— FPzero —
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Posted on 10-12-10 02:39:14 AM

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Why do I need ModMii if I've already got everything homebrewed? Doesn't seem like I would.

Man, homebrew is such a hassle sometimes...

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Posted on 10-12-10 02:58:24 AM

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Eh, doesn't take that much fiddling around... no idea why Sonic ran just fine for me (still on 4.1) but if not I'd just download the IOS via Wii. No biggie.

Glad that WiiWare games don't prompt you to update the System Menu. (Then again, I have that check disabled for games.)

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Shadic
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Posted on 10-12-10 03:02:21 AM

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Originally posted by FirePhoenix
Why do I need ModMii if I've already got everything homebrewed? Doesn't seem like I would.

ModMii just lets you get to all the IOS versions and crap easily. I'm sure you could get it elsewhere, but eh. I downloaded it today and I'm happy with how it's pretty quick.

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Posted on 10-12-10 03:14:38 AM

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I used DARKCORP installer earlier to get Other M to play back when it came out and i think would do the same that ModMii does. I'll give it a try tomorrow and if it doesn't, I'll check out ModMii.

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Posted on 10-13-10 05:43:46 PM

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I dunno, maybe I was just negative with this game using the sonic 4 name. Because I think it sucks, a lot, the controls are awful the levels boring and the bosses uninteresting. And I beat it in 2 fricken hours. ____________________

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Posted on 10-13-10 11:25:36 PM

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I'm still wondering how Dimps fucked up so bad.

All the advance games were better than this :/

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Lyskar
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Posted on 10-14-10 08:26:21 AM (last edited by Metal_Man88 at 10-14-10 05:47 AM)

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Metal_Man88's Post

I'm afraid I have to disagree. The graphics and music is only average, and the physics wobbly, but the game is in fact decent.

the issue is that people have unrealistic expectations and have forgotten the flaws the previous games had. If DIMPS had released Sonic 3 with HD gloss I would be hearing the same lines of people cursing it. The difference would be that people would hate the overuse of the water levels, find the final boss too gimmicky, and question the special stages.

Nostalgia glasses make people think that the old games were these almighty things. When in reality they were not.

Granted, the physics are a little off, but a video game is meant for fun, not for pixel-to-pixel accurate physics measurement. Indeed, a source of annoyance in the old games is sliding down hills. Is it good physics? Yes. Is it entertaining?

NO.

But people who have replaced interest in fun with simulation of 16 year old games can't see the difference. They made their decision before the game was even made.

And they won't change their minds.

No matter what.

It's a pity, because there is a perfectly decent game in there. Yes, it is short, yes it has flaws. But I can name a large number of flaws in the original games, and I can even curse Sonic Team with flagrant curse words.

But would that make those games horrible either?

No.

Finally, by my reckoning, this is 1/3 to 1/4 of the full game. Hence "Episode I." It's not the Valve meaning, or the George Lucas one. So unless you seriously expect Sonic 4 to total over 75 or 100 acts, you're simply being impatient.

And while I'm at it, let me list some commonalities with the "Physics" complaints with... you guessed it... those games which happen to not be perfect!

Let's see. First, the physics were never the best, unless "Eggman's nefarious holes in the floor that trap you forever" the manual alluded to (AKA glitches) are suddenly realistic physics.

Tails' flying and Knuckles' gliding were always wonky as far as physics go, with sacrifices to smoothness/sanity of physics made in favor of making them fun. Yet no one complains about them, even though being able to smoothly run up hills without a massive head start is somehow now the antichrist.

Excuse me, do you want Sonic 1: Episode 2? Spindash was the original 'grievous error' by this line of thinking, as suddenly you could basically BS your way up any hill. Making it possible to walk up one without any momentum was simply the next step to remove the annoyance of 'slip n' slide' hills.

The next one is simple. Several acts of the old games were filler or often cobbled together with long, desolate stretches. Heck, there's been several identified areas in the acts where the level designers literally made mistakes that were never corrected.

Unless that abrupt hill ending in Emerald Hill Act 2 is suddenly perfect by virtue of being 18 years old?

Now the bosses ain't the best, but to be honest, how much time do you spend fighting them? What do you want, several hour-long bosses? They said they were going to reuse the bosses since long ago. Why would someone play the game if just seeing an old boss would send them into a fit of rage?

And how would such a person survive playing Sonic and Knuckles, where multiple old bosses attack in succession late in the game?

I guess I'll never know though, since old assembly code cobbled together by some guys who were in a terrible hurry is the pinnacle of mankind's achievements and can never be matched, let alone given a modern-day tribute by anyone who isn't just modifying the old 'master code.'

But hey, the Unpleasable Fanbase can't be told to like anything, even if it were the second coming of Jesus Christ according to their wants from 1.5 months ago. They just change their wants so that whoever foolishly tries to please them is forced to run a Red Queen's race--and inevitably, fails, as it's impossible to square what such a fanbase wants with reality.

But then again, I don't know why I bother saying anything, since the people I want to change the minds of most are most likely to not listen to anything, so just ignore this if you happen to disagree.

I just want to put this out there for others like me who dislike and borderline hate the other people who get upset whenever you like something that isn't 'perfect' or 'totally awesome' or so on, as if nothing else but such examples can be allowed to exist.

I can only hope sales of the game make the loud complainers moot.

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Posted on 10-14-10 09:37:49 PM (last edited by vinnyboiler at 10-14-10 08:39 PM)

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Sega really shouldn't of called this Sonic 4.
Nintendo never called NSMB "Super Mario Bros. 4" just because when you say something is a reboot of a series, the fan base is generally more accepting then if you say 'This is the direct sequel to your beloved childhood series'.
Hope that made sense

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BlackNemesis13
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Posted on 10-14-10 10:21:29 PM

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Well I don't give a shit what they call it. All I know is that I like it

This is a complete nostalgia trip for me! I like how its like a combination of all the best past games only modernized. Essentially, the NSMB treatment which IMO, this series has needed desperately. I even like the physics although parts of them do take some getting used to (like why do you suddenly run out of momentum mid jump?) Anyway, I'm happy with this, and I can't wait for episode 2!

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Posted on 10-15-10 12:44:18 AM

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Metal_Man88's Post

Also, if you had a full map select and save between act capability, pretty much all of the original Sonics would take under 3-4 hours to beat, so I don't get where the length complaints come from.

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Shadic
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Posted on 10-15-10 12:57:58 AM

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Length complains are pretty dumb, especially when you factor in the cost.

However, the physics are crap. They've been using the Rush Engine for what, five years now? And they still can't figure out how a ball should roll, and that Sonic should not stand on near-vertical slopes:
derp

This is in my first... 4 minutes of playing?

Super Mario Bros - A game 25 years old - wasn't perfect by any means, but at least it was designed well. And it felt right. Making Mario move was felt natural. Making Sonic move in Sonic 4 is not.

Like the game if you want, but I'm not going to hold back complaints because I'll be called an oldschool Sonic fanboy. Shit, the only "classic" game I liked was S3&K. Besides, it seems like complaints are the only thing that will push Dimps to make a slightly better Episode 2.

If all the easily-entertained Sonic fans got all they wanted, Sonic 4 would have been the crappy Partnernet leak, and we'd probably be looking at a few more "Sonic '06"es in the future. This isn't the "Bawwhhh, green eyes," type of complaint, this is a "The game is inferior to most mediocre side-scrolling games made fifteen years ago" complaint.

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Posted on 10-15-10 01:24:45 AM

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Originally posted by Metal_Man88
Also, if you had a full map select and save between act capability, pretty much all of the original Sonics would take under 3-4 hours to beat, so I don't get where the length complaints come from.

2 Hours from start to finish, playing all acts in order. First try no game overs. It was a tad bit too short.

Of course I didn't get the emeralds, but I'm not gonna bother when I don't even like playing the game.

Because it isn't fun. I gave it 2 hours to prove that it was fun, and it really wasn't.

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Posted on 10-15-10 02:00:01 AM

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I saw a video of... whatever the Casino zone is, and I was impressed. The level design and gimmicks definitely had the classic ring to them (since some of it was straight from the games). I also like the look of the bonus stages. I wasn't sure before, but now I want to try this game. Maybe I'll even try and get all the emeralds this time, too.

And I think Metal_Man88 hit it right on the head. It's an unpleasable fanbase, and even those of us here demonstrate that. It's too bad that the ones who don't enjoy the game won't be as satisfied as the ones that do.

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Posted on 10-15-10 02:16:40 AM (last edited by Orlandu at 10-14-10 11:16 PM)

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	I got this on my iPhone and was disappointed. The controls aren't very easy anyway but I just couldn't keep the run speed up well enough to get in to it. Thankfully I didn't have to pay for it so I didn't really lose out. But I probably won't be playing it and eventually delete it when space is needed. This was my first Sonic game since I played one on my GameGear so many years ago. Before it was just too hard, now its just too crappy. ____________________

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Posted on 10-15-10 02:32:07 AM

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Remember these are in episodes, this is all feedback for Sega that will help made the next episode better.

They will change the physics, I'm sure of it. Sega is really trying to please the fan base this time (like changing the mine-kart level).

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Shadic
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Posted on 10-15-10 03:10:11 AM

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Originally posted by Peardian
It's an unpleasable fanbase, and even those of us here demonstrate that. It's too bad that the ones who don't enjoy the game won't be as satisfied as the ones that do.

Not really. A decent chunk of people were fans of Unleashed. (Wasn't my cup of tea, but I only had the Wii version) Also, the level gimmicks themselves are decently done, for the most part. The stack of cards is actually really cool. I don't think it's really fair for you to positively judge the game until you've played it - just like it's unfair to judge the game negatively until one has played it as well.

And how willing they are to change the physics very likely depends on the fan's reaction.

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Posted on 10-15-10 03:36:42 AM (last edited by Peardian at 10-15-10 12:37 AM)

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@Orlandu: Maybe you should try playing it on a real gaming device with actual buttons. The controls might be easier that way.

@Shadic: What are you talking about? Sonic Unleashed is a perfect example of the unpleasable fanbase. We love the day stages, but hate the night stages. We love the night stages but hate the day stages. Sonic goes too fast. He should be faster! Sonic goes too slow. He should go slower! There shouldn't be any night stages. There shouldn't be any day stages. There should be more worlds. There shouldn't be adventure field areas. There shouldn't be temples. There shouldn't be Chip. Chip is the best! There was too much story. There wasn't enough story. I could go on.

And I'm just giving my impression from the video. I'm not declaring it a great game or anything.

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Posted on 10-15-10 03:47:48 AM

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Pretty hard to get a Metacritic read on it because we're dealing with 3 different platforms... Scores so far are 82 for Wii, 80 for PS3 and 73 (

) for 360. User scores, however, are in the 4.0-5.0 range.

Metal_Man88 brought up a great point; you're not going to please everyone. The fanbase has a specific vision of what they want the next Sonic to be like and the hardcore fans aren't going to accept anything less. Trust me, we'll be having the exact same argument once Sonic Colors comes out, regardless on how critically acclaimed it is.

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Posted on 10-15-10 03:52:18 AM

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No, that's an example of people having differing opinions. Otherwise they'd be homogeneous fanboys, and I'm sure you'd complain about that as well.

Most Sonic fans (even the hardcore ones) are more rational than what you're saying. And even if Unleashed wasn't their cup of tea, (Wasn't mine, for sure) they can appreciate it as being vastly improved from previous "efforts" in the series - such as Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic '06. I think you're making a fundamental attribution error regarding negative reactions towards the game.

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