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Jul - News - Republicans trying to restrict US abortion funding New poll - New thread - New reply
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Taryn

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Posted on 02-03-11 01:41:19 PM (last edited by Terra at 02-03-11 10:41 AM) Link | Quote
Here.

Looks like the Pubs are really trying to restrict abortions yet again. Looks like if those passes, federal funds for the most part can't be used to fund insurance for abortions. I'm pro-choice and while I don't think pregnant women should be getting abortions right and left just for the hell of it, I think they're useful in cases like rape and teen pregnancy.

Not only that, but they had attempted to define rape in such a way that, well, excludes most cases of rape, but they later gave up on that.

Then, there's this:

Originally posted by New York Times Editorial
A separate Republican bill would deny federal funds for family planning services to any organization that provides abortions. It is aimed primarily at Planned Parenthood’s hundreds of health centers, which also provide many other valuable services. No federal money is used for the abortions. This is a reckless effort to cripple an irreplaceable organization out of pure politics.




Apparently they're trying to shut down Planned Parenthood entirely and they're subscribing to the whole "if you don't want kids, just don't have sex" school of thought that doesn't actually work. It's like abstinence-only sex education.

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Bagel

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Posted on 02-03-11 01:50:00 PM (last edited by Bagel at 02-03-11 11:35 AM) Link | Quote
This stems from the Planned Parenthood "exposé" that "revealed" that there is child sex trafficking going on in secret. The PP employee in question who actually *was* involved in it was fired but it did leave people wondering how widespread it was.

My line of thought -- if a child is the result of rape? Fine, federal funding. If it's the result of being weak-willed? Nope. You made the mistake, you should pay for it, not me.

I also have to disagree that "don't have sex" doesn't work. No sex = no child seems pretty straightforward to me. Why wouldn't it work?

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Taryn

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Posted on 02-03-11 01:53:34 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Bagel
I also have to disagree that "don't have sex" doesn't work. No sex = no child seems pretty straightforward to me. Why wouldn't it work?


Mostly because, well, a lot of people will have sex anyway, even when they don't want children.

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Posted on 02-03-11 02:47:46 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Terra
Originally posted by Bagel
I also have to disagree that "don't have sex" doesn't work. No sex = no child seems pretty straightforward to me. Why wouldn't it work?


Mostly because, well, a lot of people will have sex anyway, even when they don't want children.


Essentially this. Maybe the man does wear a condom every time, but the woman isn't on the pill because she doesn't believe in it, side effects are very unpleasant, it isn't compatible with a more vital medication she's taking, etc. There's apparently a 1% chance the condom doesn't work. Hai, surprise bebeh!

And while I agree that the best way to not have children is to not have sex, it's... kinda in our nature to do it. But mankind has developed all these methods to reduce the chance of pregnancy and to remove a fetus if it were accidental and the parents don't have the capacity nor desire for children yet, or for any other reason that may impact those involved.

I'm actually wondering if Sarah Palin is going to use her daughter and granddaughter as some sort of political weapon against abortion. Because I remember seeing a commercial and it was all 'lol if I weren't a politician's daughter my life would be crap with a baby', when in reality if that were true, she could've aborted the fuck out of it and continue with her life. I dunno, it just felt like the commercial was saying how having the child is the only option instead of abortion or, if you don't like abortion, or if it's too late, adoption. YES, PEOPLE, THERE ARE MORE THAN TWO OPTIONS. ISN'T THAT A SURPRISE?

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Posted on 02-03-11 07:35:52 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Bagel
I also have to disagree that "don't have sex" doesn't work. No sex = no child seems pretty straightforward to me. Why wouldn't it work?
If that's all that's taught, "conventional wisdom" will take over the rest.

You know, things like "you can't get pregnant the first time you have sex", or "having sex while standing up will prevent pregnancy", or "coca-cola applied directly kills sperm". Like it or not, this increases the rate of unwanted pregnancies.

Unfortunately, adoption as it exists in the US right now isn't really a good option for anyone involved, especially if the child isn't white.
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Posted on 02-03-11 07:43:41 PM Link | Quote
Stats
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Metal_Man88's Post
It's the United States of Ignorance is what it is. Increasing pregnancy rates by intentionally misleading people and the death and misery it will cause is nothing short of sickening.

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Posted on 02-04-11 05:23:00 AM Link | Quote
Most Republicans get hoist by their own petard, partially by their upbringing.

If you outlaw weed, they'll find you smoking it.

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Posted on 02-04-11 07:18:43 PM Link | Quote
Paulguy's Post configuration
Originally posted by Bagel
This stems from the Planned Parenthood "exposé" that "revealed" that there is child sex trafficking going on in secret. The PP employee in question who actually *was* involved in it was fired but it did leave people wondering how widespread it was.

My line of thought -- if a child is the result of rape? Fine, federal funding. If it's the result of being weak-willed? Nope. You made the mistake, you should pay for it, not me.

I also have to disagree that "don't have sex" doesn't work. No sex = no child seems pretty straightforward to me. Why wouldn't it work?

Who do you think are the parents who end up screwing up their kids who the go to prison and we have to pay even more for? If they don't want the kid or can't afford or take care of it, you end up with fucked up criminals a good bit of the time, because the parents likely won't give a shit what the kid does. Best to nip the problem in the bud, no matter what the cause is, the price is way lower to prevent the problem than to deal with it once it is a problem. Not that this cost is anything compared to military...

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Posted on 02-04-11 10:24:16 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Bagel
This stems from the Planned Parenthood "exposé" that "revealed" that there is child sex trafficking going on in secret.


are you talking about when that right-wing group attempted to frame them?

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Posted on 02-05-11 06:19:50 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by krutomisi
Originally posted by Bagel
This stems from the Planned Parenthood "exposé" that "revealed" that there is child sex trafficking going on in secret.


are you talking about when that right-wing group attempted to frame them?


Which was lead by none other than James O'Keefe, the guy that made that fake "ACORN" video and likes to pal around with "Defenders of Western Civilization".
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Posted on 02-07-11 04:16:34 PM (last edited by Bagel at 02-07-11 01:17 PM) Link | Quote
Where'd I say that "no sex = no baby" should be the the *only* thing to be taught? Birth control should still be available. I'm only pro-choice insofar as cases of pregnancy from rape -- IMO if you end up with a baby from consensual sex, and you didn't want one, it's your own fault! You should deal with the consequences of your own actions. Can't afford it? Should have used some common sense and not had sex in the first place. Treat it as a learning experience about what not to do, or something.

Mostly because, well, a lot of people will have sex anyway, even when they don't want children.

Maybe they ought to find some other way to spend their time, because that's not exactly the brightest thing to do.

It's not difficult to not have sex. I am not having sex this very moment, as I am typing this. Chances are, you're not, either. See? It's not hard!

If you're not having sex, you're not having a baby. It's probably the easiest way to avoid having one. I don't really understand this whole thing about people having sex anyway -- it doesn't cost anything to abstain. It's not necessary that every single person procreate to further the species or anything anymore. It is not a physical need to have sex. If you're in a situation where it could possibly ruin your life and do it anyway, then you were either not thinking, or were apathetic. Abortion gets treated as the "easy" way out, but people fail to consider the emotional toll -- who *wants* to go through that?

are you talking about when that right-wing group attempted to frame them?


hence the “quotes”

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Posted on 02-07-11 04:43:49 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Bagel
Where'd I say that "no sex = no baby" should be the the *only* thing to be taught? Birth control should still be available. I'm only pro-choice insofar as cases of pregnancy from rape -- IMO if you end up with a baby from consensual sex, and you didn't want one, it's your own fault! You should deal with the consequences of your own actions. Can't afford it? Should have used some common sense and not had sex in the first place. Treat it as a learning experience about what not to do, or something.


If you can't afford abortion, do you honestly believe they would be able to support the child and give at a good life? I'd it would most likely end up with them leaving it in for adoption, or worse. :/


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Posted on 02-07-11 05:05:15 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Karis
If you can't afford abortion, do you honestly believe they would be able to support the child and give at a good life? I'd it would most likely end up with them leaving it in for adoption, or worse. :/


No, I wouldn't expect that at all. The child could indeed be suffering from the mistake of the parent. Not pleasant, obviously, but it happens anyway. What to do from there is up to the parent. I just think that abortion is too ... harsh. No debate about whether a fetus is actually alive or anything, it's just that ... abortion is too commonly chosen as an escape route, something chosen beforehand: "oh, if there's a baby I'll just get an abortion." It shouldn't be so easy.

I'd like to see more people actually stand up and deal with things, even if it may be hard, instead of giving up at the very beginning. It's an unrealistic expectation, I suppose, but I'd rather believe that most people have some kind of strength in them instead of assuming that they're all a bunch of spineless cowards by default.

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Posted on 02-07-11 10:25:11 PM Link | Quote
Actually, I'm with you on that point, I do believe that abortion should not be "a way out".

But on the same time, in today's world where we face over population issues, you'd think that anything that would take down the population without senselessly murdering people would be a good idea, but maybe that's just me.

Though, the main reason I reacted to your earlier statement was mainly this line: "Can't afford it? Should have used some common sense and not had sex in the first place. "

I personally believe that anyone who is at such a state where they can't afford abortion, regardless of the reason why, they should be able to get financial support for it. Though, this is a touchy subject considering how skewed the economics really are in the US.

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Posted on 02-08-11 12:23:04 AM Link | Quote
That's the thing, though. It can only do so much to curb the growth in population, and depending on how late in development the baby is, it could still be viewed as senseless murdering of people. (Just the description of some of them is cringe-inducing.)


It would be better overall, in terms of both money and the minds of the people involved, just to have better sex education. Less large payments, less controversy, less guilty consciences.

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Posted on 02-08-11 12:47:18 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Peardian
It would be better overall, in terms of both money and the minds of the people involved, just to have better sex education. Less large payments, less controversy, less guilty consciences.


It would, that why the Bible thumping sector of the Republican party (or anyone who has no idea that human=animals and therefore have biological urges) wants to keep sex education strictly as abstinence. Sorry kids, no masturbation allowed! It makes you look like a creep AND it's a sin! Sorry kids, no condoms! You're killing innocent babies! Sorry kids, no birth control! We have no idea why!

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Posted on 02-08-11 07:11:49 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Bagel
Abortion gets treated as the "easy" way out, but people fail to consider the emotional toll -- who *wants* to go through that?
I'm glad you're here. Otherwise, I wouldn't know who to ask about the emotional content of every single woman in the world.

Does it hurt to hear the thoughts of 3 billion people?


Put simply, as far as I'm concerned, until it's possible to transfer the embryo from a woman to a man, I have no place in telling said 3 billion people what they can do with their bodies. If I have a one-night stand and the woman gets pregnant, I'm not the one suffering, she is. If I go out and rape someone, and she gets pregnant, I'm not the one suffering, she is. If I'm in a committed relationship and she gets pregnant, I'm still not the one suffering. Barring STDs (the great equalizer!), I'll never be the one dealing with the consequences.
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