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Jul - Gaming - Donkey Kong Country Returns New poll - New thread - New reply
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Rena
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Posted on 09-18-10 08:18:21 PM Link | Quote
09-18-10 03:18:21 PM
Post #3633
DKC for Wii.

It sounds pretty awesome, until...
The only functionality change of note – and we’re not sure it’s a good one – is the addition of a few motion controls. DK’s rolling motion is now activated by shunting the remote to the side, and certain platforms can be beaten into submission with your ape-hands by shaking the controllers up and down like some kind of enraged primate.
once again Nintendo has to fuck up a good thing by sticking motion control gimmicks where they don't belong.

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Posted on 09-18-10 08:22:11 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Rena
Nintendo


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Posted on 09-18-10 08:32:34 PM Link | Quote
Oh wow, I was just going to make a statment in this topic saying that I have doubts that anyone can reach the level of quality that rare did with the series.

The worst part is, it seams I don't even have to prove that point myself. :/

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Posted on 09-18-10 08:44:24 PM (last edited by Peardian at 09-18-10 05:46 PM) Link | Quote
I don't know about you guys, but I like motion controls like this. Given how Retro handled the controls in Metroid Prime 3, I'm looking forward to it.


And you know you all are still going to buy it and enjoy it.

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Posted on 09-18-10 09:57:46 PM Link | Quote
I must actually admit that I'm not a really big fan (and by that I simply mean that I'm not a huge fan, I still like the games! ) of the DKC series. I played the first game a lot over at a friends place, but then I moved away and did not really experience the series any more...

That being said, I do have DK land 2 for the GB, which is one of those games I played a lot as a kid but was too damn hard to beat. (DAMN YOU ROOLERCOASTER LEVELS!!!! )

That being said though, it would be good to have some more 2d platforming games to play, I have been lacking quite a bit of them to play lately. Then again, now with other M and the new Kirby I don't think I can afford much more. The wii points I have are saved for la mulana.

(wait, it just hit me that this might be a retail release.... uh... confused!)



Rant about motion controls:
Keep in mind that I'm getting worked up a lot about this, but it tends to backfire on me, most of the time. Try and not rage on me even though I sound angry in my arguments. :<

Originally posted by Peardian
I don't know about you guys, but I like motion controls like this. Given how Retro handled the controls in Metroid Prime 3, I'm looking forward to it.


And you know you all are still going to buy it and enjoy it.


See, I did not have any issues with the first part of your post, it makes perfect sense for everyone to not agree.

But I just don't like when people assume that everyone will like things anyway. :/

Not to mention I really hated the motion controls in Prime 3. Aiming and all is fine, turning switches and using the grappling beam is fucking terrible and none responsive at all. Most of the time you can get past said things by going uber slow with your movements, but one should not really HAVE to do that.

FYI: Prime 1 and 2 worked great with the motion controls for aiming only, so after I played those with it, it became strikingly obvious why prime 3 was terrible in the control aspect, this is of course my own opinion.


Motion control on it's own is not bad, it's just how you use it. When something works better doing with the buttons, they it SHOULD be maped to the buttons and not some crazy motion control. It's like taking SMB, but instead of mario jumping by pressing A/1 button, you have to flip the wiimote in the air to make him do it. Or hell, have him walk left/right by tillting the wiimote in said direction. It would just take away from the game rather then adding to it.

SMG (and SMG2) games are an example of a good way to implement it to add to the game play experience. You can shake the wiimote for extra height, but this is for the most part not needed, not to mention it feels very natural and responsive to do it. (SMG2 went further with this, but it's for player who beat the first one, so, yeah.) You CAN also collect star bits by pointing the wiimote at them, but you don't have too as you can run into them with mario anyway, etc.


I think I lost my point somewhere up there, but I just hate when motion controls ruins a game. It can be done good, but most of them time my experience with it is bad. :/

Fun fact: one could take the same argument for the DS but with other games :specialed:


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Posted on 09-18-10 10:10:07 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Lunaria
Fun fact: one could take the same argument for the DS but with other games :specialed:


<object width="480" height="385"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mdvTcMTtXL8?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

I like a lot of the DS-Stylus control stuff. I mean, a lot of my favorite DS games would be a lot worse without them.


I think know the reason why they moved the roll to the shake command. They want the game to be able to be played with the wiimote sideways, and pressing A/B would be awkward while doing things fast. If they have the controls as tight as NSMBwii, then this will be fine.



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Posted on 09-18-10 10:40:50 PM Link | Quote
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Posted on 09-18-10 10:55:48 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Shadic
There's a massive difference between touch-screen stuff and motion control. Especially when waggling is basically just considered a button.

Hopefully it'll be like NSMB Wii in this regard, where it's such a simple gesture that it feels natural. As long as I don't have to point at the screen to play, I'm sure it'll be great. I love DKC and I'm extremely excited for this title.

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Posted on 09-19-10 01:16:24 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by yde
Originally posted by Shadic
There's a massive difference between touch-screen stuff and motion control. Especially when waggling is basically just considered a button.

Hopefully it'll be like NSMB Wii in this regard, where it's such a simple gesture that it feels natural. As long as I don't have to point at the screen to play, I'm sure it'll be great. I love DKC and I'm extremely excited for this title.

Exactly! I love the DKC series, but I'm not expecting this to be on par with Rare in any way. I'm expecting this to be NSMB Wii but with Donkey Kong characters. As long as the motion control is similar to how NSMB Wii did it, I'm not going to have any problems with this.


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Posted on 09-19-10 03:10:21 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Lunaria
Rant about motion controls

I was half joking with that second part. Many people who go and rant about little things like this still end up buying it anyway.


I understand your point, but I have good faith that Retro (and Nintendo in overseeing them) will make it feel just as natural as Mario. I know you didn't like MP3's motion controls, but to me things like ripping stuff off with the grapple beam felt very natural. From the sounds of it, DKCR won't have that level of motion controls but more on the level of NSMBW.


Fun Fact: When playing NSMB for the DS I now catch myself shaking the DS to try and get more air.

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Posted on 09-19-10 03:20:08 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by yde
Originally posted by Shadic
There's a massive difference between touch-screen stuff and motion control. Especially when waggling is basically just considered a button.

Hopefully it'll be like NSMB Wii in this regard, where it's such a simple gesture that it feels natural. As long as I don't have to point at the screen to play, I'm sure it'll be great. I love DKC and I'm extremely excited for this title.


yde basically sums up all my feelings. I'm looking forward to this game so much, mainly for the co-op. Need another simple to use co-op game for the fiancée.

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Rena
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Posted on 09-19-10 03:27:40 AM Link | Quote
09-18-10 10:27:40 PM
Post #3640
DS has the same problem. Especially for the first year or so, games using the touchscreen where buttons would be far more appropriate is quite common. Use the D-pad to steer? No, use the touch screen! Press A to jump? No, touch this little icon!

One particularly bad example, though unofficial, is the DS Action Replay. The interface is completely touchscreen-based. By which I mean there are up, down, and enter buttons on the touchscreen, to navigate the menu on the top screen. Yeah. The buttons don't do anything; you touch the exact same buttons on the screen instead. Oh, Datel...

It happens in reverse sometimes too. I often find myself wishing I could touch the screen to direct my character in Soul Silver, and while you can navigate the menus with the buttons, you frequently have to press A once just to enable the cursor (even if you're just going to then press B to cancel).

Then too a lot of games implement motion or touch controls, but badly. Like in Twilight Princess, you swing your Wiimote to swing your sword. Yay! But you have no control over speed or direction. Any swing you do results in the exact same slash every time. (Meanwhile the fishing rod is completely motion-sensitive the way you wish the sword was. Hoo boy virtual fishing sure is fun.)


As for DKC in particular, aside from probably-awkward motion controls where there shouldn't be... I really like the sound of some of those graphic effects. (How long until we see a sunset-silhouette level in an SMW hack? ) The running along the background actually sounds like something out of a Paper Mario game.

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Posted on 09-19-10 04:56:17 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Lunaria
Oh wow, I was just going to make a statment in this topic saying that I have doubts that anyone can reach the level of quality that rare did with the series.

After DK64 and the GBA remakes, I have doubts Rare could reach the level of quality that Rare did with the series.

In all seriousness though, I am looking forward to this a bit, I'll probably at least give it an honest try once it comes out.
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Posted on 09-20-10 02:32:22 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Keitaro
Originally posted by Lunaria
Oh wow, I was just going to make a statment in this topic saying that I have doubts that anyone can reach the level of quality that rare did with the series.

After DK64 and the GBA remakes, I have doubts Rare could reach the level of quality that Rare did with the series.

In all seriousness though, I am looking forward to this a bit, I'll probably at least give it an honest try once it comes out.

Oh man, I found the GBA remakes terrible. Loved DK64 though.

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Posted on 09-20-10 02:51:20 AM (last edited by BlackNemesis13 at 09-19-10 11:52 PM) Link | Quote
DK64 was good in its own right, but imo, it didn't have the same feel as the DKC series, and was closer in tone to Banjo-Tooie more than anything. DK64, Banjo-Tooie, and Conker's Bad Fur Day were like Rare's "darker" period. They were all good games, but at the same time it was like they were raping my childhood and fond memories of the earlier games they were based on by making everything more depressing and dark humor. I prefer the feel of DKC, Banjo-Kazooie, and Diddy Kong Racing to the three later games any day, even though the later games are still extremely awesome.

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Posted on 09-20-10 02:57:14 AM Link | Quote
And how much collecting do you need to do in DK64?

(You can replace "DK64" with "most Rare N64 games" in that sentence.)

As long as the motion controls aren't awkward and fit into the fast-paced gameplay, they'll be fine. Retro isn't an incompetent developer.

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Posted on 09-20-10 05:19:02 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Rena
DS has the same problem. Especially for the first year or so, games using the touchscreen where buttons would be far more appropriate is quite common. Use the D-pad to steer? No, use the touch screen! Press A to jump? No, touch this little icon!

One particularly bad example, though unofficial, is the DS Action Replay. The interface is completely touchscreen-based. By which I mean there are up, down, and enter buttons on the touchscreen, to navigate the menu on the top screen. Yeah. The buttons don't do anything; you touch the exact same buttons on the screen instead. Oh, Datel...


Hrm. Just try entering text or a code on the thing using the on-screen keyboard/buttons. Fun. Especially when they don't seem to respond right to taps. (And that goes for the final code entry button, too. )

Originally posted by Rena
Then too a lot of games implement motion or touch controls, but badly. Like in Twilight Princess, you swing your Wiimote to swing your sword. Yay! But you have no control over speed or direction. Any swing you do results in the exact same slash every time.


They were probably being paranoid about people going overboard while swinging their Wii remote around like a sword and pitching it into a wall or someone else, again.

Originally posted by Rena
As for DKC in particular, aside from probably-awkward motion controls where there shouldn't be... I really like the sound of some of those graphic effects. (How long until we see a sunset-silhouette level in an SMW hack? ) The running along the background actually sounds like something out of a Paper Mario game.


Great. Make me imagine Paper Donkey Kong Country, why don't you.
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Posted on 09-20-10 10:10:47 AM Link | Quote
DK64 felt like Banjo Kazooie with Donkey Kong slapped on top of it (I guess from a technical standpoint it probably WAS, but uh...) Now, not that I'm saying this is a bad thing, as Banjo Kazooie was indeed an awesome game. It just didn't feel like a natural transition going from DKC3 to...THAT.
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Posted on 09-20-10 10:16:43 AM Link | Quote
I never really considered how different DK64 was from DKC because... well, it was the N64, and lots of things were changing around. DK64 felt like the natural next step when comparing SM64 to SMB. I never actually did finish the game, though.


Battle mode sure was awesome, though.

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Posted on 09-20-10 10:52:19 AM Link | Quote
Thing is, SM64 while being an obviously radically different approach in terms of mechanics, still kept a lot of the things that made the series feel like it belonged in the Marioverse.

They turned Funky Kong in to an arms dealer who converted fruit in to ammunition. Need I say more
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