Teflon
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I've been thinking about how to make certain pages look less like a clusterfuck and I came up with a basic layout for pages.
Basically, everything would be divided into sections like "characters", "graphics". Within those sections would be subsections showing off unused content, like "Terra Dancing" under the graphics section or "Megabuster Sword" under the "weapons" section, etc; you get the idea. This would make it easier to find exactly what sort of unused stuff you're looking for on a page. It would be used even if there was one subsection for something just for neatness' sake.
An example of what I'm talking about can be found here.
What do you guys think; good idea, bad idea, could be improved, dumb as hell?
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GlitterBerri
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Sure, seems like a good idea to me. I had to laugh at that page, though. =)
What about when some games have sub-pages with a huge amount of material? (Example here.) Usually the sub-page directory is at the top of the main page for that game. Will we be linking to the sub-page under the appropriate heading now without putting them all at the top? I think I'd like that better, actually.
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Teflon
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| Hmmm, I dunno. On one hand I like them being on the top because they tend to have the most interesting information, but placing links to them in their appropriate place looks better from an organizational POV. Let's see what others think. |
YK
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| This sounds a bit too "Wikipedia" for my tastes. I don't really mind pages not having a hard-and-fast "order", particularly because there's so much that could conceivably go on a page... |
Nicole
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I think it looks better to have the links for subpages at the top, rather than being moved to categories... especially if a whole category is a subpage, then you have a category link in the contents that just leads to a subpage link, which seems a little silly. 
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Teflon
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Originally posted by YK
This sounds a bit too "Wikipedia" for my tastes. I don't really mind pages not having a hard-and-fast "order", particularly because there's so much that could conceivably go on a page...
It's more of a suggestion than a rule. It's designed so that you don't end up with clusterfuck pages like the Pokemon Red & Blue and the SM64 pages that have sections focusing on one thing, like graphics, scattered around the page. |
GlitterBerri
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| I guess I like the Wikipedia approach where everything is nicely organized at the top and clicking on a category gives you a small summary and a link to a larger page covering the topic in more detail. |
Rick
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I don't mind a certain amount of clutter, but I kinda like having everything all in one category and not jumping around. Or if something kind of crosses over into two different categories, use that as a transition piece.
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Tauwasser
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| Posted on 01-22-11 04:16:24 PM (last edited by Tauwasser at 01-22-11 01:17 PM) |
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Originally posted by Teflon
It's more of a suggestion than a rule. It's designed so that you don't end up with clusterfuck pages like the Pokemon Red & Blue [...].
Well, I would like to mention that the Red & Blue page is so messy because the games are so messily coded and the whole situation with different releases in different regions is not easily captured.
I tried to mitigate this by crating a common page for RBGY under which content that applies to some or all of these version can be combined, like the info about the Unknown Dungeon, which itself is supposed to be used as a template to insert the content at any given level inside another article, e.g. by using {{:Pokémon RBGY/Unknown Dungeon|level====}}, which translates to a page transclusion of the namespace-less article with level 3 (three equals signs).
I think this approach could potentially be helpful for other video games as well. Instead of creating sub-pages for this relatively small piece of content, one could create a transclusion article, making sure the text is displayed the same everywhere.
As for the rest of this discussion, a large part of clutter stems from people reporting trial-and-error findings. The whole "identifier" business in Red & Blue as well as multiple "if you use gameshark code XYZ to access invalid level data" cheats really don't make up for quality content.
For instance, I hope a good example is the Pokémon Gold and Silver article. You will ― or so I hope ― only find relevant information there to access relevant data. Special explanation (for instance the tileset naming scheme employed by me, the uploader of the tileset images) is on a special page not cluttering the rest of the article. The same goes for all offsets and ASM code. Single offsets (like the text offsets) can simply be skipped, as can the information if routines have been out-commented. A bigger chunk of ASM went into a sub-page. I hoped to achieve creation of an informative article whilst preserving relevant info for anybody talented enough to look at the actual ASM coding and data.
Generally, while creating and editing said article, I have had occasional doubts as to how technically deep articles should get in general. So far, nobody much of anything claiming irrelevance. A few guidelines would be good for that matter.
Also, while it was low-key for a while, I still am very much in favor of creating a template as discussed here. While I certainly do not want to introduce Wikipedian quality assurance standards in here, I see much uninformed information floating around.
I understand that most 3d-titles, for instance LoZ titles on N64, are very hard to debug/hack or get the information out of as a person simply interested in the matter, but not deeply immersed into it. Nevertheless, IMO this doesn't make up for guesswork sold as fact.
cYa,
Tauwasser
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Tauwasser
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See, and stuff like this is the reason I want to have that "unverified" box. This is likely just a bug. There are no connections and that's why it is pulling up random data as connection data. There is nothing to prove beyond that there is a bug that makes this happen. Much less to post videos of this discovery on Youtube and proclaim the programmers had this in mind all along...
cYa,
Tauwasser
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Nicole
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| Posted on 01-25-11 12:09:49 PM (last edited by Imajin at 01-25-11 09:10 AM) |
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Originally posted by Tauwasser
See, and stuff like this is the reason I want to have that "unverified" box. This is likely just a bug. There are no connections and that's why it is pulling up random data as connection data. There is nothing to prove beyond that there is a bug that makes this happen. Much less to post videos of this discovery on Youtube and proclaim the programmers had this in mind all along...
cYa,
Tauwasser
In Megaman 1 each level is paired with another level for things like room ordering; this is possibly the case in Megaman 2 as well, so this might be more than an "arbitrary glitch", but I'm not sure that it's really worth noting as well... it's just how the levels are stored. I agree that there should be an unverified box type of thing, though...
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Rick
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It actually is true that the levels are smashed together like that. It's mostly just to save space on the cartridge. I used to get into Dr. Wily 2's level with ease on an old NES cart right from Air Man's room by total glitch accident. If you want verification on that fact, there it is.
I even mentioned it long, long ago on David Wonn's glitch site.
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Tauwasser
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Originally posted by Rick
It actually is true that the levels are smashed together like that. It's mostly just to save space on the cartridge. I used to get into Dr. Wily 2's level with ease on an old NES cart right from Air Man's room by total glitch accident. If you want verification on that fact, there it is.
I even mentioned it long, long ago on David Wonn's glitch site.
I don't doubt that the layout is there to save place. However, the article gives undue attention to this bug. It seems to suggest the programmers planned this.
IMO it might be mentioned, however, documenting every bug with youtube videos and other "evidence" is pretty much over-the-top, considering it's just a neglect on the programmers' part.
cYa,
Tauwasser
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TomoAlien
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Originally posted by Tauwasser
Originally posted by Rick
It actually is true that the levels are smashed together like that. It's mostly just to save space on the cartridge. I used to get into Dr. Wily 2's level with ease on an old NES cart right from Air Man's room by total glitch accident. If you want verification on that fact, there it is.
I even mentioned it long, long ago on David Wonn's glitch site.
I don't doubt that the layout is there to save place. However, the article gives undue attention to this bug. It seems to suggest the programmers planned this.
IMO it might be mentioned, however, documenting every bug with youtube videos and other "evidence" is pretty much over-the-top, considering it's just a neglect on the programmers' part.
cYa,
Tauwasser
I agree with you. This wiki was made for unused stuff, not for glitches. I wish there was a game glitches wiki, though... |
Taryn
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Rachel Mae
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| | | | | Originally posted by Sonic Adventure page
The following link is an external text file containing descriptions of glitches in this game.
http://www.geocities.com/rattleman123456/sonic_adventure_glitch_guide_4.75.txt
See, hotlinking to files on a wiki is a great idea! :specialed:
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Nicole
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Originally posted by Waffle Ryebread
Originally posted by Sonic Adventure page
The following link is an external text file containing descriptions of glitches in this game.
http://www.geocities.com/rattleman123456/sonic_adventure_glitch_guide_4.75.txt
See, hotlinking to files on a wiki is a great idea! :specialed:
Yahoo! paid over $3 billion for GeoCities, they're one of the largest free hosts on the internet, you think they'd really just shut it down? Come on. If it's really an issue I can put it on my AOL Hometown.
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Rachel Mae
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| | | | | I'm pretty sure he was joking... 
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