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05-03-22 01:45:04 PM
Jul - News - Same-sex marriage in the United States New poll - New thread - New reply
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FieryIce

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Posted on 06-16-10 10:15:48 PM Link | Quote
Olson's last words:


O: We relied on a definition of marriage as I pointed out was supported by 14 Supreme Court decisions on privacy and other issues. Mr. Cooper has cited some appellate court decisions. With all due respect, the 134 year history of Supreme Court rulings on marriage trumps that. Then we had experts testify on immutability—all kinds of evidence on that. No idea how my opponent can say it’s a matter of choice. Some people may change. But it’s a characteristic and the experts testified. Supreme Court decisions, testimony by eight of the best experts in the world and the animus behind Prop. 8 and then Mr. Blakenhorn came over to our side (laughter).
O: Then Mr. Cooper cited High Tech Gays case was in 1990. I must have heard that in his testimony six or eight times. It relied on Bowers. Bowers has since been reversed by Texas. Cites case that talks about immutability. Points your honor to 9th circuit opinion which guides.
O: No we get to gender discrimination. Choice of gender of whom you want to marry leaves some out. It’s about a fundamental right to marry, not to marry in June or some other time, but to marry whom you love. Can’t rely on post-hoc. We have to take a group of people who have bee victims of discrimination and we want to foreclose them from a basic right_ marriage. Strict scrutiny, rational basis or something in between, you have to have a good reason to take those rights away. “I don’t know” doesn’t cut it when you take a basic right from a group is not good enough. 14 Supreme Court cases, including Romer and Lawrence that says sexual orientation is private. You cannot say that we are taking away the intimate rights and take away your freedom to marry. Not acceptable under our constitution.
O: Mr. Blankenhorn is right. The day that ends, America will be better off. Thank you, your honor.


And that concludes the case, now the wait begins for a ruling. It's speculating time xD
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Posted on 06-19-10 03:17:59 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by FieryIce
Originally posted by Zero One
Why would people be allowed to sue the church?


Anyone can sue a church. A very broad ruling could allow the affected to successfully sue the Church of Latter Day Saints and perhaps the Catholic Church for their involvement in Prop 8. Churches shouldn't be involved in state affairs, if they get sued I say they deserved it.


...Unfortunately, again, the church alone would be unable to appease such a sheer number of lawsuits. Money would be coming out of other people's pockets.

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Posted on 06-19-10 08:38:52 PM Link | Quote
RahanAkero

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Posted on 06-21-10 12:22:11 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Viola

In California especially, a major ruling in favor of same sex marriage would entitle thousands, if not hundreds, to sue the church. Try to think of a hundred lawsuits happening at once, because I guarantee you the church wouldn't be able to pay it by themselves.


This isn't a small, corner-of-your-street church that's bein' sued. The lawsuits would be directed at the central entity (For example, The Church of Latter-Day Saints), as opposed to specific temples/churches/etc. This is a religious organization that takes in an estimated $5 billion a year. Hundreds of lawsuits won't mean anything, aside from them losing some money for dicking with a governmental proceeding that they have no right to be involved in.

Iron wall of seperation: I won't tell you how to run your religion, so keep the fuck out of my government.

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FieryIce

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Posted on 07-02-10 01:30:40 PM (last edited by FieryIce at 07-02-10 10:40 AM) Link | Quote
To those that read my last thread, Supreme Court rules that Christian group can't bar gays and get funding, apparently that has a lot of implications on our same-sex marriage case, as Ted Boutrous just sent this email to Judge Walker:



The Honorable Vaughn R. Walker
Chief Judge of the United States District Court
for the Northern District of California
450 Golden Gate Avenue
San Francisco, California 94102
Re: Perry v. Schwarzenegger, Case No. C-09-2292 VRW

Dear Chief Judge Walker:

I write on behalf of Plaintiffs to bring to the Court’s attention yesterday’s decision in Christian Legal Society v. Martinez, No. 08-1371 (U.S. June 28, 2010) (attached hereto as Exhibit A).

In Christian Legal Society, the Supreme Court definitively held that sexual orientation is not merely behavioral, but rather, that gay and lesbian individuals are an identifiable class. Writing for the Court, Justice Ginsburg explained: “Our decisions have declined to distinguish between status and conduct in this context.” Slip op. at 23 (citing Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558, 575 (2003); id. at 583 (O’Connor, J., concurring in judgment); Bray v. Alexandria Women’s Health Clinic, 506 U.S. 263, 270 (1993)). This confirms that a majority of the Court now adheres to Justice O’Connor’s view in Lawrence, where she concluded that “the conduct targeted by [the Texas anti-sodomy] law is conduct that is closely correlated with being homosexual” and that, “{u}nder such circumstances, [the] law is targeted at more than conduct” and “is instead directed toward gay persons as a class,” id. at 583 (O’Connor, J., concurring in judgment) (emphasis added). See also Romer v. Evans, 517 U.S. 620 (1996) (treating gay and lesbian individuals as a class for equal protection purposes). The Court’s holding arose in response to Christian Legal Society’s argument that it was not discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation, but rather because gay and lesbian individuals refused to acknowledge that their conduct was morally wrong. The Court rejected that argument, holding that there is no distinction between gay and lesbian individuals and their conduct.

In his closing argument, counsel for Proponents claimed that High Tech Gays v. Defense Industrial Security Clearance Office, 895 F.2d 563 (9th Cir. 1990), and its dubious statement that “homosexuality is not an immutable characteristic; it is behavioral,” id. at 573, forecloses heightened scrutiny in this case. But as this Court explicitly recognized at the hearing on Proponents’ motion for summary judgment, High Tech Gays, which relied on the now-overruled Bowers v. Hardwick, 478 U.S. 186 (1986), rested on a moth-eaten foundation.
To the extent that anything is left of High Tech Gays after Lawrence, Christian Legal Society has abrogated it entirely.


Respectfully submitted,
/s/ Theodore J. Boutrous, Jr.
Theodore J. Boutrous Jr.
Counsel for Plaintiffs
TJB/eam Attachment


An insight on how the Supreme Court will rule? Apparently we're making a lot of progress with all those small cases reaching SCOTUS lately...
FieryIce

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Posted on 07-05-10 03:03:33 AM (last edited by FieryIce at 07-05-10 12:04 AM) Link | Quote
I've requested that the thread title be updated so we can more freely talk about gay marriage in the USA - and not just the Perry v. Schwarzenegger trial. I've also updated the first post!

For an update, here's the defense's reply to the letter I posted in the above post (on the SCOTUS ruling): http://www.scribd.com/doc/33755785/Doc-699
Kit
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Posted on 07-05-10 09:51:12 PM Link | Quote
While I don't really have any serious input, Jul sums up my opinions of how I feel about the matter before I even read anything;



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FieryIce

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Posted on 07-05-10 10:08:18 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kit
While I don't really have any serious input, Jul sums up my opinions of how I feel about the matter before I even read anything;




So, you think same-sex marriage is hot?
Zero One
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Posted on 07-05-10 11:41:29 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by FieryIce
Originally posted by Kit
While I don't really have any serious input, Jul sums up my opinions of how I feel about the matter before I even read anything;




So, you think same-sex marriage is hot?


Greatest coincidence of all time. Of all time!

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Posted on 07-05-10 11:46:12 PM Link | Quote
I seem to recall an Acmlm's-era image of the HOT icon showing up next to a thread entitied "Breasts"

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Posted on 07-06-10 12:41:00 AM Link | Quote


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Posted on 07-06-10 12:42:01 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Xkeeper



Yes please.

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Kit
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Posted on 07-06-10 02:15:31 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by FieryIce
Originally posted by Kit
While I don't really have any serious input, Jul sums up my opinions of how I feel about the matter before I even read anything;




So, you think same-sex marriage is hot?


It's generally one of the opinions you get when you're gay, yes.

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Zero One
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Posted on 07-06-10 02:35:46 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by FieryIce
Originally posted by Kit
While I don't really have any serious input, Jul sums up my opinions of how I feel about the matter before I even read anything;




So, you think same-sex marriage is hot?


Depends on the sex

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Kit
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Posted on 07-06-10 02:39:46 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zero One
Originally posted by FieryIce
Originally posted by Kit
While I don't really have any serious input, Jul sums up my opinions of how I feel about the matter before I even read anything;




So, you think same-sex marriage is hot?


Depends on the sex




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Posted on 07-06-10 02:42:04 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kit
Originally posted by Zero One
Originally posted by FieryIce
Originally posted by Kit
While I don't really have any serious input, Jul sums up my opinions of how I feel about the matter before I even read anything;




So, you think same-sex marriage is hot?


Depends on the sex





We all saw that coming.


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Zero One
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Posted on 07-06-10 03:39:55 AM Link | Quote
I'm a 16 year old male. It's genetic.

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Kit
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Posted on 07-06-10 07:05:00 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Zero One
I'm a 16 year old male. It's genetic.


Hi.

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Zero One
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Posted on 07-06-10 07:51:20 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kit
Originally posted by Zero One
I'm a 16 year old male. It's genetic.


Hi.


Uh, hi?

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FieryIce

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Posted on 07-06-10 09:15:11 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Kit
Originally posted by FieryIce
Originally posted by Kit
While I don't really have any serious input, Jul sums up my opinions of how I feel about the matter before I even read anything;




So, you think same-sex marriage is hot?


It's generally one of the opinions you get when you're gay, yes.


Ah, so you're gay as well. Didn't know that

Talking about same-sex marriage being hot for some (depending on the sex, I assume Zero meant two woman?) Here's a lesbian marriage for you: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hSl5aRhJRk0Y00xcnrpK-4eWlz0gD9GLP4484

The president of Iceland marries another woman, first country with a lesbian leader, first country with a leader in a same-sex marriage.
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Jul - News - Same-sex marriage in the United States New poll - New thread - New reply


Rusted Logic

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