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05-03-22 08:01:44 AM
Jul - News - Arizona rep. Gabrielle Giffords and several others shot at political event New poll - New thread - New reply
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FieryIce

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Posted on 01-09-11 02:09:09 AM Link | Quote
People are already talking about the death penalty ... I don't think I have a strong opinion either way, but my friends say he deserves it.
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Posted on 01-09-11 03:50:51 AM Link | Quote

Originally posted by Gig
The guy was just a sad, disturbed crazy person.

I still find the Palin crosshairs thing despicable, but it doesn't seem related to this incident.


He was apparently very mentally unstable - and considering his ability to separate out fact and fiction (and general level of intelligence) in his video, I'd say it certainly could have been seen as a suggestion to him.

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Posted on 01-09-11 04:05:37 AM Link | Quote

According to ABC News, the authorities are not convinced this was the act of a single person...

In better news, early reports seem positive about Giffords' potential for recovery. (But a single tweet from "a family friends" is hardly definitive, and with a shot to the head...)

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Posted on 01-09-11 04:13:40 AM Link | Quote
The article earlier mentioned that her condition was critical, but that chances of recovery looked good. It said the bullet went all the way through. If she survives, she's very fortunate.


And despite the gun crosshairs metaphor, I really don't think Palin would actually approve of the assassination of her opponents.

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Posted on 01-09-11 04:19:19 AM Link | Quote
That guy repeats himself a lot in his youtube videos. From what I can see/have read he seems like a pretty disturbed individual. The story is all over the news, and all the eyewitness testimonies are crap. Everyone says, "he came in, and like, shot her in the head. We called the cops." That's about it. Hopefully there are more developments about Loughner's (I read it as loner earlier today, lol) punishment.

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Posted on 01-09-11 04:53:26 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Peardian
The article earlier mentioned that her condition was critical, but that chances of recovery looked good. It said the bullet went all the way through. If she survives, she's very fortunate.


And despite the gun crosshairs metaphor, I really don't think Palin would actually approve of the assassination of her opponents.


Tell that to all the people who actually think that and thinks thinking that is good.

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Posted on 01-09-11 10:25:38 AM (last edited by misterj at 01-09-11 08:58 AM) Link | Quote
It's gonna suck how political people will twist this, and forget that it was in reality just a dude who's a bit bonkers doing something aggressive and stupid. But nope, always gotta have a political statement to make and twist it in some way that works for your candidacy's niche. The other sucky part is people will forget about what happened and think nothing of it in a week.


Originally posted by Gabu
Originally posted by Peardian

And despite the gun crosshairs metaphor, I really don't think Palin would actually approve of the assassination of her opponents.

Tell that to all the people who actually think that and thinks thinking that is good.

The fact that the guy is nuts still doesn't give wingnut rabble-rousers a pass (ugh, I hate saying 'wingnut'). It's the nutty people who are the most susceptible to rhetoric they say. I don't think Palin is responsible here (that would be absurd imo), but like it or not, she IS the type of person who is attractive to nutty folks.

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Posted on 01-09-11 06:06:40 PM Link | Quote
Still, though, it's probably fair to say that Palin REALLY screwed up on her rhetoric here, whether it was directly responsible for this or not.

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Posted on 01-09-11 06:14:42 PM Link | Quote
Except Palin's metaphor had nothing to do with this. The guy was clearly insane, considering he read both the communist manifesto and Mein Kampf which are totally against eachother.

He was probably a Post-modern or anarchist extremist. Chances are, he was going to shoot her regardless of what Palin had said before.

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Posted on 01-09-11 06:22:58 PM Link | Quote
One thing I know the media will blow out of proportion is that Loughner was very a kin to reading Mein Kampf, but they won't acknowledge that he reads Plato's The Republic. Don't get me wrong the guy is disturbed, but The Republic was a great influence on people like John Locke and Thomas Jefferson. That is probably one of the places Jared got his ideology from, and if they focus more on Hitler's work than they are going to completely misunderstand Loughner's ideology and rhetoric for the way he behaves.

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Posted on 01-09-11 08:15:50 PM Link | Quote
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Originally posted by Teyla
Except Palin's metaphor had nothing to do with this. The guy was clearly insane, considering he read both the communist manifesto and Mein Kampf which are totally against eachother.


So if I were to read both of those, and Plato's The Republic, I would also be completely insane?


Somehow I think the books he read did not automatically mean he agreed with any of them, but rather, as an insane madman, he drifted from one idea to another, and then eventually something triggered him going all gun-crazy. What did that is unknown at this point, though. Be it his own beliefs or something external--there is even a person of interest who is suggested to perhaps be an accomplice.

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Posted on 01-09-11 10:54:21 PM (last edited by Gabu at 01-09-11 08:00 PM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by Teyla
Except Palin's metaphor had nothing to do with this. The guy was clearly insane, considering he read both the communist manifesto and Mein Kampf which are totally against eachother.

He was probably a Post-modern or anarchist extremist. Chances are, he was going to shoot her regardless of what Palin had said before.


He could have more or less been that, from what I can tell.

Let's just say that if it really is a coincidence that it's a very disturbing coincidence overall, one that a whole lot of people are going to blame Palin on regardless if he followed her or not.



The good news is that Gifford Appears to be responding to simple commands and will likely survive, based on what doctors are saying.

Originally posted by Comcast news
TUCSON, Ariz. — Recovering from a gunshot wound to the head depends on the bullet's path, and while doctors Sunday are optimistic about Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' odds, it can take weeks to months to tell the damage.

Doctors say the bullet traveled the length of the left side of the Arizona congresswoman's brain, entering the back of the skull and exiting the front.

Fortunately, it stayed on one side of her brain, not hitting the so-called "eloquent areas" in the brain's center where such wounds almost always prove fatal.

Importantly, Giffords was responding nonverbally to simple commands in the emergency room — things like "squeeze my hand."

That implies "a very high level of functioning in the brain," said Dr. Michael Lemole of Tucson's University Medical Center, Giffords' neurosurgeon.

Now, her biggest threat is brain swelling. Surgeons removed half of her skull to give the tissues room to expand without additional bruising, Lemole said.

That bone is being preserved and can be reimplanted once the swelling abates, a technique the military uses with war injuries, added his colleague and trauma surgeon Dr. Peter Rhee.

Adding to Giffords' good prospects is that paramedics got her to the operating room in 38 minutes, her doctors said. Now she is being kept in a medically induced coma, deep sedation that rests her brain. It requires a ventilator, meaning she cannot speak. Doctors periodically lift her sedation to do tests and said she continues to respond well to commands.

The brain's left side does control speech abilities and the movement and sensation of the body's right side, Lemole noted. But he wouldn't speculate on lasting damage, saying, "we've seen the full gamut" in such trauma.

That's the mystery of brain injury: There's no way to predict just how much disability a wound that traverses multiple regions will leave, because our neural connections are so individual.

"The same injury in me and you could have different effects," said Dr. Bizhan Aarabi, chief of neurotrauma at the University of Maryland's Shock Trauma Center, who has long studied penetrating brain injuries.

"The belief is if you get shot in the head, you're dead, but it isn't like that," agreed the University of Miami's Dr. Ross Bullock, chief of neurotrauma at Jackson Memorial Hospital. He cared for a man shot in the head with an AK-47 who two years later is back to work full-time and "a normal person."

"Every patient is an individual and more so with a gunshot than anything else," he said.

There are few statistics, but doctors agree that well over 90 percent of gunshot wounds to the head are fatal. Aarabi cited his own study of 600 Maryland cases that found 95 percent were dead before arriving at the hospital.

Survivors have something in common with Giffords, Aarabi said: A good "Glasgow coma score," a way to measure responsiveness, upon arriving at the hospital. That pre-surgery outlook is important because doctors can't reverse the bullet's damage, just remove fragments to fight infection and swelling. Giffords' surgeons said they didn't have to remove a lot of dead brain tissue.

The amount of disability depends on how much damage is done to what brain region. A bullet that crosses into both sides, or hemispheres, can leave extensive lasting damage. That's what happened with James Brady, President Ronald Reagan's press secretary, who was left with slurred speech and uses a wheelchair after being shot during the 1981 assassination attempt on Reagan.

In contrast, one of neurology's most famous cases was Phineas Gage who in 1848 survived a 3-foot iron rod blasting into his skull but suffered personality changes from damage to the prefrontal cortex.

It can take weeks to tell the extent of damage, and months of intense rehabilitation to try to spur the brain's capacity to recover. In addition, more than half of survivors go on to suffer seizures and need anti-epilepsy medication, Miami's Bullock said.

"We talk about recovery in months to years," said Griffords' surgeon Lemole.


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Posted on 01-09-11 11:28:49 PM Link | Quote
That owns. Does not own: The people who are dead.

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Posted on 01-10-11 01:04:22 AM Link | Quote
Also while surfing the net I happened on probably the best quote about the whole situation (now I'm more level headed about it honestly). Sweet bonus: It's from someone I know.

Originally posted by Jitka
Gankro I'm not claiming this would not have happened were it not for Palin and the teabaggers but what I am saying is that their violent rhetoric encourages unstable people down the wrong path.

They are not entirely responsible but you have to be able to see the contribution


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Posted on 01-10-11 09:08:54 AM Link | Quote
That's exactly what I said (And Kles, too) in this thread. :<

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Posted on 01-10-11 09:21:43 PM Link | Quote
Palin had nothing to do with it. Police found stuff in the guy's house where he wrote down he was gonna assassinate someone.



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Posted on 01-10-11 09:29:01 PM Link | Quote

Originally posted by Teyla
Palin had nothing to do with it. Police found stuff in the guy's house where he wrote down he was gonna assassinate someone.



Even that possible accomplice I mentioned earlier seems to have turned out to just be a taxi driver.

But I can't help but wonder what does it say about the rhetoric in use in this country that after a tragedy like this occurs, it's so easy to look at how the rhetoric suddenly looks horrifying?

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Posted on 01-10-11 09:35:09 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Teyla
Palin had nothing to do with it. Police found stuff in the guy's house where he wrote down he was gonna assassinate someone.



Ugh. I think you're missing the point; if you're out there posting pictures of someone with crosshairs on them, and someone ends up shooting them, it doesn't matter. That kind of shit is as unclassy and unwelcome as could possibly be just because of people like this. There are idiots out there that will do it.


You only need to look at shit like the Dr. Tiller assassination (and the many that came before it) to see that.



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Posted on 01-10-11 09:39:03 PM Link | Quote
It doesn't matter if it's unclassy, blaming someone for something they had nothing to do with is just as wrong as the damn pictures. It's nothing more than an attack ad on either side. The problem is, people are focusing on blaming Palin instead of focusing on someone being shot.

In the newspaper about it, two pages about it, Palin not mentioned. All you guys are talking about is her ad.

Maybe it's all of America that something is wrong with. I don't know.

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Posted on 01-11-11 12:55:05 AM Link | Quote
It's just a bad coincidence. It's pretty obvious that Palin didn't have anything to do with this directly, as some of us have already said. If the nutcase had been inspired by Palin's campaign in the wrong way, he probably would have said something about it. There have been other unfortunate coincidences with past tragedies.

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Jul - News - Arizona rep. Gabrielle Giffords and several others shot at political event New poll - New thread - New reply


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