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Jul - Gaming - Pokemon Black and White New poll - New thread - New reply
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Dan Hibiki
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Talks mostly in pictures.

"I dislike the art of fighting, but I want to be the king of fighters!"
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Posted on 06-17-10 01:42:45 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Lunaria
I don't want to argue about it.
And yet, here you are.

Since when are Pokemon all dolled up like Digimon? Digimon are incredibly detailed. That's the art style. It's a completely different game in a completely different artisti- You know what? I don't care anymore. This is like arguing with a vanilla WoW fan-boy about Wrath of the Lich King or Cataclysm.

I guess I just like pointing out inaccuracies in cited material to be used as a basis of discussion.

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Xkeeper

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Posted on 06-17-10 03:06:41 AM (last edited by Xkeeper at 06-17-10 12:08 AM) Link | Quote
Originally posted by The Accidental Protege
If you can find a way to put 600 3D creatures with unique animations into a DS cart, by all means, I'd love to hear it.
I'd say, "Wait for the 3DS", but no one wants to wait that long for the next Pokemon game (god forbid).

Pokemon Stadium 2 (US) had 250+ little buggers in it, with a bunch of other stuff too.

It was also a 64 MB game.


DS cards go up to 512 MB.


Take off your cap and gown, because you just got schooled.

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Posted on 06-17-10 03:53:45 AM Link | Quote
On the subject of sprites, take a look at the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games. Not only do they have every single Pokémon with gender differences taken into account, they have 4-10+ animation poses for every single one in eight directions, plus additional animations for the starters. Oh, and portrait pics for each one. Also consider that both games contain a large number of unique and highly detailed locations. What's the surprise? The PMD rom is half the size as D/P's. The Mystery Dungeon games have a very limited range of sound effects, whereas the main games have a full sound clip for every single Pokémon cry and most attacks.


So, is the lack of animations in DP for the artistic style or resource consideration? Or both? Who knows, who cares.

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Posted on 06-17-10 04:00:11 AM Link | Quote
Supakitsune
Originally posted by Peardian
On the subject of sprites, take a look at the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games. Not only do they have every single Pokémon with gender differences taken into account, they have 4-10+ animation poses for every single one in eight directions, plus additional animations for the starters. Oh, and portrait pics for each one. Also consider that both games contain a large number of unique and highly detailed locations. What's the surprise? The PMD rom is half the size as D/P's. The Mystery Dungeon games have a very limited range of sound effects, whereas the main games have a full sound clip for every single Pokémon cry and most attacks.


So, is the lack of animations in DP for the artistic style or resource consideration? Or both? Who knows, who cares.
All the locations in Mystery Dungeon are randomly generated, thus no maps are stored.
All the various Pokemon sprites in MD are about 24x24 for small, something closer to 64x64 for larger mons, and about 32x32 for portraits, though. I'm not sure exactly. Meanwhile, Pokemon in D/P and onwards are stored at 80x80.

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Rachel Mae

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Posted on 06-17-10 08:50:22 AM (last edited by Gunstar Green at 06-17-10 05:52 AM) Link | Quote
I'm pretty sure the sprites take up a fairly small amount of ROM space. Pokemon sprites are very likely 4 bits per pixel, or 16 colors. A single 80x80 px graphic = 6400 px total / 2 (4 bpp = 2 pixels per byte) = 3200 bytes, before compression (which is natively supported by the DS hardware). Even without compression, 600 individual 80x80 sprite frames would only take up 1,920,000 bytes. Not too bad, really, considering the ROM sizes available nowadays.

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Posted on 06-17-10 11:23:46 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Supakitsune
All the locations in Mystery Dungeon are randomly generated, thus no maps are stored.
All the various Pokemon sprites in MD are about 24x24 for small, something closer to 64x64 for larger mons, and about 32x32 for portraits, though. I'm not sure exactly. Meanwhile, Pokemon in D/P and onwards are stored at 80x80.

Yes, this is true, but I don't imagine map data would take up that much space anyway, especially with a good compression method on a level that basically consists of three tile types.


On the other hand, each of large and unique friend areas in PMD1 and story cutscene locations would take up a considerably large chunk of data. Almost every single tile is unique, and there are no less than 50 of them. Who knows how much space they truly take up, but they are really pretty.

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plushifoxed

King Yoshi
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Posted on 06-18-10 01:09:37 AM Link | Quote
Supakitsune
Originally posted by Peardian
Yes, this is true, but I don't imagine map data would take up that much space anyway, especially with a good compression method on a level that basically consists of three tile types.
Gen4 maps are 3D models.

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Xkeeper

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Posted on 06-18-10 02:57:49 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Supakitsune
Originally posted by Peardian
Yes, this is true, but I don't imagine map data would take up that much space anyway, especially with a good compression method on a level that basically consists of three tile types.
Gen4 maps are 3D models.

Full 3D models? They look more like a basic layout with a lot of the same model repeated. Honestly, to be realistic all but a few maps in the generation 4 games could be completely represented in 2D (and I suspect they are)

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plushifoxed

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Posted on 06-18-10 03:18:47 AM Link | Quote
Supakitsune
Originally posted by Xkeeper
Originally posted by Supakitsune
Originally posted by Peardian
Yes, this is true, but I don't imagine map data would take up that much space anyway, especially with a good compression method on a level that basically consists of three tile types.
Gen4 maps are 3D models.
Full 3D models? They look more like a basic layout with a lot of the same model repeated. Honestly, to be realistic all but a few maps in the generation 4 games could be completely represented in 2D (and I suspect they are)
Someone created a viewer for them.
They're stored in parts (so that big maps like Mt. Coronet or Mt. Silver don't break things).
The fact that certain events on the map cause the next map section to be loaded is what allows things like tweaking to occur.

I do suspect that elevation data is stored the way it was in Gen 3, though.

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Boing
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Posted on 06-18-10 03:50:31 AM Link | Quote
The collision data itself can probably be compressed very thin, but the graphics would probably take up significantly more space.

Not sure how'd go about storing the collision data in that 3D perspective city though. Probably a variant on the old collision data.
plushifoxed

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Posted on 06-18-10 04:16:24 AM Link | Quote
Supakitsune
Originally posted by Hiryuu
Big update.
"IR" pretty much confirms Pokéwalker compatibility.
I didn't doubt it too much, but you never know with Nintendo... ;;


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Keitaro

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LOVELY ARRANGEMENT. VOLCANO BAKEMEAT
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Posted on 06-24-10 03:33:43 AM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Supakitsune
Originally posted by Hiryuu
Big update.
"IR" pretty much confirms Pokéwalker compatibility.
I didn't doubt it too much, but you never know with NintendoGamefreak... ;;


fixed because Nintendo doesn't make the game. Serious pet peve of mine
plushifoxed

King Yoshi
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Posted on 06-24-10 10:58:42 AM Link | Quote
Supakitsune
Originally posted by Keitaro
Originally posted by Supakitsune
Originally posted by Hiryuu
Big update.
"IR" pretty much confirms Pokéwalker compatibility.
I didn't doubt it too much, but you never know with NintendoGamefreak... ;;
fixed because Nintendo doesn't make the game. Serious pet peve of mine
I always figured that it was practically the same thing.
That's kind of like saying Nintendo didn't make Paper Mario. Technically it was made by a second party, but...

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Hiryuu

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Posted on 06-24-10 06:25:51 PM Link | Quote
Originally posted by Keitaro
Originally posted by Supakitsune
Originally posted by Hiryuu
Big update.
"IR" pretty much confirms Pokéwalker compatibility.
I didn't doubt it too much, but you never know with NintendoGamefreak... ;;


fixed because Nintendo doesn't make the game. Serious pet peve peeve of mine


Fixed. Serious pet peeve of mine.


Hiryuu

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Posted on 06-25-10 06:27:31 PM (last edited by Hiryuu at 06-25-10 03:29 PM) Link | Quote

UPDATE (June 24, 2010):
The latest issue of Nintendo Dream has been released and it provide the bigger and clearer map of Isshu Region. Aside from that, there are more confirmations too. One of these is that they gave us new insights about Zorua and Zoroark's ability: "Illusion". We know that Zorua and Zoroark will transform into another Pokemon when sent into battle, as seen in previous screenshots and videos. However, that's all we have known about the ability. Nintendo Dream had now explained this ability. It stated that Zorua and Zoroark will transform into the Pokemon on the player's second part of his party Pokemon immediately right after you send them out in a battle. Example of this is if you have Kyogre in the second part of your party Pokemon, Zorua and Zoroark will transform into Kyogre immediately when sent out in a battle. As said on the previous information. they will retain their type, the "Dark-type", when they transform; However, their name and appearance (and possibly attacks) will change. In addition to that, they speculated that there will be an airport, theme parks, wind mills, ancient ruins, and blast furnace.

Here are the scans of the latest issue of the Nintendo Dream magazine:
http://heath.shikokusensei.com/rpgland/scans/june23rpgscans03.jpg
http://heath.shikokusensei.com/rpgland/scans/june23rpgscans04.jpg
http://heath.shikokusensei.com/rpgland/scans/june23rpgscans05.jpg
http://heath.shikokusensei.com/rpgland/scans/june23rpgscans06.jpg
http://heath.shikokusensei.com/rpgland/scans/june23rpgscans07.jpg
http://heath.shikokusensei.com/rpgland/scans/june23rpgscans08.jpg
http://heath.shikokusensei.com/rpgland/scans/june23rpgscans09.jpg
http://heath.shikokusensei.com/rpgland/scans/june23rpgscans10.jpg
http://heath.shikokusensei.com/rpgland/scans/june23rpgscans11.jpg

Here's the translation of the scans, take note that the number there denotes the number on the scan (Credits to Sabonea Masukippa of Serebiiforums for the translation):

1. A Blast Furnace? Something that looks like melted iron
A specially shaped building, like a bees nest. Here and there, you can see something that looks like lava, but.... If you look over there at the full map, there's a place with red lava-like building! It's man-made so we wonder if it isn't an institution like a Blast Furnace, where iron is melted down?

2. The on the mouth of a river City with a rising bridge
Text unreadable

3. A place that looks like a Theme Park
Text unreadable

4. The Desert with a Raging Sandstorm
Text unreadable

5. An Airfield?
Is that a runway on the left edge on the map?! We wonder if it's an airfield? Jump on a plane here and enjoy a skyward adventure [please]. Also, just above that there is a building that looks like a tower. Run up the spiral staircase, this is an ancient looking tower.

Translators: Note 1: Wow, an airport!
Note 2: 飛行場 can also be translated (in some contexts) as airport as well as airfield.
Note 3: The spiral staircase is visible on the outside of the building.

6. Two Pinwheels/Windmills?
In the middle of the land where it becomes like a staircase, there are two buildings with the same shape. If you look closely it looks like they have wings attatched, and basically they look like windmills. It looks like quite a relaxing scene, but we wonder if they're doing something like making wind-generated power.

7. The Two-Toned Town
Just a little bit above the centre of the map, there's a slightly strange place. On our left the town is painted brown and on our right the town is painted blue; it's a town of two colours. In the centre, a big, solemn-looking building is visible. That place is going to catch your interest. (Note: that last sentence is very losely translated).

8. Ancient Ruins?
In the top-centre of the map at a place that looks like a rocky mountain with a structure that makes you think of ruins. On the rocky mountain you can see the entrances to many [something] rock cavern looking places. Perhaps the inside is a complicated labrynth?

9. What's in the centre?
Right in the centre of the map there's a lake and at its centre is a large island. If you look carefully at the centre, the edges are notched and it has the appearance of being a man-made bit of land. In the centre you can see a [something] thing, but what is it....? It is a place full of mysteries.

10. An Abandoned Factory?
It's small and difficult to see on the map but if you look reeeeally carefully you can see a broken wall and ceiling. In the screenshots released last month there was a place that looked like an abandoned factory and maybe this isn't it, here? We wonder what kind of Pokemon are here?

11. The Starting Town?
In the lower right of the map a small town is visible. It's like we've seen that blue roof and the path surrounding it before ... Right, it was in one of the first screens that were released! This is the starting point of your adventure, and we predict the family living in this house will be that of the protagonist!

12. Sky Arrow Bridge?
Text not satisfactorily translatable. Basically suggests the bridge to the right of Huin is the Sky Arrow Bridge from the screenshot. Duh.

13. Enourmous Metropolis: Hiun City
Hiun City, lined with Sky-Scrapers. It's dignified appearance remarkably draws your eyes. But, above this town a Ghost Town and an enormous desert spread out. This contrast is really interesting.

Mostly (probably) speculation on the magazine's part, but interesting none the less.

Couple of notes:
1. There's a definite house on the island directly behind the starting town.
2. Hard to tell whether the clouds are covering anything to do with the big white mountains on the right.
3. There's no visible entrance to the black mountains on the lower left (doesn't mean there isn't one though, obviously).
4. They mention nothing about the castle and puddled area just above the windmills.
5. The left most entrance to the blue-white mountains appears to have some sort of netting/criss cross white pattern over it.


There's also a new screenshot in the scan where it shows the nature and stats of Zorua and Zoroark (the scan also confirms that the Red and Blue colored font that indicates the stat's strength and weakness that started on Pokemon HeartGold and SoulSilver remains in Pokemon Black and White). Here are their nature and stats:

Zorua
Gender: Male
Level: 10
Nature: Mild
Stats:
HP: 30
Att: 18
Def: 19
Sp.Att: 24
Sp. Def: 15
Speed: 15

Zoroark
Gender: Female
Level: 25
Nature: Neutral Nature
Stats:
HP: 67
Att: 59
Def: 36
Sp.Att: 69
Sp.Def: 40
Speed: 59

Source of the scans:
http://rpgland.com/
Hiryuu

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Posted on 06-25-10 08:03:26 PM Link | Quote
Oh I've been hearing 'branching storyline' with options that will affect the outcome of whether you're good or evil. This is total rumor mill. Does anyone have confirmation on that?
FPzero
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Posted on 06-25-10 08:10:58 PM Link | Quote
Good or evil? Doubt it, Nintendo wouldn't do something like that with Pokemon. It's not good for the kiddies.

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Hiryuu

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Posted on 06-25-10 08:13:12 PM Link | Quote
Awwww but it'd be so awesome to be part of Team Rocket!

I mean you also have 'light and dark' themes with the ubers in both games. It's a nice throw out there, if nothing else.
ReiNi
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Posted on 06-26-10 03:15:26 AM (last edited by Reimu at 06-26-10 12:16 AM) Link | Quote
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
That's a rumor by someone who also said there would be a Minotauros, so it's very likely it's not true.

Also Steel <- Fire, Water <- Electric, Ghost <- Dark. Though that's probably a coincidence.

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Posted on 06-26-10 03:35:09 AM (last edited by Xkeeper at 06-26-10 12:35 AM) Link | Quote
Nintendo? Allowing the player to be anything less than the greatest hero on the planet, pissing love and justice everywhere?



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