Christianity or any religion.
Did you know none of the founding fathers of this country knew anything about evolution . They believed in something called Deism which is this:
is the philosophy of religion is the standpoint that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that a supreme being created the universe. Further the term often implies that this supreme being does not intervene in human affairs or suspend the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles, tending to assert that God (or "The Supreme Architect") has a plan for the universe that is not to be altered by intervention in the affairs of human life. Deists believe in the existence of God without any reliance on revealed religion, religious authority or holy books.
Note to people who still deny a higher power: How do you explain the big bang because the farther and farther you go back in that theory the more and more it can seem plausible of a higher power. On to evolution basically although evolution has been excepted the world over by people as fact, more and more scientist have become to realize there are huge problems at this time with the theory that we can not currently explain, such as how and why it happens:
Also some of these scientist who study evolution actually actually say there is some merit to Adam and Eve. They say that although evolution is a fact they still say the current human race started with with one person of both genders. Many of these scientists also believe in a higher power.
However I am a firm believer in all types of marriage and I do not believe in a higher power, although the text of this post may seem otherwise.
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Zero One
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Originally posted by PYRATROOPER
...such as how and why it happens...
Random mutations in DNA causing a change in the offspring of an animal. If the animal can surive with the DNA mutation and is able to reproduce, it spreads down through the generations, creating a new species or sub-species. If it can't survive, the mutation is wiped out.
But that's besides the point 
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PYRATROOPER
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Originally posted by Zero One
Originally posted by PYRATROOPER
...such as how and why it happens...
Random mutations in DNA causing a change in the offspring of an animal. If the animal can surive with the DNA mutation and is able to reproduce, it spreads down through the generations, creating a new species or sub-species. If it can't survive, the mutation is wiped out.
But that's besides the point
I know that but it still does not explain why the random mutations happen in the first place.
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PYRATROOPER
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Originally posted by Terra
Seems to me that they arise from cell divisions being imperfect, chemicals and particles (like radiation) affecting cells in our body to produce mutations, and even just the mixing of genes that comes with sexual reproduction.
Dog breeding and plant cultivation are examples of evolution at work. The carrot has only been orange for a few centuries and bananas were once full of seeds; the modern carrot and banana are the result of human-guided evolution.
That could be true to a point.
I thought this was curious I jus6t remembered reading this book a few years ago but I can not remember what it is called. In It this guy says humans are the most naive and stupid species to ever inhabit the planet. Also in this book he says unlike what most believe we do not have the destroy or save the planet we only have the power to save ourselves. He also says that even if we make the planet not inhabitable by us, some versions of life will survive whether it is under a icecap somewhere, a desert or at the bottom of the ocean. He also says life will always find a way to survive. He also said that light,air,oxygen level and temperature levels were higher 65 million years ago which probably allowed the the Dinosaurs to evolve and adapted so well, so you could says it is that way for us just the opposite.
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Peardian
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Also I did know know marriage has existed since way before Christianity or any religion.
Did you know none of the founding fathers of this country knew anything about evolution .
FieryIce was talking about a different kind of "evolution", the gradual acceptance of same-sex marriage from the more stricter definition. Evolution of organisms has little to do with this.
That could be true to a point.
I thought this was curious I jus6t remembered reading this book a few years ago but I can not remember what it is called.
If it's any kind of fictional book such as Jurassic Park, I wouldn't put much faith in its scientific accuracy. Also, this is getting quite off-topic. Dinosaurs have very little to do with the issue of same-sex marriage.
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PYRATROOPER
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| Posted on 02-25-11 04:53:00 PM (last edited by PYRATROOPER at 02-25-11 02:51 PM) |
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Originally posted by Peardian
Also I did know know marriage has existed since way before Christianity or any religion.
Did you know none of the founding fathers of this country knew anything about evolution .
FieryIce was talking about a different kind of "evolution", the gradual acceptance of same-sex marriage from the more stricter definition. Evolution of organisms has little to do with this.
That could be true to a point.
I thought this was curious I jus6t remembered reading this book a few years ago but I can not remember what it is called.
If it's any kind of fictional book such as Jurassic Park, I wouldn't put much faith in its scientific accuracy. Also, this is getting quite off-topic. Dinosaurs have very little to do with the issue of same-sex marriage.
Thanks for someone clearing that "evolution" part up. Based on all the evidence of animal homosexuality I would not be surprised if there were gay Dinosaurs. Also I know for a fact the book was not Jurassic Park, it was some non fiction book my friend loaned.
Also back to the topic on hand here . I support every type of marriage you can think of such as gay marriage, polygamy, Polyandry and child marriage and even creepier people marring there pets , cars or whatever object they can come up with.
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... do you even know what are you talking about?
I mean, while I guess it's ok for people to do crazy stuff that's somewhat harmless such as marrying videogame characters and whatever, or exceptional (and highly debatable) cases or a mature enough teen, or hell, even some crazy unresolved love triangle, you have to take into account that there are many implications in that and except in really bizarre situations most likely than not it involves matrimony with a completelly different intent. Child marriage for instance can be considered a form of abuse, polygamy and polyandry often happen as a form of gender discrimination, and interspecies/inanimate is either in satirical nature or/and the human is insane.
So your comparision to gay marriage, whose only issue is not following certain thoughts, can actually be found pretty offensive. But I take you didn't know any better.
(as a side note, there are no gay dinosaurs because animals don't follow the rules of human society and as such there's no thing like "straight" or "gay", there's only sex)
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| Posted on 02-26-11 05:09:54 PM (last edited by Friend2.0 at 02-26-11 02:13 PM) |
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Originally posted by PYRATROOPER
Here is my view on this issue: Separation of Church and State as it is implied in the constitution or as stated it is by Thomas Jefferson would either make all marriage laws unconstitutional or even if they are legal it whould not be up to the individual states or the federal government to decide as by that doctrine it would be up to the individual church and/or religions to decide and if those church and/or religion allows the State and Federal government should respect that.
I was fine with respecting your point of view until you brought up the issue of the Constitution, which you clearly have not read or researched in any way. The separation of church and state was intended to prevent the church from meddling in the affairs of politics(See the butchery that happened under Bloody Mary's rule and the Churches hand in it as well as the Pope/Catholic Churches hand in politics since..forever). Marriage has for a long time been a secular union in the eyes of the law. Not God's law or the Flying Spagetti Monsters law. The law of the state. The real law that holds countries together. It has nothing to with religion AT ALL. The value placed on the "sanctity" of marriage and the "holiness" of the union by religions has absolutely nothing to do with it being recognized under the law of the state. For the record, by the time the Constitution was ratified, it looked nothing like the original that the founding fathers wrote. So don't be quick to quote what the founding fathers wanted because in all honesty you have no idea. |
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| | | | | Originally posted by PYRATROOPER
Note to people who still deny a higher power
Originally posted by PYRATROOPER
I do not believe in a higher power
You know, the more you post, the more it looks like you're just ripping other people's quotes from Google searches and claiming them as your own.
Oh, wait! 
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| Posted on 02-26-11 09:32:29 PM (last edited by Metal_Man88 at 02-26-11 06:39 PM) |
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| | Metal_Man88's Post | TL;DR: He is/was a Pithy Phrase and we should continue this conversation where it was before he got involved, because we weren't really speaking to him anyway--just his collection of irrelevant quotes.
Therefore, respond to this, and not the above quagmire, if at all possible:
Originally posted by FieryIce
The Maryland Senate gave final approval to the gay marriage bill. (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/annapolis/2011/02/senate_approves_gay_marriage_h.html)
Now the house has to vote, I'm confident about that. Yay, gay marriage south of the (PA) border. 
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Gay marriage ban fails in Wyoming Senate
A bill that would have barred government officials from recognizing same-sex marriages performed outside the state died in the Wyoming Senate on Wednesday.
House Bill 74, titled Validity of Marriages, failed 14-16 in the Senate, after members of the House approved it on a 31-28 vote earlier in the day.
The legislative wrangling drew the attention of Jackson Hole residents, including two women who were married outside the state but reside here.
“Sue Ann and I just couldn’t be happier,” said Jackson resident Jeri Batistolli, referring to her wife. “It’s terrific. The people of Wyoming have what they want — the ban on gay marriage — and we still have the U.S. Constitution.”
Batistolli, who married Sue Ann Robertson earlier this year, said legislators’ decision to vote down the bill affirmed an ethos that is central to the state’s character.
“It says that the people of Wyoming want to live and let live,” she said. “Whatever your view, they want to be fair.”
Perfect
Maryland House committee will vote tomorrow on gay marriage bill. It is expected to pass. |
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Good to see that even some of the more conservative states are getting more in favour of same-sex marriage and unions.
