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Rick
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Posted on 01-24-11 12:16:47 AM Link | Quote
So is it essentially supposed to be unused but can be dropped under the right circumstances, or is it unused altogether?

I think it's obscure enough to be worth posting, but if it can be accessed somehow, it'd be good info to post up.

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GlitterBerri

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Posted on 01-24-11 12:52:38 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Aeonic Butterfly

(Its really become a pain to find beta Zelda 64 shots since the Zelda Coalition and Zelda Chaos went byebye... ^^;; )


They're not very well organized right now and don't have any commentary, Aeonic Butterfly, but I've reuploaded all the beta screens from ZSO as well as all the prerendered backgrounds found in OoT at my webpage. Hope that helps. =)

I believe as well that ZSO is still mostly intact in archive form at www.archive.org.
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Posted on 01-24-11 01:31:15 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Rick
So is it essentially supposed to be unused but can be dropped under the right circumstances, or is it unused altogether?

I think it's obscure enough to be worth posting, but if it can be accessed somehow, it'd be good info to post up.

I would imagine that it means that the code for such an occurrence exists, but there is no legitimate way for it to ever actually occur.

i.e., it should never happen.

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Aeonic Butterfly
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Posted on 01-24-11 01:50:58 AM (last edited by Aeonic Butterfly at 01-23-11 10:56 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by GlitterBerri
Originally posted by Aeonic Butterfly

(Its really become a pain to find beta Zelda 64 shots since the Zelda Coalition and Zelda Chaos went byebye... ^^;; )


They're not very well organized right now and don't have any commentary, Aeonic Butterfly, but I've reuploaded all the beta screens from ZSO as well as all the prerendered backgrounds found in OoT at my webpage. Hope that helps. =)

I believe as well that ZSO is still mostly intact in archive form at www.archive.org.


Thank you, Glitter. Say, you're also from ZSO, right? XD Seen you before.

If you need any help reorganizing, I'd be interested. ^^

(Would it be out of the interest area of TCRF to upload all the pre-release stuff, sicne it was technically cut? But hardly anything can be recovered from the released game ^^; )
GlitterBerri

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Posted on 01-24-11 07:05:26 AM Link | Quote
Yes, I am from ZSO. I remember you too. ^^

I would love help reorganizing and attaching the correct commentary from ZSO to the appropriate screenshots, that would be ever so awesome of you! They're in the correct sections (A+B Reversed, A+C, etc.) but not in the correct order and not with any sort of contextual information. I could send you the code for the webpage, perhaps, and you could reorganize manually and add anything pertinent? I'd be happy to take turns tackling sections with you, maybe some help would motivate me to actually get it done. Full credit would be given for your efforts, of course! If you'd like to talk to me about this, you can find my contact information on my profile.

Personally, I feel that the development history of games needs a place to be archived as well (one a little more organized than Unseen64) and would tie in nicely with the aims of TCRF, since we archive content that was cut from/changed for the final release, though currently only if it remains in the actual game. So, I'd be for including these on a sub-page.
Liliana
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Posted on 01-24-11 07:09:36 AM Link | Quote
You might also be interested in this.

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Rick
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Posted on 01-24-11 03:20:47 PM Link | Quote
Posted a quickie two-sentence thing about the Mega Man 2 E-Tank drops. Whoever wants to make a code to access said code or just to add to it further, be my guest.

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Aeonic Butterfly
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Posted on 01-24-11 05:39:32 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Prince Kassad
You might also be interested in this.


That is a huuuge help, thank you. =)
Teflon
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Posted on 01-24-11 06:51:20 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by GlitterBerri


Personally, I feel that the development history of games needs a place to be archived as well (one a little more organized than Unseen64) and would tie in nicely with the aims of TCRF, since we archive content that was cut from/changed for the final release, though currently only if it remains in the actual game. So, I'd be for including these on a sub-page.


A while ago I read on this forum about an idea for making a sister wiki for TCRF that does exactly what you're describing. Good idea if you ask me.
Liliana
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Posted on 01-24-11 06:52:42 PM Link | Quote
Dunno if we can handle a second wiki though, since we are already struggling to run one.

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Teflon
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Posted on 01-24-11 06:54:01 PM Link | Quote
It doesn't have to be hosted here. :s
GlitterBerri

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Posted on 01-24-11 08:08:41 PM (last edited by GlitterBerri at 01-24-11 05:10 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Teflon
A while ago I read on this forum about an idea for making a sister wiki for TCRF that does exactly what you're describing. Good idea if you ask me.


It would tie in so much with this one, though, that you think it would be worth separating the two? I mean, consider Final Fantasy VII. It was supposed to have sidequests involving the items Letter to a Wife and Letter to a Daughter, the Sexy Lingerie, and the Mysterious Panties, among a ton of unused dialogue (including scenes to go along with it) and multiple unused Honey Bee Inn rooms, all of which remain in the game. These unused aspects document the history of the game's development. Without the development history, none of the unused content would be there for TCRF to record, and without the unused content, we'd have a far lesser understanding of the development history. With two wikis and all the crossover, we'd be hopping back and forth all the time. Wouldn't it be better to have the entirety of the information in one place?

It makes more sense to me that we document the development history, making notes when an aspect of planned content is still present. This would allow us to make our game pages as complete as possible and attract a wider audience, as many people are curious to see how their favorite movies and games were created. There is also a larger amount of making-of information available out there than there is cut content in a game, which would ensure we'd have work and purpose for a long time.

Those who are wary, fearing this new purpose would require them to divert their attentions from digging for unused and debug content needn't worry. As the wiki is contributed to by volunteers, only those interested in expanding the articles or possessing such development information would trouble themselves to add the additional data.

For costs, I believe a wider audience would ensure more advertisement revenue, but it could also be an idea to host pictures outside of the wiki rather than uploading them directly. That would be more useful to me, at least, since I could directly embed images from my website rather than putting them on TCRF in enormous batches. Reliable, simple hosts such as min.us could also work wonders.

I realize this might be deemed a radical proposition, but there's my two cents.
Aeonic Butterfly
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Posted on 01-25-11 12:44:52 AM Link | Quote
I agree with Glitter on this one; I would think a subsection would be a great idea, rather than a whole 'nother Wiki. It'd be more sane to keep organized, and the Internet really hasn't had a successful source for all things prerelease game.

I mean, X-Cult was a valiant attempt, but as far as I'm concerned, the project is practically dead, and Unseen 64 has a more schizophrenic layout than I can create.
Rachel Mae

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Posted on 01-25-11 03:28:58 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by GlitterBerri
For costs, I believe a wider audience would ensure more advertisement revenue, but it could also be an idea to host pictures outside of the wiki rather than uploading them directly.
This is never going to happen, simply because there is no way we can guarantee the reliability or future availability of any given image host (especially free ones). Sites like ImageShack or tinypic may seem healthy and reliable now, but so did the housing market a few years ago. If the host or user account goes offline with little or no warning, bam! Suddenly the wiki is full of ugly holes, each of which must be repaired manually. Games would need to be replayed, graphics re-ripped, especially if the user that initially uploaded the images is no longer active. It would be a disaster.

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Abaxa
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Posted on 01-25-11 07:44:15 PM Link | Quote
Documenting development history seems outside the main scope of the wiki but I don't perceive any reason individual users would not be able to do their own write-ups as Notes or in a similar style as RationalWiki essays.
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Posted on 01-25-11 11:31:28 PM Link | Quote
I don't see why we can't. Prior discussions involved having seperate areas for media, such as development screenshots and things not actually in the game.

I don't see why we can't have another subpage type for the same thing.


As for external image hosting, why?

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GlitterBerri

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Posted on 01-26-11 01:26:40 AM (last edited by GlitterBerri at 01-25-11 10:28 PM) Link | Quote
I suggested outside image hosting just to save space and not rack up a fortune in server costs. I assumed PK's comment about struggling to run our current wiki was due to space/hosting issues, not mismanagement or inability on the part of the contributors. If it's not necessary, then you can disregard that idea entirely!
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Posted on 01-26-11 01:30:14 AM Link | Quote
Oh, yeah, we're fine; we have 1 TB of bandwidth per month, and even with that huge spike from the Zelda prototype release, we're still using only about 10% of that.


As for RAM and space, we're both very comfortably under limits — about 40% of RAM (if not a bit less) and 40% HDD space, both easily upgraded... and even in worst case, upgrading is just a few bux more a month, and we're good for three months right now. (Donations always welcome, though, contact me if you're feeling generous).


Hotlinking from the server is fine, too; since everything's PNG and optimized bandwidth leeching isn't a real issue yet.

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GlitterBerri

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Posted on 01-26-11 01:31:43 AM (last edited by GlitterBerri at 01-25-11 10:33 PM) Link | Quote
Oh, well, that's perfect then! One less obstacle to having a very complete wiki documenting the development history, cut content, and unseen side of games.
Peardian

  
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Posted on 01-26-11 04:23:50 AM Link | Quote
Having the development history could prove very useful if you can tie it in with the rest of the content, giving at least somewhat of a sense of when elements were cut during development.

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-Peardian-
"Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see." -Mark Twain
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Rusted Logic
Acmlmboard - commit 47be4dc [2021-08-23]
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line 243 column 1215 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 250 column 15 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 250 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 250 column 58 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 250 column 58 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 250 column 101 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 250 column 101 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 250 column 144 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 250 column 144 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 251 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 251 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 251 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 251 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 262 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 287 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 288 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 288 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 288 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 288 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 289 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 299 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 318 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 318 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 329 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 336 column 562 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 344 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 344 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 344 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 344 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 345 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 355 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 362 column 268 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 15 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 58 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 58 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 101 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 101 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 369 column 144 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 369 column 144 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 370 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 370 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 370 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 370 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 381 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 398 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 398 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 398 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 398 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 399 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 409 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 428 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 428 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 439 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 446 column 558 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 454 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 454 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 454 column 111 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 454 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 455 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 465 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 479 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 480 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 480 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 480 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 480 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 481 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 491 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 515 column 15 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 515 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 515 column 58 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 515 column 58 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 515 column 101 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 515 column 101 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 515 column 144 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 515 column 144 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 516 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 516 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 516 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 516 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 527 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 543 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 544 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 544 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 544 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 544 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 545 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 555 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 570 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 570 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 570 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 570 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 581 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 596 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 596 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 596 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 596 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 597 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 607 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 614 column 333 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 619 column 979 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 626 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 627 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 627 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 627 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 627 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 628 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 638 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 653 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 653 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 653 column 113 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 653 column 163 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 654 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 664 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 671 column 333 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 677 column 1383 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 684 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 685 column 22 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 685 column 63 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 685 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 685 column 161 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 686 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 696 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 710 column 17 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 711 column 23 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 711 column 64 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 711 column 112 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 711 column 162 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 712 column 11 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 722 column 15 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 729 column 437 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 732 column 1149 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 743 column 44 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 743 column 142 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 743 column 246 - Warning: <img> proprietary attribute value "absmiddle"
line 752 column 25 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 757 column 267 - Warning: <img> lacks "alt" attribute
line 729 column 363 - Warning: trimming empty <font>
line 737 column 17 - Warning: trimming empty <tr>
line 125 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 141 column 68 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 177 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 205 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 236 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 267 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 304 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 334 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 336 column 74 - Warning: <div> proprietary attribute "width"
line 336 column 379 - Warning: <div> proprietary attribute "width"
line 360 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 386 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 414 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 444 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 446 column 74 - Warning: <div> proprietary attribute "width"
line 446 column 375 - Warning: <div> proprietary attribute "width"
line 470 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 496 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 532 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 560 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 586 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 612 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 643 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 669 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 701 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 727 column 27 - Warning: <nobr> is not approved by W3C
line 731 column 796 - Warning: <td> proprietary attribute "background"
Info: Document content looks like HTML5
Info: No system identifier in emitted doctype
Tidy found 361 warnings and 0 errors!


The alt attribute should be used to give a short description
of an image; longer descriptions should be given with the
longdesc attribute which takes a URL linked to the description.
These measures are needed for people using non-graphical browsers.

For further advice on how to make your pages accessible
see http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL.
You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
the size of HTML files and make them easier to maintain
compared with using <FONT> elements.

You are recommended to use CSS to control line wrapping.
Use "white-space: nowrap" to inhibit wrapping in place
of inserting <NOBR>...</NOBR> into the markup.

About HTML Tidy: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5
Bug reports and comments: https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/issues
Official mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-htacg/
Latest HTML specification: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
Validate your HTML documents: http://validator.w3.org/nu/
Lobby your company to join the W3C: http://www.w3.org/Consortium

Do you speak a language other than English, or a different variant of
English? Consider helping us to localize HTML Tidy. For details please see
https://github.com/htacg/tidy-html5/blob/master/README/LOCALIZE.md